VOGONS


First post, by Armand Karlsen

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I'm currently trying to spec-up a general-purpose Windows 98 SE & DOS machine, but I don't know which way to go for graphics. Which is the more practical option; will a Voodoo 5 card even work with DOS GLide games?

Reply 2 of 16, by appiah4

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dr_st wrote:

As far I know, some (most?) DOS Glide games are hardcoded to Voodoo 2 DLLs.

Most DOS games are actually hardcoded to Voodoo 1 DLLs AFAIK.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 3 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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hardcoded to Voodoo 1 DLLs

And those are CPU speed sensitive.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 4 of 16, by meljor

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Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

😎 🤣

So welcome! And enjoy the ride.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 6 of 16, by JoeCorrado

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meljor wrote:
Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system Step 3: Realizing it can not be […]
Show full quote

Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

😎 🤣

So welcome! And enjoy the ride.

Good Lord, that is EXACTLY what happened. And I have loved every minute of it! I think of it as my retirement plan!

-- Regards, Joe

Expect out of life, that which you put into it.

Reply 7 of 16, by MrSmiley381

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Armand Karlsen wrote:

I'm currently trying to spec-up a general-purpose Windows 98 SE & DOS machine, but I don't know which way to go for graphics. Which is the more practical option; will a Voodoo 5 card even work with DOS GLide games?

I tried doing a full 98SE-only Super Socket 7 machine with a Voodoo 5. Didn't quite hit the mark on performance for some games, so I went and started an Athlon 3000+ system. Slightly better results, but I'm fairly certain the Sound blaster Live 5.1 drivers are cursed to murder OS installations. I get native 3D sound in Diablo II in XP, but 98SE is an absolute mess.

Ultimately, the question is what "general purpose" 98SE and DOS applications are you using? In theory a Voodoo 5 + Voodoo 1 should give you maximum compatibility for Glide support. Other incompatibilities might arise along the way. Alternatively, have a dedicated Voodoo 5 powerhouse and a Voodoo 1 + Voodoo 3/Voodoo 5 FSAA/PowerVR/Alternative unique-platform GPU system. Don't forget all the different dedicated sound card variants available as well!

meljor wrote:
Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system Step 3: Realizing it can not be […]
Show full quote

Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

Yeah, what he said. I wish we had more low profile system solutions though. I'm going to be out of rack space soon.

I spend my days fighting with clunky software so I can afford to spend my evenings fighting with clunky hardware.

Reply 8 of 16, by chinny22

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I would say paring the voodoo 2 with a strong D3d card is best of both worlds, it is a compromise but it may not matter.
I had a V2 SLI + Ti4600 and it played most games pretty well.
Noticed I said "had" also ended up building a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and more PC's. but that's because I caught the bug.

But pairing a voodoo 2 with another card is a good place to start, or any other PCI Voodoo but you'll have to swap the connection to the monitor. some way.

Reply 9 of 16, by dr_st

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MrSmiley381 wrote:

I tried doing a full 98SE-only Super Socket 7 machine with a Voodoo 5.

I have such a system, only with Voodoo 3, which I use for DOS / early 9x games only. Bought this system when it was new.

Given that I have enough modern systems for newer games, would upgrading the Voodoo 3 to Voodoo 5 bring any performance benefit? Or would the K6-II @500MHz bottleneck like crazy?

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 10 of 16, by MrSmiley381

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dr_st wrote:

Given that I have enough modern systems for newer games, would upgrading the Voodoo 3 to Voodoo 5 bring any performance benefit? Or would the K6-II @500MHz bottleneck like crazy?

I've read that the reason you'd use the Voodoo 5 in a machine like that would be to run the 4X FSAA and get a really nice picture in much older games. The example someone used was Grim Fandango. When you run the Voodoo 5 at 4X FSAA the bottleneck becomes its fill rate and the maximum applicable CPU speed goes from 2+ GHz down to ~600 MHz. Aside from that the performance difference is close to negligible if I'm remembering Phil's video on SS7 GPU's correctly.

Anyone can feel free to correct me as necessary since I don't quite have the time to hyperlink and confirm everything.

I spend my days fighting with clunky software so I can afford to spend my evenings fighting with clunky hardware.

Reply 11 of 16, by Armand Karlsen

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meljor wrote:
Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system Step 3: Realizing it can not be […]
Show full quote

Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

😎 🤣

So welcome! And enjoy the ride.

Holy crap, I think my wallet just winced... 😵

That aside, thinking about it again it would probably be a mostly 98SE machine. Most of the Glide games I can remember I'd want to play are actually Windows, it seems; my memory must have gone fuzzy after all these years... I do still have the cards to do Voodoo 5 + Voodoo 2 SLI, but wouldn't games get confused and barf upon seeing multiple GLide cards?

Reply 12 of 16, by MrSmiley381

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Armand Karlsen wrote:

I do still have the cards to do Voodoo 5 + Voodoo 2 SLI, but wouldn't games get confused and barf upon seeing multiple GLide cards?

You might want to take a general look around on here, including at this Voodoo thread. When you combine something like a Voodoo 5 and a Voodoo 2 you can dump the DLL required for the Voodoo 2 in the game directory. As part of the 7-step process mentioned above, you will discover a myriad of solutions to the problem you're trying to solve with a multitude of software options at your disposal. Good luck!

I spend my days fighting with clunky software so I can afford to spend my evenings fighting with clunky hardware.

Reply 13 of 16, by doaks80

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meljor wrote:
Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system Step 3: Realizing it can not be […]
Show full quote

Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

😎 🤣

So welcome! And enjoy the ride.

I've settled on 5 spanning DOS to XP. Although my second "Win98" box for the voodoo5/vortex2 combo is considered optional 😉

k6-3+ 400 / s3 virge DX+voodoo1 / awe32(32mb)
via c3 866 / s3 savage4+voodoo2 sli / audigy1+awe64(8mb)
athlon xp 3200+ / voodoo5 5500 / diamond mx300
pentium4 3400 / geforce fx5950U / audigy2 ZS
core2duo E8500 / radeon HD5850 / x-fi titanium

Reply 14 of 16, by Bige4u

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I have a working P200 system... runs DOS6.22 using a biostar m5ata motherboard, a voodoo3 2000 pci video card, a 1.7gb 4500rpm hdd, a creative sb16 isa sound card, and 64mb edo memory, i can drop the speed down to 90mhz if need be by changing the jumpers while keeping the faster cpu installed, works great for DOS only gaming.

Pentium3 1400s/ Asus Tusl2-c / Kingston 512mb pc133 cl2 / WD 20gb 7200rpm / GeForce3 Ti-500 64mb / Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 SB0100 / 16x dvdrom / 3.5 Floppy / Enermax 420w / Win98se

Reply 15 of 16, by tgagunnman@gmail.com

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I never get on these forums just join this one. I've been collecting since 1992. I have tons of systems and parts of all kinds of things as I upgraded every year. I suggest to build many PC clones if you want to play all the genres of each generational advancement. Nothing like playing the games on the actual hardware. I used to use SCSI raid for everything and kept buying expensive controllers but I would find a different storage solution (I don't care about staying 100% legacy when it comes to storage). I've been buying up a bunch of Promise SATA 150 PCI controllers and using SSD. As they are compatible with all my builds. But if you had to build just one and you wanted it for newer and older DOS games I'd put a VooDoo 1 in it with an awe64 gold, and a Roland SC with a Matrix Millennium 1 or 2 on a Pentium 60 ish. Sure you can get forensic about it pick an even more rare and comparable parts but those parts should be pretty easy to get.

Reply 16 of 16, by Brawndo

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meljor wrote on 2018-10-17, 19:26:
Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system Step 3: Realizing it can not be […]
Show full quote

Step 1: Wanting to build a retro system
Step 2: Thinking it can be all done with only one system
Step 3: Realizing it can not be done with one system
Step 4: Building 2 systems
Step 5: Realizing that it can't also all be done with just 2 systems
Step 6: Become like the rest of us and build wayyy to many systems
Step 7: Become the hunter/hoarder for even more parts because you never know, you might want to use them someday...

😎 🤣

So welcome! And enjoy the ride.

There's way too much truth to this. My first couple of retro PCs exploded into the double digits faster than even I noticed. It's too hard to resist when you can walk into a thrift store and get lucky paying $5 or $10 for a complete tower. How can I not? 🤣