it's just that fpu-heavy quake is about the worst case scenario possible for that chip. mostly integer-based stuff like duke3d will run a lot better.

as seen here, the 233 MMX will give more than 100% better performance: https://thandor.net/benchmark/33

darry wrote on 2020-07-04, 18:02:

Putas wrote on 2020-07-04, 17:00:

matze79 wrote on 2020-07-04, 13:10:

You need at least a Rage Pro Turbo if you want see some fps.

Why?

Because even the Rage Pro Turbo isn't that great in Quake II OpenGL .

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphic- … il-98,64-5.html

I was of course concerned only about the "Turbo" part.

I had a Ati Xpert Play PCI with a 233 MMX, Quake 1 kinda worked. Maybe at 20/25 fps, difficult to remember. Same card as the Xpert Work, but with TV out. I think it was a Rage Pro.
With the usual Ati OpenGL defects , all particles are squarred 😀
Adding a Voodoo1 was a great improvement.

I have a Rage Pro Turbo PCI in my MMX200 PC at the moment and it's playable (20-30fps) in 640x480 OpenGL, it's kind of at Voodoo 1 speeds, there isn't a world of difference. The image quality is very different, there is no mipmapping and texture filtering, it looks more like software rendering than OpenGL. I quite like it, to be honest.

My choice to this card was exactly some old benchmarks which didn't show too much of a difference between a V1 and the Rage Pro, that's why I was so confused when it didn't perform as expected.
But now I am pretty sure it's the CPU bottlenecking the experience, because I just rejumpered the system to OC che CPU, and the game already runs better - seems like I will do rebuild this PC with the other motherboard and MMX233.

The difference with a Voodoo 1 is you can get about 40 fps on this one in Quake, with a light overclocking in a batch file.
I don't think it's possible with an Ati.

In OpenGL and Quake maybe it is not possible to get 40fps with RagePro, but lets see. I get with my AMD K6-2+@350Mhz 30.2fps with glquake, also there is ppquake with 3dnow support, that i would like to get and try. 30fps@timedemo demo1 without any tweaks or overclock with resolution 640x480x16 is ok for card from 1997, OpenGL is not ATi-s best thing and AMD K6 is not fastest for Quake games. Direct3D should work faster and add 3DCiF and DVD playback to Rage Pro/LT/XL cards and you get good combo ones to use in PCI or AGP slot.

Here is older4MB PCI cards in test, also Voodoo card with pentium III.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru& … on.ru/?p%3D3473

Rage Pro AGP, bit faster than PCI version.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=aut … ?page_id%3D1203
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=aut … /?page_id%3D843

RagePro win3x drivers on 5.30 Utility? Intertesting...I will check them.

marxveix wrote on 2021-03-22, 14:34:

In OpenGL and Quake maybe it is not possible to get 40fps with RagePro, but lets see. I get with my AMD K6-2+@350Mhz 30.2fps wit […]
Show full quote

In OpenGL and Quake maybe it is not possible to get 40fps with RagePro, but lets see. I get with my AMD K6-2+@350Mhz 30.2fps with glquake, also there is ppquake with 3dnow support, that i would like to get and try. 30fps@timedemo demo1 without any tweaks or overclock with resolution 640x480x16 is ok for card from 1997, OpenGL is not ATi-s best thing and AMD K6 is not fastest for Quake games. Direct3D should work faster and add 3DCiF and DVD playback to Rage Pro/LT/XL cards and you get good combo ones to use in PCI or AGP slot.

Here is older4MB PCI cards in test, also Voodoo card with pentium III.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru& … on.ru/?p%3D3473

Rage Pro AGP, bit faster than PCI version.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=aut … ?page_id%3D1203
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=aut … /?page_id%3D843

The page has lot of innacuraties:
https://vccollection-ru.translate.goog/?page_ … &_x_tr_hl=en-US

Ati Rage IIc with 5.5ns memory doesn't have 166mhz rated memory, it would be for 6ns memories.
But the much bigger mistake is with 2 memory chip Rage IIc - he didn't mentioned (or know) it is 32-bit version. That's why about 30% lower results.
He incorrectly marked it at bottom as 4/8MB with 64-bit memory bus.
Also, another mistake. -8ns memories doesn't have 113 mhz ("indicates a sampling time of 8 ns, which corresponds to a standard frequency of 113 MHz".)
But 125mhz. 1000/8 = 125.

That page is completly amateur looking, with mistakes and innacuracies on every corner. I just opened one page randomly, and was shocked.
Sorry, but results from such page, cannot be considered to be trustworthy. Dude is marking memory chips by names, by numbers, so it looks pro, but those are empty words, he only put it there from other pages... and he oesn't reveal, two chips means 32-bit memory bus. For me, seems he copy pasted data from other pages, so it looks pro, but doesn't understand it into the deep.

I've got 36fps in GLQuake with an overcloked chinese rage XL PCI on a pmmx 266 (75mhz bus) so I gues that a rage pro can do it better.

well, rage xl should be only die shrunk rage pro, with chip built in less nm, if original clocks 60/80 are pushed up 75/100, it should have similiar if not identical performance. But anyway , 36 fps in GLquake is impressive. Was it 640x480x16? Not 640x400x16 with windows size -2 (health bar, and ammo bar, decrease rendering window, which is adding FPS)

Nothing tweaked, I never do that things because they worsen the experience a lot, only -nosound command line. I think that the main problem of the chinese rage xl is the 32 bits ram bus. And the drivers are the biiiig headache.
Take a look a this Chinese Rage XL PCI mods, improved compatibility and looking for a good overclock. if you like. I've explained there what I've done.

W.x. wrote on 2022-08-27, 20:01:

rage xl should be only die shrunk rage pro, with chip built in less nm, if original clocks 60/80 ...

It is more than that. What makes you think those are the original clocks?

Hoping wrote on 2022-08-27, 19:21:

I've got 36fps in GLQuake with an overcloked chinese rage XL PCI on a pmmx 266 (75mhz bus) so I gues that a rage pro can do it better.

At the moment these are my results for Quake1 and Rage3:
I have 40.3fps @ GLQuake with my ATi Rage XL 8MB AGP - 640x480x16bit timedemo demo1
AMD K6-2+400 system and no overclock at all, only disabled bi-linear filtering for OpenGL.
I am already happy with that speed, i think it is possible to get more out of these Rage cards.

Putas wrote on 2022-08-28, 11:25:

W.x. wrote on 2022-08-27, 20:01:

rage xl should be only die shrunk rage pro, with chip built in less nm, if original clocks 60/80 ...

It is more than that. What makes you think those are the original clocks?

I've already found out, xl with original clocks is faster than rage pro. Made many tests of rage pro/xl/lt pro, but dont have time to compile it and publish it. You are right, xl has higher clocks than 60/80.
I saw 75/75 here https://www.512bit.net/ati/ati_rage_xl.html. From some reason, I remembered 60/80, but it was from 128 VR https://www.512bit.net/ati/ati_rage_128vr.html
it was even 80/60, so I've flipped it. (bad memory 🤣)

but 75/75 it's probably incorrect. I've checked my XL, and it has (80/120) with max OC 91/137
It's definitely fastest card out of Rage , Rage II, Rage Pro and Rage LT Pro. It got also most FPS in all benchmarks I've made from these cards.

Now we are in agreement. I wrote a Rage XL review to put it to rest finally.

Putas wrote on 2022-12-22, 05:35:

Now we are in agreement. I wrote a Rage XL review to put it to rest finally.

And where can we read this?

At vintage3d.org.

Putas wrote on 2022-12-22, 12:03:

At vintage3d.org.

That is your page? I love that page!

appiah4 wrote on 2022-12-22, 14:52:

Putas wrote on 2022-12-22, 12:03:

At vintage3d.org.

That is your page? I love that page!

Yes, thank you. Now to finish something for Christmas...