VOGONS


Voodoo 3 3000 with LCD and DOS games

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First post, by buckeye

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Booting into DOS via Win98SE (not dos window) dos games are being stretched out to fit my 19" LCD resulting
in a lot of "jaggy pixels". Is there a way to smooth things out even a little? Is Univeb applicable here?

I checked my Acer LCD's controls for something that might help, but didn't notice anything off the bat.

Maybe this why some go back to CRT's for dos?

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Reply 1 of 23, by Wolfus

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Most of DOS games was designed for 14-15" monitors. Native resolutions of LCDs make it even worse.
If your display has controls for image size, try to make it smaller. CRT is always better but I understand it is not very convenient to keep it at home...

Reply 2 of 23, by kolderman

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I use a hp 19" and it looks excellent most of the time. I am often surprised at how well dos games look stretched out to 1280x1024 from 300x200 probably, jaggy pixels not to be seen. Even old EGA titles look fine. Maybe try a different lcd.

Reply 3 of 23, by buckeye

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My acer lcd when playing a dos game is set at 720 x 400. The controls don't appear to be able to change this.

Kolderman - what model is that HP you got?

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Reply 6 of 23, by imi

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it really depends on how your LCD is scaling 4:3 resolutions, not all 5:4 LCDs do scale them correctly and stretch them out instead, not much you can do about that with old hardware, would need to get a different monitor that scales correctly.

Reply 7 of 23, by buckeye

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Oetker wrote on 2020-02-17, 20:25:

What's the native resolution and aspect ratio of your lcd? I use a 20" 4:3 1600x1200 display and it's ideal for 320x200 games.

Goes to 1280x 1024 I believe. Don't have the exact model no. I'll get it when I get home.

Been checking on prices for 17" CRT's , uh - dont' think so.

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Reply 8 of 23, by Oetker

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Well a 5:4 1280x1024 display will never display 320x200 properly; 320x200 needs to be stretched to 4:3, not 5:4. And not stretching it but just upscaling it to e.g. 1280x800 will result in a horizontally squashed image.

Even if you have scaling settings in your monitor settings or video card drivers there isn't a way to get that fixed. VESA games that run at 640x480 could be displayed properly if you can somehow set your monitor or video card to keep the aspect ratio. Come to think of it even if there are video cards new enough to offer scaling settings in the drivers, I don't know if those work with VGA and Win98, but almost certainly not with the dos prompt or real dos.

Reply 10 of 23, by foil_fresh

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I have an AOC 24.5" 1080p 240hz monitor with VGA input, and it seems to be very flexible with it's selectable video screen modes.
The pixel reproduction isn't too bad, sure, it's a bit blurry on pixel edges but it's definitely not jagged.

Although I can't independantly choose the size I want and the aspect ratio, the options are:

1:1 (so a 320x200 screen is about the size of a smartphone)
17" 4:3
19" 4:3 (I use this for most windows games and some DOS games)
19" 5:4
19" 16:10
19" 16:9
21.5" 16:9
22" 16:10 (which I use for a lot of DOS games)

There are a few other sizes that are irrelevant/i forgot.

VGA signals can get a really nice refresh rate - I've gone up to 160hz on my 9600XT at 800x600 but the noise from my KVM is too visible, so i put it down to 120hz on the desktop.

I've gone through 3 CRT screens in the last 12 months - Syncmaster 17", Philips 17" and a ProView 17" - the Syncmaster lost it's red color, the Philips makes an incredibly loud high pitches squeal (unbearable to actually use but the color is fine) and the ProView also is missing red. I'm done with CRTs (unless i find NIB or Trinitron... doubt it!).

Reply 11 of 23, by cyclone3d

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Some LCDs have a setting to display the image using the resolution that is input... depending on the monitor, it will make it into a tiny square in the center of the screen.

Personally, I like the built-in scaler in the Dell 19" 1280x1024 LCDs.

I've also got an IBM 20" LCD that works pretty well.

For the real CRT experience though I have a larger LCD that somebody put out to the curb a couple years ago. It's either a 19" or 20" flat screen.

If anybody is in Tucson, AZ or close, my father is trying to sell a 31" 1080i LCD TV that has all the inputs you would ever need.... except SCART of course.

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Reply 12 of 23, by imi

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Oetker wrote on 2020-02-18, 07:38:

Well a 5:4 1280x1024 display will never display 320x200 properly; 320x200 needs to be stretched to 4:3, not 5:4. And not stretching it but just upscaling it to e.g. 1280x800 will result in a horizontally squashed image.

Even if you have scaling settings in your monitor settings or video card drivers there isn't a way to get that fixed. VESA games that run at 640x480 could be displayed properly if you can somehow set your monitor or video card to keep the aspect ratio. Come to think of it even if there are video cards new enough to offer scaling settings in the drivers, I don't know if those work with VGA and Win98, but almost certainly not with the dos prompt or real dos.

well, that's just not true ^^
see: Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today
that's the output from a 386 machine with ET4000, so native 320x200 even though the monitor reads it as 720x400 it is still scaled correctly.
I'm sure there are other 19" monitors that also scale correctly, just need to do some research before.

Reply 13 of 23, by Oetker

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imi wrote on 2020-02-19, 03:34:
well, that's just not true ^^ see: Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today that's the output from a 386 machine with ET4000, so […]
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Oetker wrote on 2020-02-18, 07:38:

Well a 5:4 1280x1024 display will never display 320x200 properly; 320x200 needs to be stretched to 4:3, not 5:4. And not stretching it but just upscaling it to e.g. 1280x800 will result in a horizontally squashed image.

Even if you have scaling settings in your monitor settings or video card drivers there isn't a way to get that fixed. VESA games that run at 640x480 could be displayed properly if you can somehow set your monitor or video card to keep the aspect ratio. Come to think of it even if there are video cards new enough to offer scaling settings in the drivers, I don't know if those work with VGA and Win98, but almost certainly not with the dos prompt or real dos.

well, that's just not true ^^
see: Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today
that's the output from a 386 machine with ET4000, so native 320x200 even though the monitor reads it as 720x400 it is still scaled correctly.
I'm sure there are other 19" monitors that also scale correctly, just need to do some research before.

Oh well I'm glad to be corrected in this regard, I've never seen a monitor that offered this but it's great that it exists!

Reply 15 of 23, by foil_fresh

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kolderman wrote on 2020-02-19, 06:42:

> 19" 4:3 (I use this for most windows games and some DOS games)

What's the native resolution of such a screen?

at my work when we had dell and lenovo 4:3 screens they were usually 1280x1024, a rare few were 1600x1200 which is nice. they were probably bigger ones like 21" dells now that i think about it

Reply 17 of 23, by imi

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yep, I don't think there are any 19" 4:3 screens.

common ones are 15" 1024x768 and 20"/21" 1600x1200
I think there also were some 17" 1024x768, but not very common at all as most of them were 5:4 too.

<15" pretty much everything was 4:3 back then with resolutions ranging from 640x480 - 1024x768

1600x1200 would probably be the ideal resolution for scaling 320x200 as it can manage perfect integer scaling in theory at least with pixels equalling 5x6 actual pixels on screen... that is if the scaler does not do any filtering, but idk of any that don't do at least a little bit.

though I have to say that the scaled image on my 19" looks very good imho and isn't filtered badly at all.

Reply 18 of 23, by foil_fresh

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kolderman wrote on 2020-02-19, 13:04:

Hmm but 1280x1024 is 5:4 not 4:3...

yeah i usually play at 1024x768 so if i did want to use that res i'd choose the 5:4 option

edit: yeah i guess i never really knew that was a 5:4 res 🤣

double edit: yea wtf why do they all get advertised as 4:3? i googled "19" 4:3 monitor" and the lenovo and samsung results both say 4:3 🧠

Reply 19 of 23, by Joseph_Joestar

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DOS games definitively look better on a CRT, but there is a drawback as well. For me, the 60 Hz refresh rate makes it very difficult to look at a CRT monitor for extended periods of time. And it's not much better for games that run at 70 Hz either. No such issues with an LCD screen.

Windows games are a different matter as they run in higher resolutions and also allow you to force a specific refresh rate using tweak utilities like PowerStrip. This allows you to use a 100 Hz refresh on a CRT which is much easier on the eyes.

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