VOGONS


First post, by appiah4

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I will be receiving an allegedly faulty Voodoo Rush in the mail soon, and going by the many detailed photos of the card I inspected beforehand it seems to be a matter of straightening pins on the TMU and the FJR. Assuming I get it to work, what kind of PC does it make sense in?

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Reply 1 of 20, by dionb

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Something pre-Banshee in any event, at a price-point below where Voodoo2 came in. I would suggest looking at compact computers with (crap) onboard or integrated VGA, such that upgrading 2D and 3D made sense, not just adding a Voodoo 1. That narrows it down to 1996 or 1997 systems with either really bad discrete onboard (non-upgradable 1MB RAM etc) or anything integrated, which means SiS 5511 or 5596 chipsets. So a low-profile case with SiS5596 and only one or two PCI slots would be where I would consider using one...

Reply 2 of 20, by appiah4

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Interesting.. I was considering replacing an ATI 3D Rage Pro with this card in a 1997 Pentium MMX 200 build I have , but I'm not even sure if it outperforms the ATI 3D Rage Pro. Regardless, Glide support and S-Video out should make the swap worthwhile for me I suppose.

How about DX4 or 5x86 builds?

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Reply 3 of 20, by chinny22

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Late 486's isn't a terrible idea if trying to push socket 3 as much as possible as it frees up the CPU. but wouldn't want to seriously game 3d titles on that setup.
It should be ok for early glide titles so lets say upto socket 7 depending where you want the bottleneck to be?

Reply 5 of 20, by Putas

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-05, 22:31:

Interesting.. I was considering replacing an ATI 3D Rage Pro with this card in a 1997 Pentium MMX 200 build I have , but I'm not even sure if it outperforms the ATI 3D Rage Pro.

It doesn't.

Reply 6 of 20, by Oetker

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Putas wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:11:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-05, 22:31:

Interesting.. I was considering replacing an ATI 3D Rage Pro with this card in a 1997 Pentium MMX 200 build I have , but I'm not even sure if it outperforms the ATI 3D Rage Pro.

It doesn't.

It might not outperform it, but it'll be way more compatible.

Reply 7 of 20, by appiah4

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-06, 10:38:

A troll PC or none.

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

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Reply 8 of 20, by chinny22

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:37:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-06, 10:38:

A troll PC or none.

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

+1 love a troll

Reply 9 of 20, by Doornkaat

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Voodoo Rush cards are a bit hit or miss: there are two or three different 2D chips depending on how you count (AT25/AT3D, MX86251), multiple layouts including dual planar ones, 4mb, 6mb and 8mb versions and different VRAM speeds plus a whole lot of drivers clocking the chips at different speeds. That's why some cards perform better and some worse. Later drivers often overclock the card but not all cards can handle that.

The advantage of a Voodoo Rush over a Voodoo Graphics is the triangle setup implementation which will offload work from the CPU. However with faster CPUs this becomes a disadvantage since fast CPUs perform those calculations faster than the Rush. I would say the Rush is best suited for fifth gen CPUs, especially AMD K5/K6 or Cyrix 6x86 and slow Pentiums. A 486 is probably going to be too slow to really profit.
But then again does it make too much sense to use those CPUs in early 3D gaming systems? Personally I wouldn't use a DX4 or 5x86
Any Rush is a cool card for being a great example of the Wild West of 90s PC gaming but if you want your gaming build to be reliable and performant for a hassle free nostalgia experience I'd go with a Voodoo Graphics and a 2D card. So I would argue wether the card makes sense in your build is 100% up to you. 😉

Reply 10 of 20, by dionb

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:37:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-06, 10:38:

A troll PC or none.

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

Quantum Bigfoot.
Some awful sound card (CS4235... or maybe something based on Analog Devices Echo) - or maybe an IBM mWave sound/modem DSP combo.
Cherry MY ('prodding a wet newspaper') switch mechanical keyboard.
Realtek RTL8129 2-chip 100MbE decelerator. Or a SiS-900 with default XP drivers (that always reported the same MAC address, causing havoc on LANs)

Reply 11 of 20, by cyclone3d

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DON'T use an MY switch based keyboard unless you already have one laying around waiting to be gotten rid of.

I tried a Rush card back when they were new. I took it back to the store a couple days later and got a Banshee instead. Then I got a Voodoo 3 not too long after that.

My idea of a Rush troll PC would be something with the best stuff from that period and a case with a huge 3dfx logo on the side and maybe some other 3dfx themed stuff on the case, desktop wallpaper, etc.

Then you have the Rush installed so when people go to play it, that are like... #%$%$&%^** this is crap and then you tell them it has a Voodoo Rush in it and then you have another setup with the same hardware in a plain case except for the video card, which you have dual V2 12MB, a Voodoo 3 3000 or 3500, or Voodoo 5 5500 installed so they can then be wow'd at the awesomeness.

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Reply 12 of 20, by appiah4

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dionb wrote on 2020-05-06, 12:37:
Quantum Bigfoot. Some awful sound card (CS4235... or maybe something based on Analog Devices Echo) - or maybe an IBM mWave sound […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:37:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-06, 10:38:

A troll PC or none.

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

Quantum Bigfoot.
Some awful sound card (CS4235... or maybe something based on Analog Devices Echo) - or maybe an IBM mWave sound/modem DSP combo.
Cherry MY ('prodding a wet newspaper') switch mechanical keyboard.
Realtek RTL8129 2-chip 100MbE decelerator. Or a SiS-900 with default XP drivers (that always reported the same MAC address, causing havoc on LANs)

Quantum Bigfoot - yeah I had one of those in my P133, I'll hunt one down.
CX4235 - no, I can use a shit card here but not a broken one. I was leaning more towards a noisy card with a mediocre FM Synth, an ALS100+ or 82C931 maybe?
The Realtek is a done deal.
Maybe a Creative Infra CD-ROM?

What CPU though? 6x86 P150+ maybe?

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 13 of 20, by dionb

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-06, 13:32:

DON'T use an MY switch based keyboard unless you already have one laying around waiting to be gotten rid of.

Shhh! Maybe I was trying to offload mine 😉
(that said, they have some beautiful keycaps, just a shame about everything else about the G81-3000)

My idea of a Rush troll PC would be something with the best stuff from that period and a case with a huge 3dfx logo on the side and maybe some other 3dfx themed stuff on the case, desktop wallpaper, etc.

Then you have the Rush installed so when people go to play it, that are like... #%$%$&%^** this is crap and then you tell them it has a Voodoo Rush in it and then you have another setup with the same hardware in a plain case except for the video card, which you have dual V2 12MB, a Voodoo 3 3000 or 3500, or Voodoo 5 5500 installed so they can then be wow'd at the awesomeness.

True - then again you could do that with S3 Virge '3D' just as well.

appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 14:05:

[...]

Quantum Bigfoot - yeah I had one of those in my P133, I'll hunt one down.
CX4235 - no, I can use a shit card here but not a broken one. I was leaning more towards a noisy card with a mediocre FM Synth, an ALS100+ or 82C931 maybe?

The latter two are too common and boring IMHO. Crap without the added bonus of rarity. Maybe you could look for a card from a really good vendor with a really awful chip. Terratec Promedia Base-1 maybe: slick black PCB, gold-covered backplate and connectors. And a single, awful AD1816AJS

What CPU though? 6x86 P150+ maybe?

Something that promised a lot but totally failed to deliver and contemporary with a Voodoo Rush... that has to be a cacheless Celeron Covington 😜

Reply 14 of 20, by appiah4

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Promedia Base-1 is quite a good choice indeed 😁

I have a Celeron 300 but I can't remember if it's the 300A model or not..

EDIT: I just checked, it's a 300 without cache. Not a bad idea, but I guess having an AGP slot makes it eligible for a worse card like the SiS AGP chipsets or something..

Last edited by appiah4 on 2020-05-07, 10:42. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 20, by Doornkaat

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:37:

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

-Motherboard with Via Aladdin IV aka TXPro* - supports up to 512MB fully cached RAM** plus integrated Tag RAM bits that will help with overclocking***.
-Oh, and why not use one of those Cyrix 6x86MX CPUs, maybe the P233+? Yeah, dude it’s totally just as fast as a 233MHz Pentium CPU****.
-Terratec Promedia Base-1 fits the bill perfectly. Sound Blaster (Pro 2) and General MIDI compatible*****.

The nice thing about this configuration is it still makes sense: It looks good on paper. It’s not just random crappy parts thrown together. The TXPro has a 2.5 PCI bus clock divider so you can run a P233+ @83MHz FSB without overclocking the PCI bus. The Promedia Base-1 will produce sounds in games of that era. The Rush will somewhat mask the 6x86MX’s weak FPU. The components match each other in price and performance. A preassembled system like this might have been sold at computer shops at some point.
It’s just that many of the naming schemes suggest much better components than what you’re actually getting. It’s not a high performer and it has a limited upgrade path.

*not to be confused with Intel 430TX ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
**IF your motherboard vendor decided to go fort a 11bit Tag RAM instead of a cheap 8bit part with this budget oriented chipset ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
***but your motherboard vendor probably didn't implement that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
****more or less, depending on application. probably less.
*****”compatible” does not necessarily mean “good at it”.

Reply 16 of 20, by appiah4

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Doornkaat wrote on 2020-05-07, 09:17:
-Motherboard with Via Aladdin IV aka TXPro* - supports up to 512MB fully cached RAM** plus integrated Tag RAM bits that will hel […]
Show full quote
appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-06, 11:37:

Not a bad idea! What else would go into a Voodoo Rush troll PC though?

-Motherboard with Via Aladdin IV aka TXPro* - supports up to 512MB fully cached RAM** plus integrated Tag RAM bits that will help with overclocking***.
-Oh, and why not use one of those Cyrix 6x86MX CPUs, maybe the P233+? Yeah, dude it’s totally just as fast as a 233MHz Pentium CPU****.
-Terratec Promedia Base-1 fits the bill perfectly. Sound Blaster (Pro 2) and General MIDI compatible*****.

The nice thing about this configuration is it still makes sense: It looks good on paper. It’s not just random crappy parts thrown together. The TXPro has a 2.5 PCI bus clock divider so you can run a P233+ @83MHz FSB without overclocking the PCI bus. The Promedia Base-1 will produce sounds in games of that era. The Rush will somewhat mask the 6x86MX’s weak FPU. The components match each other in price and performance. A preassembled system like this might have been sold at computer shops at some point.
It’s just that many of the naming schemes suggest much better components than what you’re actually getting. It’s not a high performer and it has a limited upgrade path.

*not to be confused with Intel 430TX ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
**IF your motherboard vendor decided to go fort a 11bit Tag RAM instead of a cheap 8bit part with this budget oriented chipset ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
***but your motherboard vendor probably didn't implement that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
****more or less, depending on application. probably less.
*****”compatible” does not necessarily mean “good at it”.

You know what, I have just the right hardware for this setup, except the Base-1.. But how about an OPTi931 (not nearly as broken but it still sounds pretty terrible) until I acquire a Base-1?

Cyrix-IBM-6x86-MX-PR233.jpg PCChips-M560-TG.jpg Typhoon-LCKMOSND931.jpg

I will actually build this setup at some point, possinly in a moden ATX case 😁

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Reply 18 of 20, by appiah4

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austinham wrote on 2020-05-07, 13:47:

Most voodoo Rush cards had a composite AV output right? So why not a system plugged into a TV?

Yeah, this also has S-Video out, one of the reasons I considered it for my 1997 build - recording from S-Video..

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Reply 19 of 20, by austinham

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-07, 14:40:
austinham wrote on 2020-05-07, 13:47:

Most voodoo Rush cards had a composite AV output right? So why not a system plugged into a TV?

Yeah, this also has S-Video out, one of the reasons I considered it for my 1997 build - recording from S-Video..

That sounds like a good idea, for 2d games and some early 3D games the rush can handle.