Repo Man11 wrote on 2020-09-03, 02:23:

Having revived my 8KRA2+, I'm happy to have a solid Socket A system running Windows XP. I'd like to find a better AGP card than the Radeon 9200 I have in it now, but the selection on Ebay is pretty depressing, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has tried one of these cards from AliExpress?: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000474479111 … 8%2315614%23600

Or one of these 7600 GT cards: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000121612768 … 2%2315392%23457

I can't speak about those Ali Express options, quality wise, but used Geforce 6800 GS, Geforce7600GT and Radeon 1600 Pro AGP cards are easy to find for less than 70 US$ (sometimes less than 50 $US ) shipped on a certain auction site . The Ali Express ones do not seem like particularly good deals to me .

266MHz is very low for a 7600, don't expect regular 7600 performance from it

I think it's far better to look for a card on ebay or locally from a known brand

SPBHM wrote on 2020-09-03, 03:17:

266MHz is very low for a 7600, don't expect regular 7600 performance from it

I think it's far better to look for a card on ebay or locally from a known brand

That's a good point that I had not even bothered checking . Normal clock is supposed to be 560 MHz for GPU and 1400 MHz effective (700MHz actual) for RAM , according to https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-7600-gt.c152

So at least that Ali Express 7600GT is essentially landfill filler .

EDIT : I know I keep repeating this to the point where I may almost sound like I have some vested interest (I do not, if anything I am actually encouraging people to bid against me), but I have had really good success with Central and Eastern European vendors (Hungary, Russia, Poland, for example, in no particular order). Prices were good and items were exactly as described . Shipping to Canada took a long time (distance and COVID-19 delays being factors), but that was to be expected . For some reason, when I need something retro and don't mind waiting, there often seems to be nice product in that part of the world and often much cheaper than in North America . I wonder if there are some large-scale recycling operations going in those places or if there is some other reason .

I don't see major problems to get similar cards locally for a decent price. Or at least in states. They aren't rare.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-09-03, 04:28:

I don't see major problems to get similar cards locally for a decent price. Or at least in states. They aren't rare.

The OP is in the US, so he would certainly get better shipping rates from the US to the US than I do from the US to Canada, so the price advantage of the cheaper Central/Eastern European cards may not be so significant (maybe even non-existent) to him .

At any rate, the point is that those Ali Express cards do not seem to be worth it .

What kind of card(s) were you considering specifically? I have about 150 AGP cards - no use for almost all of them. I keep a handful in retro rigs, the rest are in storage gathering dust.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-09-03, 04:28:

I don't see major problems to get similar cards locally for a decent price. Or at least in states. They aren't rare.

I check the local Craigslist daily (sometimes several times a day) for computer hardware, and the listings for anything older than about 2010 are very nearly non existent. On weekends, when I have time to drive and would be willing to put in the long drive for something hard to find, I will expand the search to include all of the San Francisco Bay Area - but listings for old hardware are still, very, very rare. And all of the major thrift stores in this area have policies against selling computers or parts for the same.

darry wrote on 2020-09-03, 03:50:

That's a good point that I had not even bothered checking . Normal clock is supposed to be 560 MHz for GPU and 1400 MHz effectiv […]
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SPBHM wrote on 2020-09-03, 03:17:

266MHz is very low for a 7600, don't expect regular 7600 performance from it

I think it's far better to look for a card on ebay or locally from a known brand

That's a good point that I had not even bothered checking . Normal clock is supposed to be 560 MHz for GPU and 1400 MHz effective (700MHz actual) for RAM , according to https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-7600-gt.c152

So at least that Ali Express 7600GT is essentially landfill filler .

EDIT : I know I keep repeating this to the point where I may almost sound like I have some vested interest (I do not, if anything I am actually encouraging people to bid against me), but I have had really good success with Central and Eastern European vendors (Hungary, Russia, Poland, for example, in no particular order). Prices were good and items were exactly as described . Shipping to Canada took a long time (distance and COVID-19 delays being factors), but that was to be expected . For some reason, when I need something retro and don't mind waiting, there often seems to be nice product in that part of the world and often much cheaper than in North America . I wonder if there are some large-scale recycling operations going in those places or if there is some other reason .

Yep, I ended up buying a 6800 GS from a guy in Russia for $50.00 shipping included. I had originally dismissed the idea of buying from such a distant place, but that was by far the best deal I could find.

I'm looking forward to the Chinese discovering the vintage hardware market so they'll start releasing limited runs of once popular video cards which will both make people like me happy, and ruin the day of price gougers.

Repo Man11 wrote on 2020-09-03, 12:40:

darry wrote on 2020-09-03, 03:50:

That's a good point that I had not even bothered checking . Normal clock is supposed to be 560 MHz for GPU and 1400 MHz effectiv […]
Show full quote

SPBHM wrote on 2020-09-03, 03:17:

266MHz is very low for a 7600, don't expect regular 7600 performance from it

I think it's far better to look for a card on ebay or locally from a known brand

That's a good point that I had not even bothered checking . Normal clock is supposed to be 560 MHz for GPU and 1400 MHz effective (700MHz actual) for RAM , according to https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-7600-gt.c152

So at least that Ali Express 7600GT is essentially landfill filler .

EDIT : I know I keep repeating this to the point where I may almost sound like I have some vested interest (I do not, if anything I am actually encouraging people to bid against me), but I have had really good success with Central and Eastern European vendors (Hungary, Russia, Poland, for example, in no particular order). Prices were good and items were exactly as described . Shipping to Canada took a long time (distance and COVID-19 delays being factors), but that was to be expected . For some reason, when I need something retro and don't mind waiting, there often seems to be nice product in that part of the world and often much cheaper than in North America . I wonder if there are some large-scale recycling operations going in those places or if there is some other reason .

Yep, I ended up buying a 6800 GS from a guy in Russia for $50.00 shipping included. I had originally dismissed the idea of buying from such a distant place, but that was by far the best deal I could find.

I'm looking forward to the Chinese discovering the vintage hardware market so they'll start releasing limited runs of once popular video cards which will both make people like me happy, and ruin the day of price gougers.

I hope that 6800GS works out well for you .

There's already a lot of retro oriented new and recycled stuff coming out of China . The cards you saw an ALI Express are attempts at capitalizing on the retro market, but not very good ones . I heard that some of the retro oriented "industrial" motherboards from China are decent options, though . Once FPGA tech gets fast enough (may already be the case for some cards ), an FPGA re-creation of some classic video cards might happen . An FPGA based Voodoo card would be nice . An FPGA based CGA card that can output RGBI, composite and analogue RGB or DVI (with simulated composite colour artifacting) might be nice too .

darry wrote on 2020-09-03, 13:49:

I heard that some of the retro oriented "industrial" motherboards from China are decent options, though .

I supplied a couple of Vogons members here in the U.S. with a Socket 370 board for testing from Alibaba. It's a Chinese rip off of the Gigabyte GA-6VTXE-A (minus the game port and maybe the GA-6VXC7-4X-P?). So close in fact that the GA-6VTXE-A BIOS works with the board. I did find the BIOS that ships with this board does show slightly better overall performance, so I flashed it back. It goes under the hilarious name of "Banana Digital" or at least that is how the driver CD is labeled. Vogons member "BeginnerGuy" did a recent vintage PC build Youtube video with said motherboard. I kept one myself and can say I am fairly pleased with its overall performance. I was expecting a lot less tbh. One negative aspect of the board is the BIOS has options for on-board audio DOS compatibility which flat-out does not work properly. I used a Sound Blaster Live! Platinum sound card bundle with my build so this was irrelevant to me.

actually, did anyone here buy one of those 7600s from aliexpress? I'm curious if it can overclock to regular 7600 levels at least

liqmat wrote on 2020-09-03, 14:41:

darry wrote on 2020-09-03, 13:49:

I heard that some of the retro oriented "industrial" motherboards from China are decent options, though .

I supplied a couple of Vogons members here in the U.S. with a Socket 370 board for testing from Alibaba. It's a Chinese rip off of the Gigabyte GA-6VTXE-A (minus the game port and maybe the GA-6VXC7-4X-P?). So close in fact that the GA-6VTXE-A BIOS works with the board. I did find the BIOS that ships with this board does show slightly better overall performance, so I flashed it back. It goes under the hilarious name of "Banana Digital" or at least that is how the driver CD is labeled. Vogons member "BeginnerGuy" did a recent vintage PC build Youtube video with said motherboard. I kept one myself and can say I am fairly pleased with its overall performance. I was expecting a lot less tbh. One negative aspect of the board is the BIOS has options for on-board audio DOS compatibility which flat-out does not work properly. I used a Sound Blaster Live! Platinum sound card bundle with my build so this was irrelevant to me.

The GA-6VTXE, when it was current tech, was actually my last board with an ISA slot . I had my GUS PnP and a Voodoo 3 in it. It was my "legacy" setup in the early 2000s .

SPBHM wrote on 2020-09-03, 14:47:

actually, did anyone here buy one of those 7600s from aliexpress? I'm curious if it can overclock to regular 7600 levels at least

My guess would be that the GPU core could handle it, but that the RAM won't . They probably cheaped out and used slow RAM, so there was no point in clocking the GPU any faster since it was hobbled by the lack of RAM bandwidth .

They use DDR2 on 7600GT and most likely it's RAM from/for memory sticks.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-09-03, 17:04:

They use DDR2 on 7600GT and most likely it's RAM from/for memory sticks.

Indeed, it would make sense that they used PC2-4200 (DDR2-533) that are probably in very low demand and thus likely extremely cheap .