VOGONS


S3 Vision 968 VLB replica

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Reply 21 of 59, by Anonymous Coward

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matze79 wrote on 2020-09-20, 20:16:

Please make VLB Virge!

I second this.

The only Trio64V+ card for VLB that I am aware of is the STB PowerGraph 64 Video. At least one member on VOGONS has one, but like you said it's possible that it's just a regular Trio64 card with an IC swap.

I think one other company made a VLB card with 64V+, but I forget who. It may have been Diamond. In any case, I have never seen one for sale.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 22 of 59, by Madao

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Trio64 card can't convert to ViRGe, to much difference on pinout. Only Trio64V+ in Trio64-compatible-mode can this.

You're right, STB PowerGraph 64 Video is a Trio64V+ Video card. I hope, i found good pictures of him for researching of SAUP-decoder-ciruit.
I hope, it runs not in trio64-compatible-mode.

I must show my computer at current state.

Data:
486DX2-66
8x 4MB FPM 30 pin memory. (32MB ), actually 16MB, keep boot up time short (for debugging ist memory ticking too loong and make me isane 🤣 )
Advanced Integration Research 486UL Motherboard with UMC480 chipset (bad memory performance)
NE2000T-1 (orginal Novell) Network-card with XT-IDE-bios (386-mode) instead NE2000 Boot-ROM.
Creative Soundblaster16 CT2290
Hameg Ho80 (GPIB Adapter based NEC µPD7210 , it is important for my main hobby, test equipiment gears)
VLB Multi-IO-Card, someone with Winbond controller, fast PIO Mode 4.
Harddisk: Quantum Fireball 1.6A (Win95.0) or WD 644a (6,4GB, Win 3.1)

Case: Highscreen kompakt Serie II, hood-case is not missed. 😉

I haven't paid for this hardware, most was gift / dumpster diving. Motherboard and CPU are in my hand over since 20 years ago.

IMG_20200921_180247.jpg
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Speedsys result with AIR 486UL Motherboard, very disappointed performance, a 386-chipset. *shrugs*

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Greetings
matt

Reply 23 of 59, by Tiido

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Very awesome stuff, good luck ~

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 24 of 59, by matze79

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Imagine Virge on VL .
S3D Support in Games.
It would be the only VLB Card with D3D and S3D.

I bet this would be a cool Project.
Making a Concurrent for Creative 3D Blaster VLB

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 25 of 59, by cyclone3d

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I am one person who has the STB card. How zoomed in do you want the pics? I can also take some backlit pics if that would help with seeing the traces inside the board.

I'll put the pictures on my Google Drive so you can get the full resolution pictures instead of the crap compressed pictures.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 26 of 59, by cyclone3d

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Here are the pics - forum compresses a ton so don't be surprised if they look crappy on here:

STB_PG_64V_VLB_front.jpg
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STB_PG_64V_VLB_back.jpg
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And the Google Drive link to both the 100% jpegs and the full size 600dpi PNGs:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OESRI … HxQ?usp=sharing

If the stickers on the back are in the way, let me know and I'll remove them, take another scan and then put them back on.. probably in a different place.

Yay for my Microtek ScanMaker 9800XL tabloid sized CCD scanner.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 27 of 59, by Madao

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Thanks !

PIcture resolution is more than good for researching of SAUP decoder.
But now i have a bad feeling: Trio64 compatible mode.
I found only one SAUP decoder (74F260, 2x 5-input NOR )

Pleas wait, i'll decoding config resistor strap. Then i can make: Virge VL based STB card or new (minimal) draft.

Layout-style of STB card is in most part similar with my 968VL-card: two inner layer is power-plane, while visible layer is signal-layer. Good to research. I have here a Miro twin 44SV, impossible to tracking of trace. (a double Vision968 card , very very crazy layout, 8 layer.)

Greetings
matt

Last edited by Madao on 2020-09-22, 17:46. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 28 of 59, by Madao

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I make now a decision: I puplish gerber file with CSV file and instruction for make of card to free usage, no commercial.

Filename
968VL_001_vogons.zip
File size
4.38 MiB
Downloads
40 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Of coruse, your risk and no right over full support from me, you can ask me always, if you want know someone or need little help. I can build him for other people, but not cheap (my time is limited). I am not sure, i am allowed make this offer.

Searchword for S3 Vision968 chip: 86c968-p , TVP3026 is a bit much harder to find, despite same search word.
Move your finger from 135Mhz -TVP3026 away.

I can sell TMS55161 for fair price, i have here over 200 piece NOS VRAM, if you don't find it. Foregone better chinese supplier for parts, he sell me 5x TMS55160 and cancels him later.

Have luck with my project. *thumps*

I'll start new topic about ViRGE VLB card, soon.

Greetings
Matt

Last edited by Madao on 2020-09-22, 17:47. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 30 of 59, by mkarcher

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Madao wrote on 2020-09-22, 03:29:

PIcture resolution is more than good for researching of SAUP decoder.
But now i have a bad feeling: Trio64 compatible mode.
I found only one SAUP decoder (74F260, 2x 5-input NOR )

While this is right, the chip is still most likely operating in LPB mode: You can trace out pin 50 of the Trio64V+ to be connected to the trace that snakes between the RAS/CAS termination resistors R37-R40, and finally leads to the via right of the VL slot. You can follow the trace on the "solder side" to lead up to another via which is then connected to VL pin A30 (address 30) on the component side again. So SAUP2 == A30, without any further decoding. So for normal addressing, SAUP2 is always zero, which means you can't reach "register/port access". I can't find out what to make out of this (the registers/ports must be accessible without going to 1GB), but I guess that SAUP2 is enabling the memory mapped registers which you get at MMIOBASE + 16MB in PCI configurations. On this card, memory mapped registers will be above 1GB then.

Some of the NOR pins are obviously wired: Pins 1-3 of the NOR gate are connected to address pins A23, A24 and A25. A26 and A29 go beneath the 74F260 chip. It would make sense to have them connected to pins 12 and 13. It's interesting that A27, A28 and A31 are not decoded at all. The output of the decode (1 only if all inputs are zero) is on pin 5 of the NOR gate, and the trace from pin 5, winding around pin 6 is likely the one connected to the via above pin 10, which goes through a via to a place benath the Trio64V+ that is suspiciously near to pin 25, so a connection to SAUP1 is very likely. This means that the card decodes the range 0..127MB (using A2..A26); mirrors of the video memory at A0000h is thus expected to appear at 080A0000h (128MB + x), 100A0000h (256MB + x) and 180A0000h (384MB + x). Interestingly, A27 is decoded, so no mirror images at 512MB, 640MB, 768MB and 896MB. If someone has an idea which conflict they are avoiding by keeping that memory range clean, I am interested in ideas. I don't think it's the Weitek 4167 interface area, as that area starts at 3GB.

The trace coming from the top and and entering the area beneat the 74F260 is likely connected to the via beneath that chip which is connected to a trace that connects to another via near the drilled hole and connects to C32/R21. In that case, it is unrelated to adressing. For the second NOR gate in the 74F260, I see three inputs connected with a thick trace (trace configuration for power traces, so very likely GND), so the second NOR gate has at most two inputs in use, the ones on pin 8 and the one on pin 4. Maybe the second NOR gate is completely unused after all.

Reply 31 of 59, by matze79

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Whats your mother language ? Madao is chinese ? maybe japanese ?

your english looks good to me, but i`m also not native English Speaker.

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 32 of 59, by Madao

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Hello mrkarcher

New topic about Virge VL, you'll finding all result. Yes, your text is same with my result.
S3 ViRGE VLB project (or " Making a Concurrent for Creative 3D Blaster VLB" )

german is my mother language, not too good.

Greetings
matt

Reply 33 of 59, by Madao

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Next version: 968VL_002, third edition. Of coruse, it is puplished for free usage, no commercial.

Filename
968VL_002_vogons.zip
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2.47 MiB
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41 downloads
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Only optical clean up and correction of one wrong footprint (78L05 footprint was wrong), no change about electronic ciruit.

Greetings
matt

EDIT: Added of drawing from bracket for 968VL . File with 01.pdf is minor changed, because i am not sure with bracket_968VL.pdf and good fitting in all case. I have put it into ATX-Case and i see air gap.

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bracket_968VL.pdf
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bracket_968VL_01.pdf
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EDIT²: Added improvement CSV-file (minor change of compoment value, few Resistor value was wrong, one capacitor is changed from 10µF to 47µF ,)

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Last edited by Madao on 2020-10-20, 18:01. Edited 5 times in total.

Reply 34 of 59, by Madao

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Attention!!!!

Pleas delete Gerber file with date 24.09.2020, it has wrong marking "F126" on U31, F125 is correct.
If your PCB is already produced: don't be worry, ignore "F126" Marking and place it on U31 with 74F125.

Gerber file in last post is already replaced.

Sorry!!

matt

Reply 35 of 59, by TheMobRules

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This is an awesome project, thanks Madao for your effort and for making your design public.

I was interested in building one of these cards myself, but finding stock of the Vision968 chip seems to be quite difficult. I was following a seller on eBay that had like 14 chips available but they got sold all at once yesterday! Looks like someone really loves obsolete S3 chips 😒

Does anyone have a reliable source for these chips? UTSource lists them but they have just confirmed to me they have no stock, in fact stupidly waiting for their reply is what made me miss the eBay listing! Their "Inquiry" option is useless, they always respond that there is no stock 😠

I do have a couple of 968 PCI cards but cannibalizing them for chips is not in my plans...

Reply 36 of 59, by shock__

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TheMobRules wrote on 2020-09-29, 17:43:

I was interested in building one of these cards myself, but finding stock of the Vision968 chip seems to be quite difficult. I was following a seller on eBay that had like 14 chips available but they got sold all at once yesterday! Looks like someone really loves obsolete S3 chips 😒

Does anyone have a reliable source for these chips? UTSource lists them but they have just confirmed to me they have no stock, in fact stupidly waiting for their reply is what made me miss the eBay listing! Their "Inquiry" option is useless, they always respond that there is no stock 😠

Those 14 chips were bought by Madao - there's currently a mass order planned on the german dosforum 😉

Had the same experience with UTSource I'm afraid. Might possibly be worth a shot to check with various american/chinese chip brokers - maybe those can help out?

While not the ideal approach and yielding a high risk, maybe recycling 968 PCI cards is an option? Occasionally those turn up for cheap (~$40).

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

[Z?]

Reply 37 of 59, by cyclone3d

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The 968 PCI cards I see on eBay right now are going for around $25 -$40.

That being said, I would probably wait to see if we get a VLB Virge working.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 39 of 59, by The Serpent Rider

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That depends on how much VRAM they have. 4 Mb tend to go higher. With all that VRAM and DAC hassle, it's more practical to replicate original S3 Trio64 for 486. Unless you really want high refresh rate from 220-250 Mhz external DAC.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me