VOGONS


Reply 80 of 106, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Kahenraz wrote on 2021-12-15, 22:48:

I think a better question would be what would they be useful for? Broadcast TV is all digital and there are lots of better capture cards for cheap.

While I would tend to agree, generally speaking. There are still people using ATI video card with analogue input for things like digitizing (S)VHS tapes, LaserDisc (LD), Hi8, Betamax, etc

AFAICR, the filtering capabilities of certain ATI Rage Theater variant based cards and accompanying software were (are?) still sought after in some scenarios. Some specific standalone DVD recorders are also sought after for similar reasons (including the ability to deal with damaged, multi-generation or out-of-spec analogue video tape recordings) .

Pro-grade analogue capture gear is great for "clean" analogue source, but using such gear with consumer grade sources can be problematic without a time-base corrector, for example (try finding an affordable one of those these days).

A lot of info is available on the subject here http://www.digitalfaq.com/

Reply 81 of 106, by NJRoadfan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Yeah, that's exactly why I was asking. AGP era hardware isn't going to last forever and the vast majority of AIW cards out there are AGP. The PCIe AIW cards aren't very common.

Reply 82 of 106, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
NJRoadfan wrote on 2021-12-16, 00:03:

Yeah, that's exactly why I was asking. AGP era hardware isn't going to last forever and the vast majority of AIW cards out there are AGP. The PCIe AIW cards aren't very common.

There was a Radeon 7500 based All-in-Wonder VE PCI card released at some point . https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/all-in- … n-7500-ve.c3651

I actually bought one new, but decided to return it in the end . I don' recall the exact reason with certainty, but it may have been that capture functionality only worked when the card was set as primary (my memory could be wrong about that).

EDIT: I use one of these https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/612957 … Bit_HD_and.html along with one of these https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400818 … x_Breakout.html .

Also available in PCI Express (Kona LHE) of which I also have one unit . Both versions also work under Windows (including Windows 10 x64, even if official support ended with Windows 7, AFAICR).

They are were (and hopefully still are) inexpensive on the usual auction site and work very well .

Reply 83 of 106, by scheiss_freak

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

For a headless build I'm currently working on, I did not want to leave the bandwidth of the AGP port unused. But when looking for information online about using the AGP port for anything else than a graphics card you won't find much, except between the lines of this thread maybe. In most other forums when people have been asking about it, they'd be misdirected by some troll with an answer somewhat like "That's not possible because - you know - AGP stands for Accelerated GRAPHICS Port" So I had to search for information elsewhere. And I found some in the AGP Wikipedia article:

An AGP bus is a superset of a 66 MHz conventional PCI bus and, immediately after reset, follows the same protocol.

Now that’s some information I was looking for. Further investigations also lead me to this thread. But as nobody seems to have built the adapter I'm after, I began to tackle it myself. I usually prefer to build prototypes before designing and ordering PCBs so I also chose to try the manual way first in this case. PCI and AGP riser cards were quickly sourced and as soon as I got them the port of the AGP riser was ripped off and wired straight to the PCI riser according to the AGP and PCI specs. After finishing the adapter I noticed that I didn’t have a PCI graphics card at hand and I therefore had to test it blindfolded. So I plugged in an HP NC370T PCI-X Gigabit Ethernet card into the AGP port of my testbed, fired it up and tried to SSH into it. And it worked. Just like that. I still can’t really excite myself about it, as it was just too easy. Usually stuff like that never works on the first try.

IMG_5422.JPG
Filename
IMG_5422.JPG
File size
1.53 MiB
Views
250 views
File comment
Handbuilt AGP to PCI Prototype
File license
CC-BY-4.0
IMG_5426.JPG
Filename
IMG_5426.JPG
File size
1.59 MiB
Views
250 views
File comment
2820SA connected to AGP (Bus:01)
File license
CC-BY-4.0

After the handbuilt prototype proved that an adapter of this kind is working I started to design a PCB according the AGP spec for impedance and length matching. The PCBs are now finally in and work really well. So far any network card I’ve tried worked flawlessly. Compatibility with SATA RAID cards seems to be more problematic. Of all the RAID controllers I’ve tried, only the Adaptec 2820/2420SA works well enough on the AGP to be usable. If the connected card and the underlying system have the capabilities the full 32bit 66 MHz PCI bandwidth of ~250 MB/s can be achieved.

IMG_5424.JPG
Filename
IMG_5424.JPG
File size
1.76 MiB
Views
250 views
File comment
Final AGP to PCI Adapter
File license
CC-BY-4.0

I naturally got a few of the PCBs made, so if anyone is interested, please get in touch. As I still can't send private messages, please include an e-mail address in your pm.

Reply 84 of 106, by Tiido

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Hahahahaha, this is awesome ~

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 86 of 106, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Sent you a PM.

A lot of PCI video cards support running at 66Mhz but most consumer boards only have 33Mhz PCI.

I wonder what the performance difference on say the GeForce 610 PCI would be when run on one of these adapters.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 88 of 106, by kitten.may.cry

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:33:

Sent you a PM.

A lot of PCI video cards support running at 66Mhz but most consumer boards only have 33Mhz PCI.

I wonder what the performance difference on say the GeForce 610 PCI would be when run on one of these adapters.

It'd make PixelPipes video on PCI videocards obsolete, among others.

Reply 89 of 106, by CwF

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:33:

A lot of PCI video cards support running at 66Mhz but most consumer boards only have 33Mhz PCI.

I wonder what the performance difference on say the GeForce 610 PCI would be when run on one of these adapters.

I've run said 610 and an amd5450 PCI on various P3TD boards set to 66MHz and the performance basically doubles. They run HD desktops just fine. On a P3TDe6 I ran for a decade, either do better than a Z2 AGPpro.

I used to know what I was doing...

Reply 90 of 106, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
luckybob wrote on 2022-05-30, 15:23:
This is the kind of necro posting that I fully enjoy. […]
Show full quote

This is the kind of necro posting that I fully enjoy.

fry_clapping_with_food_futurama.gif

Ah yes, ah yes, indeed🧐

Do you think some of the raid controller issues can be solved with further development?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 91 of 106, by ChrisK

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
scheiss_freak wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:59:

For a headless build I'm currently working on, I did not want to leave the bandwidth of the AGP port unused. But when looking for information online about using the AGP port for anything else than a graphics card you won't find much, except between the lines of this thread maybe. In most other forums when people have been asking about it, they'd be misdirected by some troll with an answer somewhat like "That's not possible because - you know - AGP stands for Accelerated GRAPHICS Port"

There's also a USB port build into the AGP connector.
So for the sake of not leaving the AGP port unused (and assuming this USB port is connected to anything on the board) you could also create some AGP-to-USB adapter for adding some internal storage or whatever comes to mind 😉

Reply 92 of 106, by weedeewee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
ChrisK wrote on 2022-05-31, 10:21:

There's also a USB port build into the AGP connector.
So for the sake of not leaving the AGP port unused (and assuming this USB port is connected to anything on the board) you could also create some AGP-to-USB adapter for adding some internal storage or whatever comes to mind 😉

wtf. Was it always there and I never knew, did I forget this ?
How many mainboards with AGP actually have this implemented?
Sounds like something sphere478 would jump on 😁

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !

Reply 94 of 106, by kitten.may.cry

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
weedeewee wrote on 2022-05-31, 16:09:
wtf. Was it always there and I never knew, did I forget this ? How many mainboards with AGP actually have this implemented? So […]
Show full quote
ChrisK wrote on 2022-05-31, 10:21:

There's also a USB port build into the AGP connector.
So for the sake of not leaving the AGP port unused (and assuming this USB port is connected to anything on the board) you could also create some AGP-to-USB adapter for adding some internal storage or whatever comes to mind 😉

wtf. Was it always there and I never knew, did I forget this ?
How many mainboards with AGP actually have this implemented?
Sounds like something sphere478 would jump on 😁

You bet he would.

Reply 95 of 106, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Really? They put a usb connection in agp?

Did most mainboards hook it up? Or leave them blank?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 96 of 106, by weedeewee

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:22:

Really? They put a usb connection in agp?

Did most mainboards hook it up? Or leave them blank?

That is something you must find out and share with the world !

My feeling is that it was hardly ever connected.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !

Reply 97 of 106, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
weedeewee wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:36:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:22:

Really? They put a usb connection in agp?

Did most mainboards hook it up? Or leave them blank?

That is something you must find out and share with the world !

My feeling is that it was hardly ever connected.

https://old.pinouts.ru/Slots/agp_pinout.shtml

Looks like it’s true

Of course 5v and gnd can be taken from any pin with that signal, the only thing left is data plus and minus

This thing also exists, unclear if it is using the port signal or not though.

HP Powered USB AGP Card for RP5000, PN: 325201-001

Attachments

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 98 of 106, by rasz_pl

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Wiki suggests it was meant to supply video cards with USB signal to be send to the monitors integrated USB HUB. The problem is AFAIK there was never a video connector with integrated USB in the PC land 😀. Apple Display Connector (ADC) from 1998 combines TDMS (same as in DVI), USB and power. DVI came out a year later from Digital Display Working Group. AGP predates ADC by a year. Nothing lines up 😀

edit: Turns out there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Enhanced_Video_Connector from 1995 already had VGA with USB integrated, plus firewire and audio 😮

Last edited by rasz_pl on 2022-06-08, 02:40. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 99 of 106, by 0xCats

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

When you want to add PCI-e and AGP to something that only does PCI.
Just small things one works on, as I do...

Screenshot_20220601_012856.jpeg
Filename
Screenshot_20220601_012856.jpeg
File size
94.56 KiB
Views
82 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception