Putas wrote on 2021-01-18, 07:36:

Something more trustworthy than opinions from reviews. […]
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ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-17, 22:00:

Putas wrote on 2021-01-17, 18:08:

Can these claims be sourced?

And what kind of "sources" are you looking for?

Something more trustworthy than opinions from reviews.

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-17, 22:00:

They were given a big chance by Via afterwards and put together the Columbia chip, AKA the first DeltaChrome in '04. And even though it was not that bad, not too many cared. “It’s almost as good as an ATi/nVidia” doesn’t win mindshares.

Sounds quite contradictory to milking them dry.

Oh yeah, because one major R&D push in 8 years of Via management combined with minimal efforts to keep up with standards and almost no marketing to consumers or 3rd party integrators does not qualify for “milking them dry”? Via bought S3 Graphics primarily for integrated graphics - more specifically, the ProSavage and then whatever good-enough-for-the-basics Chrome derivative they squeeze into their northbridges for their C3/C7s or Nano ITX boxes.

So you were looking for, what, something that is actually close to analysis based on observations and experience dealing with their products, or are you just trying to be a contrarian git?

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-18, 07:55:

Putas wrote on 2021-01-18, 07:36:

Something more trustworthy than opinions from reviews. […]
Show full quote

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-17, 22:00:

And what kind of "sources" are you looking for?

Something more trustworthy than opinions from reviews.

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-17, 22:00:

They were given a big chance by Via afterwards and put together the Columbia chip, AKA the first DeltaChrome in '04. And even though it was not that bad, not too many cared. “It’s almost as good as an ATi/nVidia” doesn’t win mindshares.

Sounds quite contradictory to milking them dry.

Oh yeah, because one major R&D push in 8 years of Via management combined with minimal efforts to keep up with standards and almost no marketing to consumers or 3rd party integrators does not qualify for “milking them dry”? Via bought S3 Graphics primarily for integrated graphics - more specifically, the ProSavage and then whatever good-enough-for-the-basics Chrome derivative they squeeze into their northbridges for their C3/C7s or Nano ITX boxes.

So you were looking for, what, something that is actually close to analysis based on observations and experience dealing with their products, or are you just trying to be a contrarian git?

I am looking for data. For example, comparison in numbers showing how integrated graphics "milked them dry" as opposed to discrete graphics. Or R&D budget through the years.

Putas wrote on 2021-01-18, 08:40:

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-01-18, 07:55:

Oh yeah, because reviews are obviously not based on people using the products / writing about their experiences and are therefor […]
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Putas wrote on 2021-01-18, 07:36:

Something more trustworthy than opinions from reviews.

Sounds quite contradictory to milking them dry.

Oh yeah, because reviews are obviously not based on people using the products / writing about their experiences and are therefore invalid as a form of factual information, as evidenced by the vast underground trade in those mindblowingly fast S3 cards that the lamestream media wants you to ignore. Obviously.

One major R&D push in 8 years of Via management combined with minimal efforts to keep up with standards and almost no marketing to consumers or 3rd party integrators does not qualify for “milking them dry”? Via bought S3 Graphics primarily for integrated graphics - more specifically, the ProSavage and then whatever good-enough-for-the-basics Chrome derivative they squeeze into their northbridges for their C3/C7s or Nano ITX boxes.

So you were looking for, what, something that is actually close to analysis based on observations and experience dealing with their products, or are you just trying to be a contrarian git?

I am looking for data. For example, comparison in numbers showing how integrated graphics "milked them dry" as opposed to discrete graphics. Or R&D budget through the years.

And how would propose we get this “data”? S3 Graphics is not a public company after the 2000 Via buyout, and their mid-2000s recapitalization were 50% Via Technologies and 50% WTI...which is a hedge fund controlled by Cher Wang (founder and chairwoman of Via Technologies). They were sold in 2011 to HTC...which is founded and chaired by...Cher Wang. it’s the Taiwanese equivalent of a Zaibatsu flipping assets around as it sees fit, and all of that stays off the investor quarterly reports (even if the numbers used were reported their reports do not give detailed breakdowns as to which of the Via Tech divisions got what, and since S3 is not technically a part of Via, you get nothing)

As far as I am aware of, and with the exception of Zhaoxin (which is a joint venture of Via Technologies and the Shanghai Municipal government), Via bailed out of releasing new CPUs and GPUs since 2012 or so, and with the exception of one or 2 DeltaChrome variants, I cannot point to any specific evidence that S3 under Via had a competitive product for the time, or that its parent companies gave it enough money to make anything beyond “good enough to pair with Via Edens”.