BitWrangler wrote on 2023-11-27, 15:33:

Hmmmm, probably explains why I was completely underwhelmed by Apocalypse 3Dx performance back in 99/00 when I was trying to run it with a GD5430 PCI ... does it correlate with software Doom/Quake scores on the 2D card or is it different things which affect speed?

A good FPU does help. PCX2 on a Cyrix6x86 means death (and freezes given the unfriendly settings neccessary for most 6x86 processors)

I'm not sure what my fastest host video card comination with my PCX2 on a P4 was. I usually cycled through one or two FX5200 AGPs (which are unstable for Direct3D, but a sharp TV out) and a Rage128 Fury (blurry TV out but it all works). I don't think the PowerVR KYRO 2 combo is the fastest either ableit how cool it is to double up on PowerVR hardware 😀

leileilol wrote on 2023-11-28, 03:21:

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-11-27, 15:33:

Hmmmm, probably explains why I was completely underwhelmed by Apocalypse 3Dx performance back in 99/00 when I was trying to run it with a GD5430 PCI ... does it correlate with software Doom/Quake scores on the 2D card or is it different things which affect speed?

A good FPU does help. PCX2 on a Cyrix6x86 means death (and freezes given the unfriendly settings neccessary for most 6x86 processors)

I'm not sure what my fastest host video card comination with my PCX2 on a P4 was. I usually cycled through one or two FX5200 AGPs (which are unstable for Direct3D, but a sharp TV out) and a Rage128 Fury (blurry TV out but it all works). I don't think the PowerVR KYRO 2 combo is the fastest either ableit how cool it is to double up on PowerVR hardware 😀

What would you say is the best vaguely period correct setup for a pcx2? (No P3/P4, no voodoo3 as a main card)

A 440LX with a Pentium II Klamath 233 with a Mach64/Rage of some kind and a SB32/AWE64 Value. The PCX2's been part of many 97 P2 OEM setups because of the ability to pass 3d to the video card which could probably have TV out on it (leading to a 'gaming home theater PC' setup before specialized 3dfx cards like Pure3D and decent ATI AllInWonders and TNTs).

On the other hand, you could go period correct and whole hog on API range adding a Voodoo Graphics and having a Matrox Mystique or Millennium II as host to get the sharpest picture, MSI3D, SGL, and Glide. 😀 (If DOS's important, switch the MGA to your favorite Trio64/Virge variant)

The PCX2's last driver was around May 1998 which should be close within period range for the Celeron 300A overclocking madness.

leileilol wrote on 2023-11-28, 04:03:

A 440LX with a Pentium II Klamath 233 with a Mach64/Rage of some kind and a SB32/AWE64 Value. The PCX2's been part of many 97 P2 OEM setups because of the ability to pass 3d to the video card which could probably have TV out on it (leading to a 'gaming home theater PC' setup before specialized 3dfx cards like Pure3D and decent ATI AllInWonders and TNTs).

On the other hand, you could go period correct and whole hog on API range adding a Voodoo Graphics and having a Matrox Mystique or Millennium II as host to get the sharpest picture, MSI3D, SGL, and Glide. 😀 (If DOS's important, switch the MGA to your favorite Trio64/Virge variant)

The PCX2's last driver was around May 1998 which should be close within period range for the Celeron 300A overclocking madness.

I currently have a Mystique as primary card, and it's performing woefully with the pcx2

For period correctness :
Mach64/3D Rage II family, Tseng ET6000/ET6100, CL GD5465 (Laguna3D) for primary cards. Drivers might not be period correct though, I tried the latest ones for most of them.
AGP/PCI doesn't make any difference.
Nothing else than a PII for the CPU.
A 440LX motherboard that can overclock a bit might be good for PCI bandwidth.

I wonder if performance would be affected by a faster PCI clock.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-11-28, 13:14:

I wonder if performance would be affected by a faster PCI clock.

My PCI clock is already over 40MHz, not sure how much higher it can get. What I'm hearing is that 440 series chipsets might be superior to 430 series chipsets for the PCX2 though.

JustJulião wrote on 2023-11-28, 09:48:

For period correctness : Mach64/3D Rage II family, Tseng ET6000/ET6100, CL GD5465 (Laguna3D) for primary cards. Drivers might no […]
Show full quote

For period correctness :
Mach64/3D Rage II family, Tseng ET6000/ET6100, CL GD5465 (Laguna3D) for primary cards. Drivers might not be period correct though, I tried the latest ones for most of them.
AGP/PCI doesn't make any difference.
Nothing else than a PII for the CPU.
A 440LX motherboard that can overclock a bit might be good for PCI bandwidth.

I have a 440EX based board with a P2 300 and integrated Rage AGP2X, I'll give this a try as host. FSB/PCI is limited to 66/33 though

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-11-28, 13:14:

I wonder if performance would be affected by a faster PCI clock.

Many people claim there's a difference, but it's minimal with a 90MHz PCX2 on a Tualatin CPU from 29MHz to 39MHz.
34.1 fps -> 34.7 fps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nToP55N_jM
Needless to say, it's virtually identical on a slower system and a 66MHz card, especially if you're going from 33MHz to 37MHz or something like that.
Even if the difference is negligible, it's still there, no matter how many times I try, which suggests that the motherboard is actually applying the settings.
I don't know whether the 440BX handles the PCX2 better than period correct chipsets, or whether the PCI bandwidth being a bottleneck is a myth.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-11-28, 14:41:

JustJulião wrote on 2023-11-28, 09:48:

For period correctness : Mach64/3D Rage II family, Tseng ET6000/ET6100, CL GD5465 (Laguna3D) for primary cards. Drivers might no […]
Show full quote

For period correctness :
Mach64/3D Rage II family, Tseng ET6000/ET6100, CL GD5465 (Laguna3D) for primary cards. Drivers might not be period correct though, I tried the latest ones for most of them.
AGP/PCI doesn't make any difference.
Nothing else than a PII for the CPU.
A 440LX motherboard that can overclock a bit might be good for PCI bandwidth.

I have a 440EX based board with a P2 300 and integrated Rage AGP2X, I'll give this a try as host. FSB/PCI is limited to 66/33 though

Some people claim that integrated graphics don't work properly, but it works fine on my i815 (which I'm showing for no reason).