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First post, by drosse1meyer

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Hi All

So I have this PCI version of an mx200. 2D works without an issue. However there are problems with opengl games.

In Quake2 for example, I'm able to get time demo to run once or twice. After that it will start showing artifacts and hard lock the system. Quake3 won't even run the demo, freezes instantly. (Obviously, software modes run perfectly fine)

There was a slightly bulged cap which I replaced with no difference.

The heatsink seemed to be getting very hot, so I removed, cleaned that up, added new grease, and also put a fan on it temporarily. No dice.

Checked the gpu/mem clocks to make sure it wasn't overclocked. Everything is running at stock speeds.

Is there anything else I can try to get this working reliably?

Thanks!

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P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 1 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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No one? 🙁 Eh I guess I'll replace the other caps too. Have to order more. Is it possible the GPU is just bad in some way? Strange that 2D is okay whereas using opengl appears to immediately lock the system.

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 3 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 13:37:

I'm surprised by the lack of responses here. Does the same happens on D3D games?

These kind of corruption usually appears to be related to RAM.

Good idea let me try that

I did make a little progress, however. On a whim I installed RivaTuner and downclocked the GPU and memory to the recommended min. Surprise, it works fine... ran unreal timedemo for 20 minutes without crash or artifacts.

I also neglected to mention the 2d has a bit of an odd 'shimmer' at any resolution... almost like a display timing issue...

Could this all be related to the clock crystal? (Just a shot in the dark.)

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 4 of 13, by Gmlb256

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drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:18:

I did make a little progress, however. On a whim I installed RivaTuner and downclocked the GPU and memory to the recommended min. Surprise, it works fine... ran unreal timedemo for 20 minutes without crash or artifacts.

I also neglected to mention the 2d has a bit of an odd 'shimmer' at any resolution... almost like a display timing issue...

Could this all be related to the clock crystal? (Just a shot in the dark.)

I had to lower the memory clock on a GF4 MX440 card due to being unusually clocked higher and the high memory clock caused the text mode to display garbage over the time.

The blurriness on 2D appears to be normal on these cards and depends of the manufacturer due to the mess that most did on the filters around the RAMDAC. The best ones in regard to image quality are Diamond, ELSA, STB and Compaq.

Last edited by Gmlb256 on 2021-09-19, 14:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 5 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:36:
drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:18:

I did make a little progress, however. On a whim I installed RivaTuner and downclocked the GPU and memory to the recommended min. Surprise, it works fine... ran unreal timedemo for 20 minutes without crash or artifacts.

I also neglected to mention the 2d has a bit of an odd 'shimmer' at any resolution... almost like a display timing issue...

Could this all be related to the clock crystal? (Just a shot in the dark.)

I had to lower the memory clock on a GF4 MX440 card due to being unusually clocked higher and the high memory clock caused the text mode to display garbage over the time.

These kind of shimmering on 2D appears to be normal on these cards and depends of the manufacturer due to the mess that most did on the filters around the RAMDAC. The best ones in regard to image quality are Diamond, ELSA, STB and Compaq.

Alright thanks for the ideas... it's a PNY card. I'll play around with it a bit more. At least I now know that it works in some capacity.

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 6 of 13, by Gmlb256

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:36:

These kind of shimmering on 2D appears to be normal on these cards and depends of the manufacturer due to the mess that most did on the filters around the RAMDAC. The best ones in regard to image quality are Diamond, ELSA, STB and Compaq.

I've noticed that I was talking about blurriness. 🤣

Adjusting the display refresh rate could help with the shimmering.

Reply 7 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:51:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 14:36:

These kind of shimmering on 2D appears to be normal on these cards and depends of the manufacturer due to the mess that most did on the filters around the RAMDAC. The best ones in regard to image quality are Diamond, ELSA, STB and Compaq.

I've noticed that I was talking about blurriness. 🤣

Adjusting the display refresh rate could help with the shimmering.

Well after a few more tests a GPU downclock alone will make it much more stable. Changing render method did't help with crash at stock speeds. Interesting that directx8 runs faster than opengl, always thought that was best for older games and cards...

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 8 of 13, by Gmlb256

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drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-19, 17:03:

Interesting that directx8 runs faster than opengl, always thought that was best for older games and cards...

Yeah, it's a common myth that OpenGL runs faster than D3D no matter what. That's due to T&L being implemented on the OpenGL ICD on nVidia cards and OpenGL being a high-level API, T&L on D3D API was introduced in DX7.

Reply 9 of 13, by Nemo1985

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Well done trying to underclock the card, if I got it right the problem lies in the gpu, try to find the maximum underclocked frequency to have it stable, then you could modify the bios with new clock speed.
Another try is to use a bigger heatsink if you can, but maybe the card chip was damaged due to high temperature over time?

Reply 10 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-19, 17:07:
drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-19, 17:03:

Interesting that directx8 runs faster than opengl, always thought that was best for older games and cards...

Yeah, it's a common myth that OpenGL runs faster than D3D no matter what. That's due to T&L being implemented on the OpenGL ICD on nVidia cards and OpenGL being a high-level API, T&L on D3D API was introduced in DX7.

Hey I'll take anything that improves my benchmarks 🤣

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB

Reply 11 of 13, by retardware

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Make sure you recap using caps one or two notches higher, eg instead of .1u use .22u or even .33u.
For overclocking you often need to do that.

And yes, a heatsink with fan will keep the GPU cool and signals clean.

Reply 13 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-19, 17:12:

Well done trying to underclock the card, if I got it right the problem lies in the gpu, try to find the maximum underclocked frequency to have it stable, then you could modify the bios with new clock speed.
Another try is to use a bigger heatsink if you can, but maybe the card chip was damaged due to high temperature over time?

Yeah that would be the next experiment. I suppose I could even flash the BIOS with those settings as well, but right now RivaTuner is acceptable. I'll just put a post-it in the bag so I remember what i did. And even though I'm glad this card works in my 430vx build, I don't plan on using this in my main machines right now.

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB