VOGONS


First post, by Enterra

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I've a bit of a strange situation here....

What I'm seeing:
The system will only post with my MX440
When attempting to launch any application requiring 3d, the app will crash (driver too I believe) and then nothing will recognize that I have a 3d accelerator until I reboot
With ANY other graphics card (PCI or AGP) there is no screen activity and no beep codes

What I've tried:
Removing all drives (Optical, Floppy, Storage)
Removing all other add-in cards (PCI USB, PCI Sound, PCI Controller Card)
Many bios resets
Swapping memory modules
Loosening the motherboard screws in case some how the card wasn't seating properly due to position in the case

Other Video Cards I've Tried:
Rage 128 Ultra AGP
Radeon 9800 Pro AGP
Voodoo 3 2000 AGP
S3 Virge/DX PCI

I'm wondering if this is an agp voltage issue? Looking at my motherboards manual, it appear that setting is tied to the processor speed? I'm also not clear on whether or not you have to move jumpers on the board to set the agp slot to speed (1x 2x 4x)? (I've attached the manual for your review)

I'd be so grateful for any suggestions!

UPDATE:
I just pulled a Radeon 9800SE 256mb AGP from my P4 XP system and it posted. So.... another interesting thing that is probably a complete coincidence is that both cards that have posted have been DVI cards. I'm so confused. 😒

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Reply 1 of 16, by Tetrium

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-13, 20:05:

S3 Virge/DX PCI

So not an AGP voltage issue.

You tried switching PSU, CPU and RAM?
Doublechecked jumpers? The jumpers are easily overlooked even if you checked them multiple times (like accidentally switching the 1st and last row of jumpers around).

Also test these graphics cards in a different system.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 2 of 16, by Enterra

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-14, 13:05:
So not an AGP voltage issue. […]
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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-13, 20:05:

S3 Virge/DX PCI

So not an AGP voltage issue.

You tried switching PSU, CPU and RAM?
Doublechecked jumpers? The jumpers are easily overlooked even if you checked them multiple times (like accidentally switching the 1st and last row of jumpers around).

Also test these graphics cards in a different system.

Hey there and thanks for the reply! I've continued to work on this after my initial post...

PSU was stress tested with another whole system successfully (Also, its a brand new PSU (Powerspec 650 80 plus bronze(overkill, I know haha)))
I have tested all these GPUs in multiple other systems without issue since this issue began
RAM I swapped for a couple different modules a couple times
CPU.... well.... I don't unfortunately have another CPU to swap in. I have to admit this COULD be the issue? That said.... as long as I don't run 3d applications I can run the CPU endlessly with heavy work loads without issue.

My gut says motherboard.... I have validated the jumper settings for the CPU clocks. I'll validate again.

Reply 3 of 16, by Enterra

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-14, 13:05:
So not an AGP voltage issue. […]
Show full quote
Enterra wrote on 2022-04-13, 20:05:

S3 Virge/DX PCI

So not an AGP voltage issue.

You tried switching PSU, CPU and RAM?
Doublechecked jumpers? The jumpers are easily overlooked even if you checked them multiple times (like accidentally switching the 1st and last row of jumpers around).

Also test these graphics cards in a different system.

I have also ordered a Tyan Trinity S1598 and a AMD K6-2 500 along with another DIMM of PC133. Perhaps this would be a better motherboard anyway? Thoughts?

Reply 4 of 16, by Cuttoon

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-14, 20:16:

I have also ordered a Tyan Trinity S1598 and a AMD K6-2 500 along with another DIMM of PC133. Perhaps this would be a better motherboard anyway? Thoughts?

Since you don't have any financial restraints, why not mandate a professional engineering bureau with the issue, instead of waiting for peer advice? Just putting this out there, there are pros for these things.

But, I concur that it's probably not the PSU. Guess your motherboard is fucked. Maybe replace some voltage regulators.

Matter of try n error, get any graphics card that has its own PSU hookup, see how that behaves?

I like jumpers.

Reply 5 of 16, by Enterra

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:44:
Since you don't have any financial restraints, why not mandate a professional engineering bureau with the issue, instead of wait […]
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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-14, 20:16:

I have also ordered a Tyan Trinity S1598 and a AMD K6-2 500 along with another DIMM of PC133. Perhaps this would be a better motherboard anyway? Thoughts?

Since you don't have any financial restraints, why not mandate a professional engineering bureau with the issue, instead of waiting for peer advice? Just putting this out there, there are pros for these things.

But, I concur that it's probably not the PSU. Guess your motherboard is fucked. Maybe replace some voltage regulators.

Matter of try n error, get any graphics card that has its own PSU hookup, see how that behaves?

Apologies if I said something that offended you. There are certainly financial constraints and I never like letting something go to waste.

That said I appreciate your suggestion of a GPU with a PSU input. I'll dig around my stash and see what I can find. Thanks!

Reply 6 of 16, by Cuttoon

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:53:

Apologies if I said something that offended you.

Oh please, no, nothing of that kind. I just marvel sometimes at other people buying really specific and rare gear after minor setbacks. But maybe you got a good deal on that Tyan. Cheers!

I like jumpers.

Reply 7 of 16, by Tetrium

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-14, 20:16:
Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-14, 13:05:
So not an AGP voltage issue. […]
Show full quote
Enterra wrote on 2022-04-13, 20:05:

S3 Virge/DX PCI

So not an AGP voltage issue.

You tried switching PSU, CPU and RAM?
Doublechecked jumpers? The jumpers are easily overlooked even if you checked them multiple times (like accidentally switching the 1st and last row of jumpers around).

Also test these graphics cards in a different system.

I have also ordered a Tyan Trinity S1598 and a AMD K6-2 500 along with another DIMM of PC133. Perhaps this would be a better motherboard anyway? Thoughts?

At least you'll have more parts to test with 😜
I'm unfamiliar with your newly ordered board, but I supposed it will suffice.

I agree with the notion your motherboard is atm one of the primary suspects.
Please keep ESD in mind when working on this hardware.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 8 of 16, by Enterra

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-14, 23:06:
Enterra wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:53:

Apologies if I said something that offended you.

Oh please, no, nothing of that kind. I just marvel sometimes at other people buying really specific and rare gear after minor setbacks. But maybe you got a good deal on that Tyan. Cheers!

I see! It wasn’t a particularly good deal, but this is a father son project. I’m trying to keep momentum. Kids lose interest so quickly these days. *sigh*

Reply 9 of 16, by shamino

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Sorry if this is too basic, but are you sure your monitor will pick up VGA from anything else? You mentioned only DVI has worked so far.

If you have a multimeter then try checking voltages, see if they look good and not fluctuating under load. Ideally you could try to measure voltages on the video card in case there's a supply issue on the board.

I'm not familiar with the P5A and never used the S1598, but I've had good experience with the S1590 which I think is pretty much the same in features, just Baby AT instead of ATX.

Reply 10 of 16, by Sphere478

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the 1.06 that I had at least was a very glitchy mess. they actually made it worse from the 1.04 it seems

I did have the best luck with a radeon 9000 though over other cards at my disposal

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 11 of 16, by Enterra

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shamino wrote on 2022-04-15, 01:05:

Sorry if this is too basic, but are you sure your monitor will pick up VGA from anything else? You mentioned only DVI has worked so far.

If you have a multimeter then try checking voltages, see if they look good and not fluctuating under load. Ideally you could try to measure voltages on the video card in case there's a supply issue on the board.

I'm not familiar with the P5A and never used the S1598, but I've had good experience with the S1590 which I think is pretty much the same in features, just Baby AT instead of ATX.

Yeah, that was a thought I had. This monitor does pick up the signal from the same cards in different systems, though so I'm pretty good there I think. I have a mulimeter, but not a lot of skill with it unfortunately. I can do simple things. Perhaps I'll give that a try. Thanks!

I also wasn't familiar with these boards. I haven't had a socket 7 setup since I was a kid. I was attempting to rebuild the PC my dad built before he passed with my son. Not going as well as I had hoped unfortunately. Such is life!

I pulled these boards from this thread: Best (Super) Socket 7 motherboard?

On the first page there is a list of boards on tametick's post that were an accumulation of the hivemind that is vogons that were at least at one point considered the best. Both boards are from that list. Hopefully the Tyan works out a little better!

Reply 12 of 16, by Enterra

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-15, 06:00:

the 1.06 that I had at least was a very glitchy mess. they actually made it worse from the 1.04 it seems

I did have the best luck with a radeon 9000 though over other cards at my disposal

I didn't actually try launching anything with the 9800. I was just doing post testing with it. Perhaps I should go back and try it again? This board is either very picky, very broken or both. I've read other accounts on this site of other people using an mx440 and a Voodoo3 2000 with it without issue. I very much would like to be able to do that!

Reply 13 of 16, by Sphere478

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-16, 02:32:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-04-15, 06:00:

the 1.06 that I had at least was a very glitchy mess. they actually made it worse from the 1.04 it seems

I did have the best luck with a radeon 9000 though over other cards at my disposal

I didn't actually try launching anything with the 9800. I was just doing post testing with it. Perhaps I should go back and try it again? This board is either very picky, very broken or both. I've read other accounts on this site of other people using an mx440 and a Voodoo3 2000 with it without issue. I very much would like to be able to do that!

I have a 9800 pro and it didn’t seem to like the p5a so you may want to try a different card?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 14 of 16, by Enterra

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Update:
I have received the new Tyan Trinity s1598 and rebuilt the machine around it. Everything worked perfectly! So that's great!

Now... what about this P5A?
I've ordered two more socket 7 processors: Another MMX 233 & an MMX 166
If one of these two processors slots in to the Asus and it then works properly, we know where the problem lies.

I realize that the Trinity came with an AMD K2 500 which I could have easily popped in to the P5A to test with, but I felt strangely strong about not doing so. I got the other two processors for less than $10 together shipped... I'll test with those shortly and update here again 😀

Reply 15 of 16, by Cuttoon

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Enterra wrote on 2022-04-18, 23:46:
Update: I have received the new Tyan Trinity s1598 and rebuilt the machine around it. Everything worked perfectly! So that's gre […]
Show full quote

Update:
I have received the new Tyan Trinity s1598 and rebuilt the machine around it. Everything worked perfectly! So that's great!

Now... what about this P5A?
I've ordered two more socket 7 processors: Another MMX 233 & an MMX 166
If one of these two processors slots in to the Asus and it then works properly, we know where the problem lies.

I realize that the Trinity came with an AMD K2 500 which I could have easily popped in to the P5A to test with, but I felt strangely strong about not doing so. I got the other two processors for less than $10 together shipped... I'll test with those shortly and update here again 😀

The Pentium MMX seems to staunchly resist the usual inflation, really. Still thrown at you for single digits. Maybe it's too much in the shadow of the K6?

Congratulation on the running system and tip of the hat that you got the kid involved in some activity other than just a screen, appears to be in short supply today. 😉

I like jumpers.

Reply 16 of 16, by Enterra

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-18, 23:55:
Enterra wrote on 2022-04-18, 23:46:
Update: I have received the new Tyan Trinity s1598 and rebuilt the machine around it. Everything worked perfectly! So that's gre […]
Show full quote

Update:
I have received the new Tyan Trinity s1598 and rebuilt the machine around it. Everything worked perfectly! So that's great!

Now... what about this P5A?
I've ordered two more socket 7 processors: Another MMX 233 & an MMX 166
If one of these two processors slots in to the Asus and it then works properly, we know where the problem lies.

I realize that the Trinity came with an AMD K2 500 which I could have easily popped in to the P5A to test with, but I felt strangely strong about not doing so. I got the other two processors for less than $10 together shipped... I'll test with those shortly and update here again 😀

Indeed.... so strange that these processors haven't exploded in price like so many of the other things from this generation. A decent socket 7 board costs as much as a passable brand new Ryzen or Intel board. Astonishing!

My son has shown some real interest in the computer field. He also helped me build my server rack not too long ago. His attention only wonders when we have to wait on orders.... hard to get him to come back after that for some reason.

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