VOGONS


First post, by 121Gigwatts

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Hi everyone.

I'm currently testing the difference between VGA and DVI when it comes to dos games (especially Jazz Jackrabbit), and I'm a bit surprised by the results. At first I was annoyed by the time needed by my LCD screen to refresh each time there is a change in the video mode (it goes blank for 3,5 seconds which is huge) so I wanted to check if it's related to VGA.

Setup:

I ran my tests on a LCD screen that has dual input (VGA / DVI) and I tested on 2 computers. The first one has a Ti4200 graphics card, the other one has an Intel Integrated 82865G.

Test:

Pretty simple, I run the first level of the first episode of Jazz Jackrabbit, and I navigate through the OSD of my LCD screen to display video informations.

Results:

Ti 4200 VGA :
- H 31.25 kHz
- V 59.29 Hz
- Pixels 27.90 MHz
- Res 720x400

Goes blank for 3,5 seconds when there's a change in display mode, which is often (for example between the planet loading screen, and the beginning of the level in Jazz Jackrabbit).

Ti 4200 DVI:
- H 64.17 kHz
- V 60.19 Hz
- Pixels 108.03 MHz
- Res 1280x1024

Always stays at 1280x1024 (through I doubt it's somehow upscaled), no blank screen, which is perfect. A proper way to enjoy the game without interruption.


Intel Integrated 82865G VGA:

- H 31.41 kHz
- V 59.60 Hz
- Pixels 27.90 MHz
- Res 720x400

Has the blank screen issue when the video mode changes.

Intel Integrated 82865G DVI:
- H 31.50 kHz
- V 59.77 Hz
- Pixels 27.80 MHz
- Res 640x398

And... it's still has the blank screen issue when switching video modes (Jazz menu is @70Hz).
Also note that all values seems really close between VGA and DVI, except for the resolution.

I'm confused

With the Ti4200 + DVI I'm getting fantastic results, while the Intel 82865G seems disappointing.

From this point I have three hypothesis:
- The Ti4200 has an builtin upscaler, which sends a 1280x1024@60 Hz stable signal to the screen through DVI. That would lead me to another question => why it does not work on VGA ?
- The 82865G lacks some DVI features, which leaves the screen unable to work in a constant mode.
- The 82865G works as intended, it does not tries to upscale anything, just send the signal "as it is" to the screen.

I'm basically trying to figure out if any of these card works "too well" or "too bad".

Thanks !

Reply 1 of 6, by darry

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What happens over DVI in DOS varies based on graphics card BIOS behaviour and EDID (and obviously between graphics cards, having an integrated TMDS or not seems to be a variable too) .

See here for some of experiments/tests on that matter 70Hz in pure DOS at 1600x1200 (or other) over DVI on an old card (FX5900) with modern monitor is possible .

Reply 2 of 6, by Joseph_Joestar

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Many cards from that era (including the Ti4200) lock DVI output to 60 Hz when running DOS games in the 320x200 resolution.

This can cause noticeable slowdowns in certain games like Tyrian, since they are designed to run at 70 Hz. Using VGA instead of DVI can solve such issues.

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Reply 3 of 6, by 121Gigwatts

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darry wrote on 2022-08-03, 21:06:

What happens over DVI in DOS varies based on graphics card BIOS behaviour and EDID (and obviously between graphics cards, having an integrated TMDS or not seems to be a variable too) .

See here for some of experiments/tests on that matter 70Hz in pure DOS at 1600x1200 (or other) over DVI on an old card (FX5900) with modern monitor is possible .

Thanks, that thread is interesting.

From what I understand, the Ti4200 has an internal scaler, but it requires EDID (only available on DVI), that would explain the behavior.

Reply 4 of 6, by 121Gigwatts

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-08-03, 21:14:

Many cards from that era (including the Ti4200) lock DVI output to 60 Hz when running DOS games in the 320x200 resolution.

This can cause noticeable slowdowns in certain games like Tyrian, since they are designed to run at 70 Hz. Using VGA instead of DVI can solve such issues.

Do they actually reduce the framerate to 60Hz, or drop frames ?

Reply 5 of 6, by Joseph_Joestar

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121Gigwatts wrote on 2022-08-03, 21:17:

Do they actually reduce the framerate to 60Hz, or drop frames ?

I'm not sure, but the issue is most noticeable when the game music slows down.

This occurs because some games tie the engine behavior to the frame rate, so my guess is that it does get lowered.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 6 of 6, by 121Gigwatts

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That's good to know. Right now I get better results with the Ti 4200 + DVI, but I may end up stuck in 60 Hz.

I thought EDID was only available with DVI, but from what I've read this should work in VGA too. That's weird