But the Voodoo also has the ability to have radio

FM is kinda irrelevant for gaming. And if it was - real radio is a thing and hassle free.

but I find the stereoscopic 3-D of the geforce an interesting novelty.

You need at least 100Hz to display it properly. And probably around 200Hz to avoid eye strain in long gamins sessions, which is hardly achievable even with high-end CRT monitor.

So both features are gimmicks at best. It all comes to what you want to play. Something really old with Glide support - Voodoo 3. Something released in 2000+ or just with good OpenGL support - GeForce 3.

The 3500's the fastest non-VSA voodoo card so there's that. The analog tuning features part are mainly obsolete however. There's also the matter of what AGP board you'll be putting it in, as "Win98 PC" spans quite a few generations to some of the post-3dfx ones. Also be aware there's many PCI TV cards with FM radio tuning features.

And finally the Voodoo3 can't run PSO as is. 😉 The 256x256 texture limit makes the engine hit a wall and abort, and as that's D3D8, you can't mesafx env vars your way out of that.

You need at least 100Hz to display it properly. And probably around 200Hz to avoid eye strain in long gamins sessions, which is hardly achievable even with high-end CRT monitor.

Ill be using a Dell P1130. It has been awhile since I used the card but I'm pretty sure it can do 200Hz at 800x600 with this monitor. But I may have been using a dimondtron 2060u which I might use again since it's beige but the dell trinitron has better colors.

So both features are gimmicks at best. It all comes to what you want to play. Something really old with Glide support - Voodoo 3. Something released in 2000+ or just with good OpenGL support - GeForce 3.

Excellent points, given I'll be using an 800 Mhz pentium 3 I'll probably stay below the year 2000. Both are gimmicks but I was wondering which gimmick others enjoyed more I suppose.

leileilol wrote on 2023-03-10, 07:54:

The 3500's the fastest non-VSA voodoo card so there's that. The analog tuning features part are mainly obsolete however. There's also the matter of what AGP board you'll be putting it in, as "Win98 PC" spans quite a few generations to some of the post-3dfx ones. Also be aware there's many PCI TV cards with FM radio tuning features.

And finally the Voodoo3 can't run PSO as is. 😉 The 256x256 texture limit makes the engine hit a wall and abort, and as that's D3D8, you can't mesafx env vars your way out of that.

Ill be using a MSI MS-6163. It's been a decent board for the price of free. I dont think i'll have the room for another card since I'll be using three sound cards (vortex 2, live 5.1 and SB16), an ethernet card, and a fan for the voodoo.

As to pso, I have my dreamcast plugged into the second VGA port of my monitor. Too me, the DC or the GC versions are the ones to play since those are the ones I played when the servers were still up. Man do I miss those times. By the way, I always enjoy reading you posts because of your PSO avatar.

Both are gimmicks but I was wondering which gimmick others enjoyed more I suppose.

Stereo 3D is more interesting. It may be worth tinkering with video capture features on 3dfx though.

That one time I tried video out on a Voodoo 3, it was better than Rage cards, but still kinda "muddy", the GF3 I had did very well with video out, as good as you'd expect to be possible. Voodoo I think has the advantage that it's video out is full time, you can see post screen etc, and use it in plain DOS, whereas I believe the GF3 needs the driver to activate it.

The RF tuner, for which you can often find PCI cards that are practically free, because analog tuners are not real useful, will capture old 8 bits that only had a modulator TV output, (Or that you can only find that adapter for) or, you can grab a TV digital converter box and see modern over the air digital TV in a window at standard def, with it stuck on channel 3, and external channel changing.

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping, detail textures, Dx8\7 compatibility, way better performances in pretty much all games BUT deus ex and probably more stuff that i'm forgetting right now.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:09:

That one time I tried video out on a Voodoo 3, it was better than Rage cards, but still kinda "muddy", the GF3 I had did very well with video out, as good as you'd expect to be possible. Voodoo I think has the advantage that it's video out is full time, you can see post screen etc, and use it in plain DOS, whereas I believe the GF3 needs the driver to activate it.

A few years ago I recorded some PS1 footage using s-video with this voodoo and it was alright. I had never messed with that much before so it was a fun project. I have yet to mess with the inputs of the geforce but I can confirm the output needs to be switched to tv while in windows 98. It does not seem to be able to do both at the same time. I also did some testing with the voodoo a can confirm I was able to just use the TV out to get into the bios. Although something was off with the image on both svideo and composite. I haven't installed windows yet to find out if it also happens there.

iraito wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping, detail textures, Dx8\7 compatibility, way better performances in pretty much all games BUT deus ex and probably more stuff that i'm forgetting right now.

Your comment is why I am going back and forth on these cards. I period correct computer is awesome but it is nice to play 3-d games without performance issues. I guess the real issue I am having is do I go with a period correct computer or use the geforce 3 with a socket 478 motherboard? Sure I lose out on games and different sound cards but for the games that work it'll be awesome. Decisions.. Decisions.

iraito wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping,

IIRC Geforce3 didn't have EMBM. That was more in the domain of ATI Radeon, Matrox G400 and PowerVR Kyro at the time.

leileilol wrote on 2023-03-11, 01:24:

iraito wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping,

IIRC Geforce3 didn't have EMBM. That was more in the domain of ATI Radeon, Matrox G400 and PowerVR Kyro at the time.

Yesterday when I ran 3dmark 2001 on the geforce 3 it ran the test with the alien sitting in the chair which I think is the environmental bump mapping test. But I also was testing a geforce 4 4600. That computer is at work though so I can't confirm that just yet.

Downer wrote on 2023-03-11, 02:16:

leileilol wrote on 2023-03-11, 01:24:

iraito wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping,

IIRC Geforce3 didn't have EMBM. That was more in the domain of ATI Radeon, Matrox G400 and PowerVR Kyro at the time.

Yesterday when I ran 3dmark 2001 on the geforce 3 I think it ran the test with the alien sitting in the chair which I think is the environmental bump mapping test. The geforce 3 got 11906 score as the score with a pentium 4 3.2Ghz. But I also tested a geforce 4 4600. That computer is at work though so I can't confirm that just yet.

I guess if radio is a must have, the choice is clear.

kolderman wrote on 2023-03-11, 02:39:

I guess if radio is a must have, the choice is clear.

It's not that radio is a must have. If you could build a windows 98 computer, which niche thing would you rather have? I can confirm using the radio while playing UT99 hurts the performance but it is neat. Stereoscopic 3d is also cool but you're limited to lower resolutions to maximize FPS and some graphical issues unless you turn certain stuff off if it can be.

Downer wrote on 2023-03-11, 03:17:

If you could build a windows 98 computer, which niche thing would you rather have?

Stereoscopic 3D is a useless gimmick which will give you a literal headache. Since you mentioned not playing games made after the year 2000, go for the Voodoo 3. Especially if you'll be using a CRT monitor at resolutions like 1024x768 and below.

With the Voodoo 3, you get better image quality, Glide support, improved compatibility with older titles and superior dithering (relevant for games which only support 16-bit color depth).

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-03-11, 05:10:

With the Voodoo 3, you get better image quality, Glide support, improved compatibility with older titles and superior dithering (relevant for games which only support 16-bit color depth).

Does it offer more in terms of image quality than the 16-bit enhancements? Does the improved compatibility involve something more than Glide?

Putas wrote on 2023-03-11, 07:54:

Does it offer more in terms of image quality than the 16-bit enhancements?

Better dithering in games which only support 16-bit colors (e.g. System Shock 2 and Thief 1&2) compared to Nvidia and especially ATi cards. Also, analog (VGA) image quality on Nvidia cards before the FX series varied quite a bit depending on the manufacturer, while it was always top notch on the Voodoo 3 (thanks to its STB roots). Not quite as good as Matrox, but close enough.

Does the improved compatibility involve something more than Glide?

Yes, you can only get fog in NFS3 and Carmageddon 2 on Voodoo cards running in Glide mode for example. Also, Nvidia cards newer than the TNT2 don't correctly render the stars in Thief 2. I'm sure there are other examples too.

leileilol wrote on 2023-03-11, 01:24:

iraito wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

I personally think the G3 is overall a waaaaay better card, the V3 is a nice card for period builds and glide but for overall gaming not so much, with the G3 you can enjoy filters at least in older games where the card will not struggle, environmental bump mapping,

IIRC Geforce3 didn't have EMBM. That was more in the domain of ATI Radeon, Matrox G400 and PowerVR Kyro at the time.

It works perfectly in arx fatalis, i tested the game on a G400 and on the G3, the bump mapping looks identical

Downer wrote on 2023-03-10, 18:27:

Your comment is why I am going back and forth on these cards. I period correct computer is awesome but it is nice to play 3-d games without performance issues. I guess the real issue I am having is do I go with a period correct computer or use the geforce 3 with a socket 478 motherboard? Sure I lose out on games and different sound cards but for the games that work it'll be awesome. Decisions.. Decisions.

If you really want to use it, make another build for the voodoo alone.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-03-11, 08:12:

Putas wrote on 2023-03-11, 07:54:

Does it offer more in terms of image quality than the 16-bit enhancements?

Better dithering in games which only support 16-bit colors (e.g. System Shock 2 and Thief 1&2) compared to Nvidia and especially ATi cards. Also, analog (VGA) image quality on Nvidia cards before the FX series varied quite a bit depending on the manufacturer, while it was always top notch on the Voodoo 3 (thanks to its STB roots). Not quite as good as Matrox, but close enough.

There weren't really cheap GeForce3 so the short answer is nothing more.

Putas wrote on 2023-03-11, 07:54:

Does the improved compatibility involve something more than Glide?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-03-11, 08:12:

Yes, you can only get fog in NFS3 and Carmageddon 2 on Voodoo cards running in Glide mode for example. Also, Nvidia cards newer than the TNT2 don't correctly render the stars in Thief 2. I'm sure there are other examples too.

If you dive into concrete features GeForce 3 might offer more extras than the Voodoo.

Putas wrote on 2023-03-11, 12:14:

So the short answer is nothing more.

I realize that image quality isn't particularly high on people's priority list, but it's certainly not "nothing". There's a reason why Matrox cards are held in high regard even to this day, and the Voodoo 3 isn't far behind. That said, most GeForce 3 cards also have DVI output, so if you use that with a compatible LCD monitor, image quality becomes a non-issue. But if you're gaming on a 21" CRT monitor using the card's VGA output, you will notice a difference in sharpness.

I have two GeForce 4 Ti4200 cards (Gainward and MSI), a Matrox G400 and a Voodoo 3, and the image quality difference between them is perceptible to me. Though how much that bothers someone is subjective, I suppose. It's certainly less of an issue while gaming than when working on the desktop.

If you dive into concrete features GeForce 3 might offer more extras than the Voodoo.

To be clear, the GeForce 3 is a better card overall. Having 32-bit color rendering is always a plus, EMBM support is nice too, and the ability to force Anti Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering in (older) games can make them look better. But the thread starter specified that the priority lies with games released up to the year 2000, and that a CRT monitor will be used, which is why my vote went to the Voodoo 3.

Oh, and this is with the assumption that both cards are already in the OP's possession. If this is not the case, then definitively avoid the Voodoo 3. The current prices of 3DFX cards are too insane to waste money on that.