Yes its the card, 3dfx Mexico fab used low quality solder and it started to crack after 20 years.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-28, 01:04:

Yes its the card, 3dfx Mexico fab used low quality solder and it started to crack after 20 years.

Ah. Darn. Thanks. Do you know if there are others from other countries without the issue or is this the fate of all v3 cards in the next Years?

don't know about the issue with that benchmark, but the issue in DOS VGA games is known and has been found to be fixable with a BIOS update here: Voodoo 3 snow/glitches and AGP vs PCI BIOS questions alternatively, try to disable VGA write combining in BIOS.

also duke3d exhibits a similar snow effect during screen tint effects (health/damage) on other cards as well, even in higher VESA modes, nvidia cards seem to be especially affected.

auron wrote on 2023-06-28, 01:33:

don't know about the issue with that benchmark, but the issue in DOS VGA games is known and has been found to be fixable with a BIOS update here: Voodoo 3 snow/glitches and AGP vs PCI BIOS questions alternatively, try to disable VGA write combining in BIOS.

also duke3d exhibits a similar snow effect during screen tint effects (health/damage) on other cards as well, even in higher VESA modes, nvidia cards seem to be especially affected.

Thanks for this thread, and thanks to auron for that link, which contained another link to a thread with the fix that worked for me. I was able to fix my Voodoo3 3500's flickering snow effect in Duke Nukem 3D and other DOS VGA games by disabling write combining in the mobo BIOS (for my P5A it is called Frame Buffer Posted Write).

I would hardly call disabling write combining as a fix, this kills dos Video performance. Another bios suggested in that thread sounds much better.

plus
>I checked some other stuff. Saw it in a benchmark that a slider is displayed incorrectly after the benchmark ran. This was Windows 98.
doesnt look like the same thing, glitches in windows is 99% graphic chip-ram problem (afaik 3dfx windows drivers are solid)

auron wrote on 2023-06-28, 01:33:

don't know about the issue with that benchmark, but the issue in DOS VGA games is known and has been found to be fixable with a BIOS update here: Voodoo 3 snow/glitches and AGP vs PCI BIOS questions alternatively, try to disable VGA write combining in BIOS.

wiibur wrote on 2023-06-28, 03:11:

I was able to fix my Voodoo3 3500's flickering snow effect in Duke Nukem 3D and other DOS VGA games by disabling write combining in the mobo BIOS (for my P5A it is called Frame Buffer Posted Write).

So from I understand it in the other threads its a hardware failure, which can be compensated by these measures?
Wanted to check the Write Combining thing, but I dont think my Bios has an option for that.
I checked a tool called CTU: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/k6-2-2-3-resources.html
And disabled write combining there, started Duke 3D via Windows, but the same issues apply at 320x200

So before potentially bricking it by applying the wrong Bios or Setting or anything like that I better try to return it...
Question would then be whether or not it makes sense to buy another one or if I'd end up with the same issues.

auron wrote on 2023-06-28, 01:33:

also duke3d exhibits a similar snow effect during screen tint effects (health/damage) on other cards as well, even in higher VESA modes, nvidia cards seem to be especially affected.

This is a different issue though. I saw some glitches on Nvidia cards (its more like flickering). But thats not the case here. Here I got horizontal snow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wV7nwwS-cU

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-28, 05:08:

I would hardly call disabling write combining as a fix, this kills dos Video performance. Another bios suggested in that thread […]
Show full quote

I would hardly call disabling write combining as a fix, this kills dos Video performance. Another bios suggested in that thread sounds much better.

plus
>I checked some other stuff. Saw it in a benchmark that a slider is displayed incorrectly after the benchmark ran. This was Windows 98.
doesnt look like the same thing, glitches in windows is 99% graphic chip-ram problem (afaik 3dfx windows drivers are solid)

Yeah, the performance hit in a couple benchmarks was around 50%. Yikes. Unfortunately, there seem to only be 2 bios versions for my card (v3 3500) and the earlier version doesn't flash to my card successfully. Hope it works for Kordanor though.

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-28, 09:16:

So before potentially bricking it by applying the wrong Bios or Setting or anything like that I better try to return it...
Question would then be whether or not it makes sense to buy another one or if I'd end up with the same issues.

FYI Kordanor, there is the utility Bios TSR App that lets you test flash the card (3dfx flash utils).

wiibur wrote on 2023-06-28, 09:34:

Yeah, the performance hit in a couple benchmarks was around 50%. Yikes. Unfortunately, there seem to only be 2 bios versions for […]
Show full quote

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-28, 05:08:

I would hardly call disabling write combining as a fix, this kills dos Video performance. Another bios suggested in that thread […]
Show full quote

I would hardly call disabling write combining as a fix, this kills dos Video performance. Another bios suggested in that thread sounds much better.

plus
>I checked some other stuff. Saw it in a benchmark that a slider is displayed incorrectly after the benchmark ran. This was Windows 98.
doesnt look like the same thing, glitches in windows is 99% graphic chip-ram problem (afaik 3dfx windows drivers are solid)

Yeah, the performance hit in a couple benchmarks was around 50%. Yikes. Unfortunately, there seem to only be 2 bios versions for my card (v3 3500) and the earlier version doesn't flash to my card successfully. Hope it works for Kordanor though.

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-28, 09:16:

So before potentially bricking it by applying the wrong Bios or Setting or anything like that I better try to return it...
Question would then be whether or not it makes sense to buy another one or if I'd end up with the same issues.

FYI Kordanor, there is the utility Bios TSR App that lets you test flash the card (3dfx flash utils).

Thank you. This page is dead btw.
However the files can also be downloaded by https://www.3dfxzone.it/

However there are no instructions on it, I am afraid of borking something, and the vendor already accepted the return request. So...for now I will return it, and then think about giving it another try (buying another V3 card) or rather getting a Nvidia card to work on my ali board, which is another world of pain.

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-27, 20:19:

Just noticed that on my Voodoo 3 card I got some pixel artifacts going on. […]
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Just noticed that on my Voodoo 3 card I got some pixel artifacts going on.

I am playing Jagged Alliance and noticed this: When dragging items around it lives some colored pixels. They dont even go away if you move over it again. If you switch to a different screen though, they will go away. This is DOS.

Then I found this thread: Re: Voodoo 3 "baking"?
Reporting something similar, but also a bit different.

I checked some other stuff. Saw it in a benchmark that a slider is displayed incorrectly after the benchmark ran. This was Windows 98.

And also noticed flickering on Duke Nukem 3D, but only on 320x200.

I exchanged the Card for a Geforce 4, and there I dont have the issue in Jagged Alliance or Duke Nukem 3D.

So is this a common issue on Voodoo 3 cards? Is it some bios setting which could fix it?

I am not going to solder or modify the hardware, but if I get a quick response that its clearly the card, I might still be able to send it back.

Video Example 1:
https://youtu.be/7wV7nwwS-cU

Video Example 2:
https://youtu.be/Ts1oRvRtYuM

windows.pngartifacts.PNG

Hi. Artifacts are mainly related to corrupted memory which probably need replacement (soldering work) secondly bios likes to get corrupted on voodoo3 cards quiet often.
flashing the bios doesn't cost you anything, do it carefully or if not sure give to someone with experience, if that doesn't help I recommend changing memory chips all (if one is corrupted the other might be soon too), also good practive restoring voodoo3 is to replace capacitors as well as thermal grease, check cooling fan is ok if not then replace as well (cheap and easay if) and clean golden fingers agp/pci connector.
With this steps you could give your beloved 3dfx card a second life
Regards

Godlike wrote on 2023-06-28, 11:48:

Hi. Artifacts are mainly related to corrupted memory which probably need replacement (soldering work) secondly bios likes to get […]
Show full quote

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-27, 20:19:

Just noticed that on my Voodoo 3 card I got some pixel artifacts going on. […]
Show full quote

Just noticed that on my Voodoo 3 card I got some pixel artifacts going on.

I am playing Jagged Alliance and noticed this: When dragging items around it lives some colored pixels. They dont even go away if you move over it again. If you switch to a different screen though, they will go away. This is DOS.

Then I found this thread: Re: Voodoo 3 "baking"?
Reporting something similar, but also a bit different.

I checked some other stuff. Saw it in a benchmark that a slider is displayed incorrectly after the benchmark ran. This was Windows 98.

And also noticed flickering on Duke Nukem 3D, but only on 320x200.

I exchanged the Card for a Geforce 4, and there I dont have the issue in Jagged Alliance or Duke Nukem 3D.

So is this a common issue on Voodoo 3 cards? Is it some bios setting which could fix it?

I am not going to solder or modify the hardware, but if I get a quick response that its clearly the card, I might still be able to send it back.

Video Example 1:
https://youtu.be/7wV7nwwS-cU

Video Example 2:
https://youtu.be/Ts1oRvRtYuM

windows.pngartifacts.PNG

Hi. Artifacts are mainly related to corrupted memory which probably need replacement (soldering work) secondly bios likes to get corrupted on voodoo3 cards quiet often.
flashing the bios doesn't cost you anything, do it carefully or if not sure give to someone with experience, if that doesn't help I recommend changing memory chips all (if one is corrupted the other might be soon too), also good practive restoring voodoo3 is to replace capacitors as well as thermal grease, check cooling fan is ok if not then replace as well (cheap and easay if) and clean golden fingers agp/pci connector.
With this steps you could give your beloved 3dfx card a second life
Regards

Thank you. Well, its not quite that beloved. I just bought it, which is why I opted for returning it. ^^
While I do minor soldering jobs, that kind of intricate stuff is beyond my skills I guess and after that I also couldnt return it anymore. But its good to know that the bios can get corrupted as well (and then be fixed)

The DOS artifacts can be easily solved (unless you have other/different artifacts which are caused by faulty hardware).
See the following thread, starting with this post:
Re: Voodoo 3 2000 Artifacts and noisy video.

Edit: Just saw your Duke3D video and, yeah, it's the same type of DOS artifacts which are solved by modifying a BIOS memory register (the Voodoo 3's BIOS, that is).

bloodem wrote on 2023-06-28, 12:10:

The DOS artifacts can be easily solved (unless you have other/different artifacts which are caused by faulty hardware). See the […]
Show full quote

The DOS artifacts can be easily solved (unless you have other/different artifacts which are caused by faulty hardware).
See the following thread, starting with this post:
Re: Voodoo 3 2000 Artifacts and noisy video.

Edit: Just saw your Duke3D video and, yeah, it's the same type of DOS artifacts which are solved by modifying a BIOS memory register (the Voodoo 3's BIOS, that is).

Thank you! Just modified my voodoo3 3500 bios (2.15.05 ntsc) with the tdfx bios editor to change draminit1 refresh_load value to 256. I flashed it to my card and the artifacts are now gone in Duke3D, with write combining enabled in the mobo bios.

wiibur wrote on 2023-06-28, 13:11:

bloodem wrote on 2023-06-28, 12:10:

The DOS artifacts can be easily solved (unless you have other/different artifacts which are caused by faulty hardware). See the […]
Show full quote

The DOS artifacts can be easily solved (unless you have other/different artifacts which are caused by faulty hardware).
See the following thread, starting with this post:
Re: Voodoo 3 2000 Artifacts and noisy video.

Edit: Just saw your Duke3D video and, yeah, it's the same type of DOS artifacts which are solved by modifying a BIOS memory register (the Voodoo 3's BIOS, that is).

Thank you! Just modified my voodoo3 3500 bios (2.15.05 ntsc) with the tdfx bios editor to change draminit1 refresh_load value to 256. I flashed it to my card and the artifacts are now gone in Duke3D, with write combining enabled in the mobo bios.

do you also have Jagged Alliance by any chance and could test it?
(just go into equipment menu and drag some items around and see if any "pixels" of the background get screwed)

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-28, 13:13:

do you also have Jagged Alliance by any chance and could test it?
(just go into equipment menu and drag some items around and see if any "pixels" of the background get screwed)

I tested it in Jagged Alliance and none of the equipment menu background pixels get corrupted and there is no artifacting on the hand when moving things, either. I would recommend you give this a shot before returning your card. Like I said earlier, you can use a test flash program to fake flash the card and then run a game to check for the issue. Then if that works actually flash the card for real.

Thank you!
Card has already been sent on its way, but a new card is already on the way to me...and that one got the same issue (but the card I sent back also had a capacitor which was a bit sketchy). So once I received that I will give it a try.

wiibur wrote on 2023-06-28, 14:18:

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-28, 13:13:

do you also have Jagged Alliance by any chance and could test it?
(just go into equipment menu and drag some items around and see if any "pixels" of the background get screwed)

I tested it in Jagged Alliance and none of the equipment menu background pixels get corrupted and there is no artifacting on the hand when moving things, either. I would recommend you give this a shot before returning your card. Like I said earlier, you can use a test flash program to fake flash the card and then run a game to check for the issue. Then if that works actually flash the card for real.

New card is going to arrive on Saturday it seems like.
When I started the flash tool before it asked to onput the bios (which I guess is just the file you download) but also a video mode. I think it was 1-5. Any Idea what this means?

Kordanor wrote on 2023-06-29, 17:13:

When I started the flash tool before it asked to onput the bios (which I guess is just the file you download) but also a video mode. I think it was 1-5. Any Idea what this means?

I did not experiment with the "-tM" TV mode argument and ran the flash command without it. I assumed it was related to the TV/FM Tuner functions of the card, which are not important to me for gaming.

I just received my new voodoo 3 today, and well, it seems like I accidently received a 3500 instead of the promised 3000. But I take that ^^
Ofc it got the same problems

Now I wanted to change the refresh_load value to 256 with the tdfx bios editor as was mentioned. However that program apparently needs the bios as a file.
So I read through the read at Voodoo 3 2000 Artifacts and noisy video. and some other sources... I actually wanted to check which BIOS version I got.
I do not have a splash screen at start up. Everest does not show the BIOS version (but its there where I saw its a 3500 after I already wondered that the benchmarks were higher), the current AIDA 64 does not actually run on 98, and CPUID ended with a bluescreen.

On https://3dfxbios.cl-rahden.de/index.php?title=Voodoo3 there are not actually that many different versions for a 3500. But how should I proceed here? Just update my bios with a random PAL version (well I guess my card is PAL, I know it got SD ram and its AGP but that doesnt seem to be a factor in 3500 anyways), and then modify the backup and then reupload the backup? Isnt there any more elegant version to just "Backup" the current bios without killing (and potentially bricking) it?

Soo...I tried my luck, flashed the bios and ... of course I bricked the card and the PC doesnt boot anymore.

Added PCI card and changed BIOS to boot from PCI first, then flashed the BIOS again
V3_3500_AGP_SD_2.15.05_PAL -> Error
V3_3500_AGP_SD_2.15.03_PAL -> Error
V3_3500_AGP_SD_2.15.05_Compaq -> Success

Then loaded the Compaq bios with tdfx and changed the draminit1 refresh_load value to 256, saved again. And flashed to this edited BIOS. This fixed the issue.

Tools used:
The BIOS: https://3dfxbios.cl-rahden.de/index.php?title … 5.05_Compaq.zip
Flashing tool (3dfx_flash_2.14 ): https://3dfxbios.cl-rahden.de/index.php?title=Flash-Tools
TDFX Editor (to be run on main PC): https://3dfxbios.cl-rahden.de/images/3/31/Tdf … editor_1.62.zip