I'm not sure whether it can help but I've got the official driver CD that came with my ASUS AGP-V3800 Ultra Deluxe. It is labelled with "Drivers & Utilities Rev.2.08" and V083.

=======================================================================
ASUS V3400TNT/V3800 Series Driver CD
=======================================================================

Directory List
--------------

1\ASUSLIVE       ASUS Live video-in viewer and capture utility
2\AutoRun.34     V3400TNT autorun programs directory
3\AutoRun.38     V3800 series autorun programs directory
4\DirectX6       Microsoft DirectX 6 runtime library
5\Manual         User's manual in PDF format
6\NT40           Video driver for Windows NT 4.0
7\TWAIN          ASUS TWAIN driver
8\Tweak          ASUS tweaking Utility
9\VgartD         AGP GART Drivers for Intel, VIA & ALi AGP chipsets
10\VR_Pics        Some VR pictures for VRViewer
11\Win9x          Video driver & applications for Windows 95, OSR 2.1
12                and Windows 98

Are you sure you have installed the GART Driver too?

It might be something with the GUI accelerator part of the chip. In DOS this part isn't used, it also isn't used in Windows standard modes. While in Windows with proper drivers it needs to work.

Disruptor wrote on 2023-07-27, 07:18:

I'm not sure whether it can help but I've got the official driver CD that came with my ASUS AGP-V3800 Ultra Deluxe. It is labelled with "Drivers & Utilities Rev.2.08" and V083.
(...)
Are you sure you have installed the GART Driver too?

Thanks for the offer but don't think that's necessary, I have tried drivers 2.25 from the FTP, 6.3.1 I found somewhere else online, and also have an .iso of an ASUS drivers CD for the V3400/V3800 that is a bit later than yours it seems (installs drivers 2.26). Same behavior in all cases. I have tried again from scratch, making sure the IRQ VGA bios option was set as I found it as a requirement in the troubleshooting section of the official manual, and still the same issue.

kixs wrote on 2023-07-27, 07:47:

It might be something with the GUI accelerator part of the chip. In DOS this part isn't used, it also isn't used in Windows standard modes. While in Windows with proper drivers it needs to work.

Interesting, and this gave me the idea to completely disable graphics hardware acceleration in Windows and try again, and the same still happens.
I may as well just try to install WinXP and see if it behaves any different now.

The plot thickens...kinda. Installed a fresh XP on the same hardware, card is detected, installed the official XP drivers off ASUS' website.
Card is identified correctly in device manager, but has a yellow exclamation mark and "device cannot be started". Yet it works, and under XP has no problem in any resolution and/or color depth...

Something must definitely be wrong with the card. Oh well. It wouldn't be the hardest loss in the history of retro hardware, but it still frustrates me to not be able to get to the bottom of troubleshooting.

But does it use the driver? WinXP can do video modes without proper driver.

Yup you must be right. I wasn't exactly sure how, but as the card appears with an exclamation mark and says the hardware cannot be started (code 10), I suspected something like this to be happening. Oh well...as said, not the worst loss but it's a cool little card, with all the optional connectors including the VR glasses one. I remember having a bundle that included the glasses back in the days...this may just as well have been this very card, but it's all long gone, card and accessories. This one I got later on, in a cheap bundle of AGP cards I bought from classified ads I believe.

XP is rather late for a TNT2 video card. Hence the exclamation mark.

May need to get another TNT2 by diamond V770. Or Geforce2 MX400. Bit faster than TNT2 Ultra and cheaper to get. Be careful to get full 128bit MX400.

Cheers,

The exclamation mark means that the ASUS driver failed to load. That is why you are using Windows xp's default driver instead.

The issue with the black screen sounds very much like there is everything fine with your card. The driver in Windows 98 just sets the porches in a way, that your screen can't handle. If you were using a HDMI cable, then try a VGA cable instead, if possible, because the compatibility will be better. As an alternative you can try a different screen. I doubt that the driver allows you to set the porches manually. There are not many drivers which have this capability.

Why do you think that there is definitely something wrong with your hardware (graphics card) when it works just fine with a different software (Windows xp's default graphics driver)?

Hey, thanks, but the idea was really to try and "save" (or at least understand the issue with) this specific card. I was using XP as a test only to compare with my 98 results.

I really doubt the exclamation mark has anything to do with the card being old for XP...card was released in 99, XP in 2001, I expect a lot of people to be running such hardware when they upgraded to XP, and also the fact there are official ASUS drivers for this card on XP (still available today on ASUS website).

No offense but that's a lot of assuming without asking questions first, and stuff that was previously addressed.

Start me up wrote on 2023-07-28, 07:33:

The exclamation mark means that the ASUS driver failed to load. That is why you are using Windows xp's default driver instead.

No way!?

The issue with the black screen sounds very much like there is everything fine with your card. The driver in Windows 98 just sets the porches in a way, that your screen can't handle. If you were using a HDMI cable, then try a VGA cable instead, if possible, because the compatibility will be better. As an alternative you can try a different screen. I doubt that the driver allows you to set the porches manually. There are not many drivers which have this capability.

The black screen sounds like everything is fine with my card? Care to elaborate?
What do you mean by "porches"? This is tested on two different motherboards on two different CRT screens.
In any case, you're walking down a completely wrong track that is assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about, on a hobbyist forum...

Why do you think that there is definitely something wrong with your hardware (graphics card) when it works just fine with a different software (Windows xp's default graphics driver)?

I think there is a problem with the card because the card is having problems. I assume it's hardware because the card hasn't been behaving properly on two different configurations with multiple driver versions.
If you think there are more things software-wise that would be worth a try, I'm all ears, my test bench is ready.

ok VGA sync, front and back porch, I've learned something new.

I still don't think that has anything to do with my problem though. But as said, happy to test anything.

Boohyaka wrote on 2023-07-28, 08:25:

Start me up wrote on 2023-07-28, 07:33:

The exclamation mark means that the ASUS driver failed to load. That is why you are using Windows xp's default driver instead.

No way!?

Well, I'm not quite sure if you are serious or you are trying to make fun of my comment. I read your comment that everything was fine in Windows xp while Windows tried to tell you, that it's not:

Card is identified correctly in device manager, but has a yellow exclamation mark and "device cannot be started". Yet it works, and under XP has no problem

So I wasn't sure if you got the message that Windows is not using the ASUS driver and pointed it out.

In any case, you're walking down a completely wrong track that is assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about, on a hobbyist forum...What do you mean by "porches"?

Yes, I was talking about the front and back porches as well as the synchronization pulses. I am glad that you figured this out so quickly with all your knowledge.

Look, I'm just trying to help and I might be wrong with my idea. But what you described sounded like an incorrect setting of the porches to me. Every screen has it's own range of values it accepts. What works on one screen does not automatically work on another screen. Also, if you have a screen with a VGA and a DVI or HDMI connector then your screen needs different values depending on which connector you are using. This is why I suggested that you try a different cable (VGA instead of HDMI if possible) and a different screen.

The values also depend on the screen resolution and refreshing rate. That is why the theory makes even more sense since you get an output at 640x480x60 FPS.

The driver author does not know the values, your screen needs and they are not standardized. So most driver authors choose values, of which they think that should work on many screens. If they don't, then you have a black screen or your screen can display certain display modes and others not.

This is tested on two different CRT screens.

Well, now that this is done, you still got another chance by using the Universal VBE Display Driver. The default driver of Windows XP also uses VBE which seems to work for you. I think the Universal VBE Display Driver is compatible with Windows 98. I personally haven't made good experience with this driver but it might be worth checking.

If this also fails, then you might have access to an oscilloscope and check what your card outputs - if anything.

But go ahead, do what you like. If you like to discard your card, then discard it. If you like to keep it, then keep it. Why should I care? I wasn't looking for a fight about who is wrong or right or who has more knowledge about the topic.

Hey man, let's reboot. I came out as irritated, that's kinda out of character for me and for this I apologize. I definitely don't consider myself highly knowledgeable on the most technical aspects and internal hardware dark magic, yet I have enough experience for some troubleshooting and applying some logic at least...or so I hope.
This place is unique for the collective knowledge and skills and I appreciate and respect it a lot. It's why I am posting here when I can't figure something out on my own. I learn new stuff almost daily just by lurking the different forums. Anyways back on topic.

Your porch settings idea still sounds like a dead end to me for several reasons, yet I am happy to learn something new and be proven wrong. My empirical train of thoughts is as follows:
- The settings cannot be stored on the card itself as far as I know, so it would be software related. You even said earlier that drivers with such capabilities are rare. So...where would these wrong settings initially come from (certainly not from the factory), and how would they stick to the card going from one machine to the other?
- In addition to the previous point, this is a consumer AGP card from ASUS, an actually very common one back in the days, and I'm not trying some highly complex or peculiar workflow: I'm trying to change display settings from the "standard" 640x480x16colors using several versions of the proper drivers for this card, on two different period-correct builds, and two period-correct CRT's. This is as default as it gets, and I've been running several computers + benchmarking a plethora of hardware on these very builds and screens, there's nothing exotic about any of it.
- In both builds under Win98 the same issue of getting an active blackscreen in Win98 happens as soon as I set it up to something else than the default 640x480x16colors. In some cases, I got a working cursor on top of the blackscreen. In both cases, switching to another AGP card and installing its drivers and there's absolutely no problem anymore.
- The same card in XP cannot initialize the drivers properly, but somewhat "works". I am definitely not an expert to explain the difference between 98 vs XP handling of devices and generic drivers, so yeah it was kinda a surprise to see such a different behavior under XP. But thinking about it, the issue is different: in 98 the driver for the card is used, in XP the drivers fails to start and a generic one is used instead, it's not a direct comparison of Win98 vs WinXP default VGA driver capabilities.

The logical conclusion to me is that there's a problem with the card and/or Windows drivers, as I haven't been able to reproduce the issue under DOS. The card is the only common denominator. And I highly doubt an ASUS highly popular consumer card would be unable to accomodate standard resolutions under Win98 on a CRT. Adding the fact that the official XP drivers off ASUS website for this very card also fails to load just feels like another big argument for the card having an issue in my opinion.

I definitely feel an itch to purchase an oscilloscope as I'd love to get more into electronics, so I might take up on your suggestion 😀

And again I'm not trying to use that card at all costs and find workarounds, VBE drivers under Windows etc... I just never like to get rid of hardware without trying to save them first, and it would be an excellent occasion to maybe learn something new. It's a neat and iconic card/chip from an era I like, I'd be happy to save it, but if nothing can be done it's fine as well. I'm currently running a Rage 128 Pro instead in that particular build and it's just as fine.

Sorry again for my poor mood earlier, and if you think there are holes or mistakes in my assumptions and train of thoughts and/or if you have more diagnostic ideas, I'd be glad to read it.

Very well, let's move on.

When you wrote, that you tested it on 2 different CRT screens, that was already a good point against my theory, that the issue was related to an incorrect setting of the porches. This test was what I asked for, you tested it, and therefore I am thankful.

If you have an urge to test the driver I mentioned, here it is:
https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/vbe9x.htm
But, because of the bad experience I made with this driver I do advise a backup before installing it.

By now I am out of ideas, what the exact cause of the issue could be.