No response from the seller...
I'd be happy to test the drivers, but not until next week.
Stay tuned. 😉

Demolition-Man wrote on 2023-08-11, 16:13:

No response from the seller...
I'd be happy to test the drivers, but not until next week.
Stay tuned. 😉

You don’t need a response from the seller, in fact ‘no response’ is a good thing.

dormcat wrote on 2023-08-10, 21:35:

matze79 wrote on 2023-08-10, 20:39:

The Card should work in Windows 2000/XP, i`m pretty sure it was never meant to run inside a SS7 PC with Windows 98.

The M7-P chip was released back in December 2001 when Win9x was still more common than WinXP; Catalyst 6.2, the last driver supporting this chip, was released as late as February 2005. The chip was designed as an IGP using AGP 4x bus though. The PCB itself was "manufactured" in 2011 when Radeon HD 7500M was around the corner, which didn't make any sense. IMHO the M7-P was recycled from laptops and integrated onto a new PCB to be sold as a "discrete graphics card" to unsuspecting customers.

then you could also say "replica adlibs" are scam. because they use salvaged OPL2 Chips haha

matze79 wrote on 2023-08-15, 18:32:

dormcat wrote on 2023-08-10, 21:35:

matze79 wrote on 2023-08-10, 20:39:

The Card should work in Windows 2000/XP, i`m pretty sure it was never meant to run inside a SS7 PC with Windows 98.

The M7-P chip was released back in December 2001 when Win9x was still more common than WinXP; Catalyst 6.2, the last driver supporting this chip, was released as late as February 2005. The chip was designed as an IGP using AGP 4x bus though. The PCB itself was "manufactured" in 2011 when Radeon HD 7500M was around the corner, which didn't make any sense. IMHO the M7-P was recycled from laptops and integrated onto a new PCB to be sold as a "discrete graphics card" to unsuspecting customers.

then you could also say "replica adlibs" are scam. because they use salvaged OPL2 Chips haha

IMHO whether the maker/seller being honest or not makes a big difference i.e. if the potential buyer has been informed and fully understands that some components are salvaged from retired systems.

How do you know that the ICs are salvaged ? they could be also old stock.
Accusing someone for fraud without proof isnt acceptable.

The M7-P is still a Radeon 7500, even if its mobile usually they send driver cd up road with this sort of cards.
As TO told this is private seller, and therefore you can`t expect he/she removes the heatsink from cards and tell excat specs of each part.

matze79 wrote on 2023-08-17, 06:44:

How do you know that the ICs are salvaged ? they could be also old stock. Accusing someone for fraud without proof isnt acceptab […]
Show full quote

How do you know that the ICs are salvaged ? they could be also old stock.
Accusing someone for fraud without proof isnt acceptable.

The M7-P is still a Radeon 7500, even if its mobile usually they send driver cd up road with this sort of cards.
As TO told this is private seller, and therefore you can`t expect he/she removes the heatsink from cards and tell excat specs of each part.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment. I don’t really know that I would call this card a fraud as I believe if you get the right drivers that it actually probably would work just maybe this card isn’t what most buyers are expecting. I mean it actually might be kind of a cool card to have in my collection a mobile GPU product on a desktop card, if we manage to get it working properly, I might grab one for a few tests. It’s a interesting concept and would be a nice collection piece.

A guy from our DOS forum, found the right drivers.
Not so bad after all, in Windows 98. 😉

Funny little bug in 3DMArk 99, first two games have a framecap @38fps, but everything else is working.
Too bad the card ist faulty under DOS, and doesnt work on my Super Socket 7 PCs.

A very curious card, I personally love these creative solutions from the Chinese, use what they have available and do something useful, I love it, and even if they are salvaged chips, if they do it well, it is better to reuse than recycle. I have two Rage XL PCI cards that work perfectly, and I don't care if they are old stock chips or salvaged from somewhere.
I would love to have a card like the one in this thread. A laptop chip on a desktop card... does that heatsink get hot?
Edit: I found one on Ebay, but for me it doesn't cost a quarter of what they ask for... so...

matze79 wrote on 2023-08-17, 06:44:

How do you know that the ICs are salvaged ? they could be also old stock. Accusing someone for fraud without proof isnt acceptab […]
Show full quote

How do you know that the ICs are salvaged ? they could be also old stock.
Accusing someone for fraud without proof isnt acceptable.

The M7-P is still a Radeon 7500, even if its mobile usually they send driver cd up road with this sort of cards.
As TO told this is private seller, and therefore you can`t expect he/she removes the heatsink from cards and tell excat specs of each part.

You are the one who equate salvaging with fraud, not me.

Salvaging and "Frankensteining" are good and fun -- we have a "dumpster find" thread don't we? -- as long as source materials are legitimate, and any buyer/successor of the item is fully aware of its status and condition.

You want proof? I already pointed out several and could add a few, even without heatsink removed:

• The sticker with lower case "china"
• The tilted orange "ATi Radeon" printed on the heatsink, with an oversized ® (compare it with ® on the chip)
• Soldered MOSFET on U25, U15, and U26 (too fuzzy to be sure if the numbering is correct) look very "hand-made"

Once the heatsink had been removed, more evidences surfaced:

• The chip is a Mobility Radeon 7500 but the sticker "forgets" the word Mobility
• The ellipse-shaped warranty sticker "鹏程电子 2011 撕毁无效" on the chip; being underneath the heatsink, this is not a logical location for this type of warranty sticker (should be on the heatsink screw/plastic clamp so it breaks if the heatsink is removed)

The seller who sold it to Demolition-Man might not be the original owner so not being tech-savvy is not relevant in this case. Even if s/he was, the fishy part could be on the maker's; I did write "maker/seller" didn't I?

Furthermore, if the maker advertised "hey we've got some new old stock / salvaged but tested Mobility Radeon 7500 chips so we designed a new PCI PCB for your S7 retro rig without AGP slot!" then I'd be perfectly fine with the product and applauded their ingenuity. However, from evidences listed above I don't think that's the case.

IMNSHO someone who can't tell grave accent from apostrophe has no stance to reprimand someone who can tell a fraud from the shape of a comma.

Demolition-Man wrote on 2023-08-17, 12:55:

Funny little bug in 3DMArk 99, first two games have a framecap @38fps, but everything else is working.

That's not a bug (well, on second thought, it might count as a 3DMark99 bug, yes), it's simply VSYNC which is active (your monitor's refresh rate is probably 75 Hz and 38 FPS is roughly half, since your card can't handle 75+ FPS).
You need to disable VSYNC for all Direct3D applications from within the driver settings (most ATI/Omega drivers from that era should have that option) or using RivaTuner/other similar apps.

Well, the card was sold as a "Radeon 7500", with the word "Mobility" missing.

Not a fraud on the seller's part (the ones who made the card committed that), but it can definitely be considered a false listing. It is technically eligible for a refund.

eddman wrote on 2023-08-17, 14:18:

Well, the card was sold as a "Radeon 7500", with the word "Mobility" missing.

Not a fraud on the seller's part (the ones who made the card committed that), but it can definitely be considered a false listing. It is technically eligible for a refund.

For sure it is. 😀 The Mobility 7500 is a worse chip in every possible way.
As for the seller... you can call me old fashioned, but if I personally sell something, I make damn sure that I know what the hell I'm selling.
If the seller does not care enough to bother with "little details" like these (i.e. he is focused on quantity rather than quality), then he should also be prepared to face an eBay case ever so often.

You need to disable VSYNC for all Direct3D applications from within the driver settings ...

The driver settings are not working properly, but vsync is off, thx.
Testing....
Yeah faster game tests but the filtering tests ist neraly skipped, or too fast, or buggy.^^
3771 3DMarks. (99)

Still questions:
Was there a real 7500 PCI? There was a 7000 PCI for sure. From Sapphire?
The PCI slot is slowig things down?
The card boots on the slower SS7 PCs but then you will get a blackscreen. Maybe the card draws too much power?
Possibly the PCI slot differ at least the revision?
Any information ob the DOS compatibility? (Ati 7XXX cards)

This is how dosbench test 4 looks like...

It is true that the card is not what was advertised, in case it was only advertised as "Radeon 7500".
It is not a "Radeon 7500" it is a "Mobility Radeon 7500"
Something like this happened to me with a Radeon 9600 pro that was not the chip of a 9600 pro either, it was a "normal" 9600. In that case the price was very good and even if I reported the problem to the seller, I kept the card out of curiosity. And didn't ask for a return/refund.
In my opinion, if the price was similar to that of other "Radeon 7500", as I have seen, I would require a return/refund because the item is not as advertised. And in this case is a big mistake
And of course is the fault of the seller. In this case it is a big mistake, I would say that the seller did not test the card, which when installing the drivers clearly says "Mobility Radeon 7500"

I am sorry, but what's printed on the label? Radeon 7500 PCI, right? No Radeon Mobility 7500 PCI. And for me, this means the card is not marked correctly and the buyer has been misled, because the RV200 GPU in R7500 is in a different configuration and more powerful than the M7 GPU in Mobility.

The seller responded, also fell for the scam and couldn't get the card to work. Should I make trouble now because of the few bucks? It works now...kind off.
Most DOS Games are working. Tested only an hand full. Its a Socket A machine, (Duron 900) without isa slot, and with sbemu. Some games wont work anyway.
Not bad.
I've already received offers to buy it, but I don't even know anymore whether I want to get rid of the card at all. Makes little sense in a PC with an AGP slot. But I'm still testing a bit further.

If it were me and the card was cheap in my opinion, I would keep it, in the end it is a PCI card that can save any computer from being useless to being interesting, if you limit it to DX6 or older games, it will surely give adequate performance not stellar but adequate. For example, if it were to work on a Socket 7 board, not SS7 which have AGP for the most part. But even there.....

I`m really not sure. Serious Sam keeps freezing. Could be something else.
Enough testing for today....

Demolition-Man wrote on 2023-08-17, 18:03:

The seller responded, also fell for the scam and couldn't get the card to work. Should I make trouble now because of the few buc […]
Show full quote

The seller responded, also fell for the scam and couldn't get the card to work. Should I make trouble now because of the few bucks? It works now...kind off.
Most DOS Games are working. Tested only an hand full. Its a Socket A machine, (Duron 900) without isa slot, and with sbemu. Some games wont work anyway.
Not bad.
I've already received offers to buy it, but I don't even know anymore whether I want to get rid of the card at all. Makes little sense in a PC with an AGP slot. But I'm still testing a bit further.

The first seller was the card manufacturer who incorrectly (incompletely) marked it on the label, not seller from Ebay or so (if it is not the same subject). I don't even want to say the card is useless, except that it's less powerful than a genuine Radeon 7500 with RV200 and needs a different driver.
If you need a PCI card and at least somehow this one works for you, feel free to keep it.