vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 12:36:

It is an early 3D card, you're listing the characteristics. It's Matrox pushing older stuff on the office market with random 3D quality of life updates.

Ok, it's relaunched older stuff with some "upgrades", but this doesn't excuse the fact that these "upgrades" are actually broken features from the older generation GPU. And as I already wrote, we're looking at the year of release, right? It would have been justified, if Productiva was Matrox's first 3D videocard on the market, but it's not.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2024-01-26, 12:42:

Instead of the mystique and the g200, the g100 gives me headaches on amithlon too...no native acceleration and vesa also broken...even mystique is just fine here.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2024-01-26, 12:44:

bilinear filtering on very early 3d cards is no a must have for me...the alpha? blending is the bigger weakness...
mystique is a very fast early 3D accelrator, but not so much games offered support in form of degrading missing features of the card. WC5 is a good example. Mystique is fine here and looks beautiful.

This only reaffirms my thesis that these MGA-G100 Productiva videocard have nothing to do with 3D-accelerators, which were far more adequate for the time. So I'll continue to call it cheap AGP-garbage.

P.S. Update.
Let's summarize what we get with Matrox MGA-G100 Productiva:
- mostly poor 3D performance (for the time it was released)
- broken MSI API support
- no "out of the box" OpenGL support
- poor bilinear filtering
- broken level of detail for 3D models
- broken alpha blending
...
- broken VESA modes

True multi-bit alpha, smooth textures, twice the performance.

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 14:59:

True multi-bit alpha, smooth textures, twice the performance.

Really?!
Nein, danke! I can easily find more adequate AGP 3D cards than this Matrox MGA-G100 that came out in the same time period and they're also with price tag of under EUR 10 as they're mostly considered as "useless scrap" on the online and real flea/second hand-markets here (for example RIVA TNT). MGA-G200 is also better than G100 in any aspect and still it's not a rare videocard, but it lacks MSI API support too, so it's not of any interest to me.

I'll just wait for Millenium II or Mystique (220) at reasonable price for some s7 or slot1 "exotic build", as I don't collect old useless videocards in my closet.

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 14:59:

True multi-bit alpha, smooth textures, twice the performance.

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 15:47:

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

Maybe he's very impressed by this unique multi-bit-alpha-dither-blending-don't-know-how-to-call-it shady effect. I have no words to describe such a 3D-picture quality 😁

I guess he chose screenshots from the least buggy i.e. most G100-compatible games, just to prove what a good cheap 3D accelerator is this trashy Productiva card.

How much was the price of the G100 in its time? Compared to the much more discussed G200 cards, this one always was quite uncommon in my country. The G200 instead had great marketing in newspapers. Like most other company I wonder if they had a difficult time to find the right balance and market position back then.

analog_programmer wrote on 2024-01-26, 16:08:

Maybe he's very impressed by this unique multi-bit-alpha-dither-blending-don't-know-how-to-call-it shady effect. I have no words […]
Show full quote

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 15:47:

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

Maybe he's very impressed by this unique multi-bit-alpha-dither-blending-don't-know-how-to-call-it shady effect. I have no words to describe such a 3D-picture quality 😁
awesome_multi-bit_alpha_whatever_dithering.jpg

I guess he chose screenshots from the least buggy i.e. most G100-compatible games, just to prove what a good cheap 3D accelerator is this trashy Productiva card.

Was that usually referred to as dithered or stippled alpha back then?

DrAnthony wrote on 2024-01-26, 18:11:

Was that usually referred to as dithered or stippled alpha back then?

Have no idea how they call this pixelized mess, but back then I've seen such a blending quality only with low-res software 3D-rendering.

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 15:47:

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 14:59:

True multi-bit alpha, smooth textures, twice the performance.

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

I made it up for this dummy. The G100 has better fill patterns in any case.

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 19:38:

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 15:47:

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 14:59:

True multi-bit alpha, smooth textures, twice the performance.

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

I made it up for this dummy. The G100 has better fill patterns in any case.

Not always, at least to my eyes.

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 20:03:

Not always, at least to my eyes.

+1

If this MGA-G100 videocard was of some use for testing the MSI 3D API and with decent DOS-compatibility I would "turn a blind eye" to all these 3D-rendering defects and the other unwanted picture artifacts, however much to my disappointment it turned out not to work for that either 🙁

I tested a G100 (borrowed from somebody stuck with one) in the early 2000s and I could not really find a good reason for its existence. It had the ugliest 3D of all its peers (at launch time) and it did not seem like it had anything special to offer on the 2D image quality front versus an ATI card of the era (I compared on a 17" Viewsonic PT771 aperture grill monitor).

It's a nice curiosity these days, nothing more, to me at least.

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 20:03:

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 19:38:

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 15:47:

What do you mean by true multi-bit alpha?

I made it up for this dummy. The G100 has better fill patterns in any case.

Not always, at least to my eyes.

Do you have a set of screenshots where the Mystique's patterns are objectively more accurate? Subjectively it's obviously a tossup, no point back and forthing on that.

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-27, 03:35:

Putas wrote on 2024-01-26, 20:03:

vvbee wrote on 2024-01-26, 19:38:

I made it up for this dummy. The G100 has better fill patterns in any case.

Not always, at least to my eyes.

Do you have a set of screenshots where the Mystique's patterns are objectively more accurate? Subjectively it's obviously a tossup, no point back and forthing on that.

Nope. Obviously, the G100 with its adjustability is ... the king of stipple alpha? But some patterns hit the eyes harder than a simple checkerboard, making accuracy rather irrelevant.

I'd think the brain can adapt to the stipple pattern. Once it reads it as proper alpha, the question is whether you want more or less detail in your blended effects.

Matrox G100 Productiva was aimed at low cost business computer segment due to advertising brochures that I seen and reviews reflects this horrible features and cut down stuff.

I was babying G400 Dual head AGP card back in the day for my work to help me calibrate, adjust and test Samsung monitors under repair using jig box on second port on a Dimension 8300 an P4 machine. Decent and fast in windows XP and excellent for PDF viewing of schematics for RCA and JVC TVs.

Cheers,

386SX wrote on 2024-01-26, 17:35:

How much was the price of the G100 in its time? Compared to the much more discussed G200 cards, this one always was quite uncommon in my country. The G200 instead had great marketing in newspapers. Like most other company I wonder if they had a difficult time to find the right balance and market position back then.

Re: Cannot believe I bought this "time capsule" PC, wondering what's inside !!

>>Diamond Viper V550 16MB $200 September 1998 https://www.anandtech.com/show/195/5
>>Creative Labs Graphics Blaster TNT 16MB $169 September 1998, $125 November 1998 https://www.anandtech.com/show/182/5
>>MATROX G100 8MB $99 April 1998
>>optional DVD Upgrade Module (Hardware MPEG2 decoder) for G100/G200 $79 April 1998
>>MATROX MILLENNIUM G200 8MB $230 August 1998 https://assets.hardwarezone.com/2009/reviews/ … /g200/g200.html
>>STB Velocity 128 4MB $129 June 1998
>>Creative Labs 3D Blaster VooDoo2 8MB $229 June 1998 and dropping fast after TNT release
>>Diamond Monster 3D II 8MB $249 June 1998 and dropping fast after TNT release

S3 Trio64V+/ Trio3D was around $35 at the time