Oh my. CGA seems to aim for world domination! 🗺️😰

I don't know what to make of their website at all ...

http://8086cpu.com/

Half constructed ?

But they do have spec sheets: http://8086cpu.com/lm6/79.html

So if they are essentially cloning the IBM CGA card to make an RGBI output in ISA form, it would be great for someone that has a CGA monitor with an old PC. Otherwise, I don't see why they don't just output VGA frequencies or pretty much anything else what people more likely have. They didn't even both with composite.

Somehow I'm thinking this is just an outfit that has some industrial customer with really old PCs who rather than buy used ISA cards for CGA or parallel/serial, they decided to source them locally made. I guess they only have CGA monitors??? um, nah... Can't see that happening.

As with many products coming out of China, there are a few sellers who have this for sale and use the same images and description.

Features: The CGA graphics card with ISA interface. This interface still plays an important role in the for Pentium for Celeron […]
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Features:
The CGA graphics card with ISA interface. This interface still plays an important role in the for Pentium for Celeron processor. Plug this graphics card into PC with an ISA interface, it will still work normally.

Specifications:
Interface: ISA (any computer with an ISA interface can be used, no driver is required)
Chip: MC6845 (is used)
Memory: 16KB
Output interface: RGBI 9-pin interface

Package include:
1* CGA graphics card

The Celeron part seems like a weird thing to mention. Does anyone know why that would have been included in the description? Is there something notable about Celerons and the ISA bus or CGA graphics?

the3dfxdude wrote on 2024-02-01, 00:55:

Otherwise, I don't see why they don't just output VGA frequencies or pretty much anything else what people more likely have. They didn't even both with composite.

Based on the labelling, we can safely say the circuit was *developed* for Book 8088, which is squarely aimed at retro gamers and tinkerers.

Quite likely these cards are also designed and manufactured by the same person/people that created Book8088, and flipped in bulk at the Shenzhen markets.

Compare the photo in the OP with this photo of the Book8088 internals.

For this application. VGA is not desirable, and composite would have increased the design and manufacture costs.

Turning that section of the Book8088 into an ISA card would have been super easy, and like I said, opens an avenue to move stock of the ICs.

douglar wrote on 2024-01-31, 21:28:

I don't know what to make of their website at all ... […]
Show full quote

I don't know what to make of their website at all ...

http://8086cpu.com/

Half constructed ?

But they do have spec sheets: http://8086cpu.com/lm6/79.html

Yeah their website is bizarre, a kind of liminal experience hahahaha

the3dfxdude wrote on 2024-02-01, 00:55:

So if they are essentially cloning the IBM CGA card to make an RGBI output in ISA form, it would be great for someone that has a CGA monitor with an old PC. Otherwise, I don't see why they don't just output VGA frequencies or pretty much anything else what people more likely have. They didn't even both with composite.

Somehow I'm thinking this is just an outfit that has some industrial customer with really old PCs who rather than buy used ISA cards for CGA or parallel/serial, they decided to source them locally made. I guess they only have CGA monitors??? um, nah... Can't see that happening.

I'm curious, too. I'd think that industry setups would use monochrome monitors.
Which in turn I'd assume wouldn't require RGBI, since these are colour signals.

Instead, that good old RCA output would make more sense here (or IBM CGA's internal header for an RF modulator).
Without the NTSC color-burst circuitry installed the signal would be very sharp.

I mean, many portable PCs of the 80s had a humble monochrome video monitor installed.
Osborne 1, Compaq Plus Portable, IBM portable PC Model 5155,

It was just an ordinary little AV monitor (green or amber) with an composite input (VBS).

I'd think that older industrial machines used similar generic video monitors, but in a metal chassis.
I mean that's what made CGA stand out - it used TV technology.
(Software-wise, it was notable for being supported by PC BIOS. The graphics routines knew CGA only.)

By contrast, Hercules and MDA had needed monitors that could handle 18 KHz and separate sync signals.

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-02-01, 03:38:

As with many products coming out of China, there are a few sellers who have this for sale and use the same images and description.

...and price. Even worse their usernames are username_a, username_b, username_c... I don't get it, it's very weird and repelling.

SquallStrife wrote on 2024-01-31, 03:48:

So these are appearing en-masse on eBay: […]
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So these are appearing en-masse on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=ISA+6845

s-l500.jpg

They seem to be using the same parts as the CGA part of Book8088, labelling and all, including real MC6845s.

I've ordered one just out of curiosity.

Only downside seems to be no composite output, but IIRC this can be done externally with the RGBI signals, particularly in RGB2HDMI type devices.

Anybody else seen these, or got one? Discourse around Book8088's compatibility seems pretty positive, and I'm assuming it should be close if not identical in that regard.

I can't open the link at work, would someone be kind enough to let know how much they are being sold for?

appiah4 wrote on 2024-02-01, 11:14:

I can't open the link at work, would someone be kind enough to let know how much they are being sold for?

Around 40 euros including shipping.

SquallStrife wrote on 2024-02-01, 05:21:

For this application. VGA is not desirable, and composite would have increased the design and manufacture costs.

Turning that section of the Book8088 into an ISA card would have been super easy, and like I said, opens an avenue to move stock of the ICs.

Hm. The Book8088 version seems not to depend on FPGAs also, judging by that photography.

What I wonder is how the TV or monitor landscape looks like in China.
I think they were using PAL standard and 50Hz, just like here in Europe. But did they also have SCART (Euro SCART or Japan SCART)?

If so, wouldn't it make sense to also sell a matching SCART cable (w/ a simple combiner circuit) ?

But then, wouldn't it make sense to also provide +5v power somehow?
Say, by providing a DC power connector (barrel connector)? Next to the DE-9 connector, I mean.
Because, that's how some soundcards did it in the 90s, to power PC loudspeaker boxes.

The voltage might be needed for both the sync combing transistor and for triggering the sense-pin of a SCART TV (so it will switch into RGB AV mode automatically).

The alternative would be to use at least one of the N/C pins of the CGA connector.
Maybe pin 7? It doesn't seem to be used on MDA monitors, either. So a short is less likely to happen.
! It's just an idea, so please everyone double check pinouts.

Edit: That's what I mean by SCART cable.
The use of pin 7 required a little hardware modification on the PC side (CGA card).

Re: XT/CGA laptop dissection

Re: XT/CGA laptop dissection

I think you're reading too much in to it 😁

They definitely aren't FPGA's, firstly that'd be way overkill for this job, and secondly you're certainly not getting a device with TWO FPGA's at this price point.

The two on this ISA card are the top two from the Book8088's mainboard (shown here)

They're CPLD's. Almost certainly Microchip ATF-1508AS, relatively old part, but still produced.

Indeed, it is likely these are the same people that built the Book 8088 trying to push more product onto the market since there seems to be a demand, and they decided to go this route. The only thing, bringing back a functionally more limited CGA in ISA form this way doesn't seem serve anyone really. You'd be better off buying one of the late clone CGA/Herc/Plantronics cards many of which are probably still floating around, and supports more options. And many people will likely need to buy an adapter to get any use as there are not likely spare TTL CGAs floating around for new people to build a machine this way.

Features:
The CGA graphics card with ISA interface. This interface still plays an important role in the for Pentium for Celeron processor. Plug this graphics card into PC with an ISA interface, it will still work normally.

PC means Pentium Celeron.... get it? 😒

If people are really wanting to design a card suited like in an XT that requires no bios extension and works out of the box for the typical user, just emulate CGA/Herc/Plantronics, and integrate a module for the output that converts it to VGA, or HDMI, or something else people actually use today. I guess if people really want composite, add a video feature connector, to let someone tap off that like the good old days.

konc wrote on 2024-02-01, 10:42:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-02-01, 03:38:

As with many products coming out of China, there are a few sellers who have this for sale and use the same images and description.

...and price. Even worse their usernames are username_a, username_b, username_c... I don't get it, it's very weird and repelling.

It's a common practice for some eBay sellers. It's all one seller but they operate multiple accounts. Not sure what it achieves - perhaps adds legitimacy to an item by giving it a range of "competing" listings.

I was looking for something last week and every seller who had it, only had 3 left in stock. What a coincidence!

It doesn't necessarily speak poorly of the product. Just sellers playing the game.

Pierre32 wrote on 2024-02-01, 21:19:

It's a common practice for some eBay sellers. It's all one seller but they operate multiple accounts. Not sure what it achieves […]
Show full quote

konc wrote on 2024-02-01, 10:42:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-02-01, 03:38:

As with many products coming out of China, there are a few sellers who have this for sale and use the same images and description.

...and price. Even worse their usernames are username_a, username_b, username_c... I don't get it, it's very weird and repelling.

It's a common practice for some eBay sellers. It's all one seller but they operate multiple accounts. Not sure what it achieves - perhaps adds legitimacy to an item by giving it a range of "competing" listings.

I was looking for something last week and every seller who had it, only had 3 left in stock. What a coincidence!

It doesn't necessarily speak poorly of the product. Just sellers playing the game.

I'd guess that it is a way of circumventing the reputation system, especially when they have a low number of reviews. If one account gets a bad reputation, they can still get sales from their other accounts. Another guess would be that drop shipping is going on. Maybe they are different people who source their items from the same warehouse?

the3dfxdude wrote on 2024-02-01, 19:18:

You'd be better off buying one of the late clone CGA/Herc/Plantronics cards many of which are probably still floating around, and supports more options.

The benefit of this device over contemporary clones is the 6845 compatibility, for stuff like Area 5150, or any other games/demos that (ab)use 6845 registers in crazy ways.

And you can attach a RGB2HDMI or similar to decode and display composite artifact colours, then you have a solution that's both compatible, and useful on modern displays.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2024-02-01, 19:18:

If people are really wanting to design a card suited like in an XT that requires no bios extension and works out of the box for the typical user, just emulate CGA/Herc/Plantronics, and integrate a module for the output that converts it to VGA, or HDMI, or something else people actually use today. I guess if people really want composite, add a video feature connector, to let someone tap off that like the good old days.

An ISA cart build on modern parts, with VGA/HDMI output, and 100% 6845 compatible, would be cool as hell.

That's not what this is, nor is it (I asume) what it aims to be.

DerBaum wrote on 2024-02-01, 11:40:

appiah4 wrote on 2024-02-01, 11:14:

I can't open the link at work, would someone be kind enough to let know how much they are being sold for?

Around 40 euros including shipping.

Thank you, much appreciated. That's beyond my budget for such novelty considering I don't even own a screen for such. I'd probably consider at half the price..

douglar wrote on 2024-01-31, 21:28:

I don't know what to make of their website at all ... […]
Show full quote

I don't know what to make of their website at all ...

http://8086cpu.com/

Half constructed ?

But they do have spec sheets: http://8086cpu.com/lm6/79.html

It seems they also sell... bearings?

keenmaster486 wrote on 2024-02-02, 06:49:

douglar wrote on 2024-01-31, 21:28:

I don't know what to make of their website at all ... […]
Show full quote

I don't know what to make of their website at all ...

http://8086cpu.com/

Half constructed ?

But they do have spec sheets: http://8086cpu.com/lm6/79.html

It seems they also sell... bearings?

You click 80186 Computer on the Products list and all you get as products are ball bearings.. 🤣

Pierre32 wrote on 2024-02-01, 21:19:

It's a common practice for some eBay sellers. It's all one seller but they operate multiple accounts. Not sure what it achieves […]
Show full quote

konc wrote on 2024-02-01, 10:42:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-02-01, 03:38:

As with many products coming out of China, there are a few sellers who have this for sale and use the same images and description.

...and price. Even worse their usernames are username_a, username_b, username_c... I don't get it, it's very weird and repelling.

It's a common practice for some eBay sellers. It's all one seller but they operate multiple accounts. Not sure what it achieves - perhaps adds legitimacy to an item by giving it a range of "competing" listings.

I was looking for something last week and every seller who had it, only had 3 left in stock. What a coincidence!

It doesn't necessarily speak poorly of the product. Just sellers playing the game.

My first thought was that the seller is trying to fix the price to a certain amount. Something along the lines of "if 10 users sell it for 50 then that's the correct price, there must something sketchy with that 1 user who sells it for 30, better buy from the others". But then the later post about the account reputation also makes sense.

I don't know it doesn't feel OK to see that someone is playing the game with you, be it about the price or reputation or anything else I can't think of. It raises some red flags.