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First post, by gaula92

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Hello there!

I just recently acquired a new eeebox computer (intel atom 1.6Hgz, 1GB ram, intel GMA950...) and I was wondering if someone has ever tried installing and running MS-DOS natively on new/actual computers like this.

I suppose modern graphics chipsets are somehow compatible with MS-DOS BIOS video mode standards, but...what about sound? Is there a software SB emulator or sound hardware wrapper of some kind? (for native msdos, vdmsound is out of the question here..)

Yes, yes...dosbox is for me, etc... but I am aware of dosbox: I am asking about native msdos here. Any info, guys? I know how to install it, but I want to know about your EXPERIENCES with this idea. Thanks!

Reply 1 of 14, by DosFreak

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No, because DOSBox is the solution.

Driver issues. (Mouse(USB Assuming good BIOS support you should be gppd)/Sound/Keyboard(USB-Assuming good BIOS support you should be good)/network.)
Shitty video card and support (Yes, even Intel video cards for basic things such as VESA suck and good luck with them fixing an issue with DOS games).
HLT issues (It's doubtful HLT software would work well with atom).
Speed issues with games. (Doubtful the BIOS is that configurable, and speed programs are never very reliable).
You'll also need a floppy drive and your only option is USB so you'd need the BIOS to be able to read from a floppy.....or you can restore an Acronis image with MS-DOS already on there.

So even if you can "fix" or find ways around all of the issues above your still better off with DOSBox on that machine.

If you really despise DOSBox so much I suppose you could install XP and use NTVDM for your DOS games or be like all of the other DOSBox haters and install MS VPC and install MS-DOS in there. Both of these options are considerably worse than DOSBox but hey! You'll have some form of DOS to play around with and alot of complications to go with them!

Last edited by DosFreak on 2009-01-07, 20:16. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 3 of 14, by gaula92

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well, didn't dosbox support some kind of native execution mode on x86 machines? something that would GREATLY improve perfrmance on x86 machines... I remember to have read it somewhere time ago, while using my ppc mac and feeling unhappy for being unable to test it...but... I know I read something about it! do you know what am I talking about?

It was a new feature of some kind, but I've been looking at the changelogs with no luck at the moment...

Reply 4 of 14, by FeedingDragon

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Actually, as long as the game(s) in question aren't messed up by faster computers, I've had quite a bit of luck with the following conditions.

I've never been able to get any PCI sound card to work well in DOS. Forget using a Creative Labs PCI card completely. DOS support from Creative after ISA is a major joke. I've tried a couple of others (don't remember the exact cards,) and had similar problems. They either eat up too much conventional ram, or they just don't work right. One driver even caused my computer to hard-lock when I used a <shift>+letter command (typing a capital letter, using the <shift> key to walk fast or slow, etc...) So, you would really need an ISA slot or 2 and put an older sound card in.

As for graphics, most PCI cards can handle any DOS based graphics demand without any problem. What you have to be aware of are any games that are hardware 3D capable. For these, you just have to have the correct card for whatever option(s) those games offer. Usually an 8 or 12 meg 3d card is enough for most DOS based games.

Finally, the mouse. If you have a motherboard with an ISA slot, then most likely you will have a PS/2 port for the mouse (and usually KB as well.) A USB-PS/2 adaptor is usually fairly easy to come across for the mouse. Don't know if they work for USB keyboards, never had one of those. If push comes to shove, go find an old COM port mouse (they are still out there,) and use a free downloadable mouse driver (like cute mouse.) Also, the DOS 6.22 extras disk has a mouse driver that works with either a COM or PS/2 mouse, but it is a memory hog.

The last issue would be the joystick. I know of no DOS drivers for USB joysticks. But, with an old ISA sound card, you have a game port you can use. Now, here is the real problem. The older sound card game ports had problems with faster machines. To fix this (prior to USB joysticks,) I had to buy a game port dedicated card with a speed control box. This would allow me to adjust the timing on the game ports (there were 2 on the card I used to have,) so that your game port joystick wouldn't have problems on the faster machine. I haven't looked into the availability of these recently, so you may have to look somewhere like eBay for that (if you end up needing it, not all sound cards had a problem.)

Adjusting for all the above, I've managed to get pure DOS working just great for DOS games on up to a P3 system. Haven't tried it with a P4 or later, though. Mainly because I haven't found a P4+ that also had one or more ISA ports. Well, actually, I did find one, but I wasn't really willing to pay $500 for it.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 5 of 14, by StickByDos

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I played around with real dos on an ASUS K8NE-Deluxe, years ago

It worked but when I try to load Creative SB driver or PCI NIC driver, it hung

After some research, I discovered it need to disable APIC in BIOS setting (set IRQ mode to PIC) to make it work correctly

Type win to loose the power of your computer !

Reply 7 of 14, by Dominus

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I seem to remember years ago when I first got a sb-live it worked ok in dos, not that i used it much in dos

It works ok, but not great. First you need EMS for the drivers to work at all (and that makes the soundcard right away incompatible with games like Ultima 7) and then the driver eats too much memory. And last but not least, supposedly the sound is not as good compared to the ISA SB cards...

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 8 of 14, by FeedingDragon

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Dominus wrote:

I seem to remember years ago when I first got a sb-live it worked ok in dos, not that i used it much in dos

It works ok, but not great. First you need EMS for the drivers to work at all (and that makes the soundcard right away incompatible with games like Ultima 7) and then the driver eats too much memory. And last but not least, supposedly the sound is not as good compared to the ISA SB cards...

The DOS drivers for all PCI creative labs cards are all like that (they are all the same exact driver.) They are also incompatable with both Ultima Underworld games as well. Oh, they seem to work until you try to jump (use the <shift> key,) then the game crashes.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 9 of 14, by butterfly

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DOS USB and VIA-audio drivers

I never tested this but if you can get it to work you can perhaps attach a cheap USB soundcard to your computer but I guess your intent is to have DOS working with the hardware you already have.

Reply 10 of 14, by Blackbird

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If you have a new computer it will accept Windows-XP, which you probably own already.

I'm not much of a player, but I use a very old Dos-based database which was included in the package made by Smart software.

I would think that such programs can run perfectly in the XP Dos-window, most Dos games should be running as well. You would benefit the advantage of using NTFS for all files used.

(For the moment I'm testing the use of Dosbox in Unix (Ubuntu) envrironment)

Reply 11 of 14, by l1qu1d

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I read on the Intel site that it would be impossible to install DOS on an 865+ chipset.. was i mislead (suprising a big company would mislead.. 🤣)??? Yet i would agree with Blackbird, compatibility mode in XP (or XP DOS-window) and most if not all 1990+ DOS games should work. Or else VMware Workstation is the closest you will get with a PC like yours! Which is pretty cool, i don't think that there is a difference installing DOS to a Virtual workstation rather than a real DOS install. I use it all the time..

On a side note, there ARE NTFS drivers for pure DOS. Google it..

Reply 12 of 14, by AvalonH

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You don't need to install Dos, I just boot from a USB boot flash stick. Games run fine and this is on a 3ghz penryn quad core with 4GB ram.
Dos even detects the full 4GB of ram. (Himem.sys from dos7.1((win98se)).
For sound I use the SBLIVE with the fix from mpxplay so I don't need emm386 and can use umbpci.
http://www.geocities.com/mpxplay/
With new computers with GB of RAM and ntfs disks, just create a 2GB ramdisk in dos with xmsdsk, copy all the games from the flash drive to this and run the games from there. The Ram disk acts as a c hard drive. I have yet to come across one game that has not worked. (Note I only do this for all the games that are currently too slow in dosbox like GrandPrix 2).

Reply 14 of 14, by gerwin

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AvalonH wrote:

For sound I use the SBLIVE with the fix from mpxplay so I don't need emm386 and can use umbpci.

I just looked, but cannot find any reference to this 'fix' in the mpxplay package. Could you give some more info please?
AFAIK SB-PCI/SB-Live sbinit/sbeinit requires emm386 loaded and a mainboard that supports DDMA.