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Is it worth it to build a 486 66 or 133 machine using VLB vs SOcket 7 with level 1 and 2 disabled?

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Reply 40 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-03-20, 03:14:

That's probably sufficient. I have three systems to span everything from 1985 to 2000. A 386SX 16 covers the early 80s (increasing the wait state from 0 to 1 cripples the machine significantly, sufficient for XT stuff then), a DX4/100 (was originally a DX2/66, can still be one on a whim) for stuff from about 1992-1996, and a Pentium 233 MMX with Voodoo II for 1996 to 2000, maybe 2001 if you stretch that machine. 15k SCSI HDD and 192 Mb RAM helps.

I do have faster machines right now, but I don't keep them for long. I also have an NEC V30, similarly it is before my time. I'm tuning it up as a curiosity and YouTube content, then it's off to make room for something else. Probably a 4G63/4 stroker kit for my 35 year old Hyundai 😉

I found this at the good will believe it or not , practically for free. Would like to know if this is better than a circus logic PCI version with 2MB? Phill's computer lab recommended Cirrus logic for a 486.

Thanks

CLVGA542XVL/H CIRRUS LOGIC CIRRUS VLB VESA LOCAL BUS VIDEO CARD LOGIC CL-GD5429-

Reply 41 of 78, by xcomcmdr

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Unrealcpu wrote:

Not with my soldering skills , you have fun the next 20 years with dos box with your inaccurate sound output

NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago.

You'd know that if you had any idea what you are talking about.

Also, DOSBox will survive eons in the form of source code.
Your hardware won't.

Reply 42 of 78, by Joseph_Joestar

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:44:

Not with my soldering skills

Are those Nichicon capacitors in your pics? They look great.

I've been meaning to try replacing the caps in some of my sound cards but I'm not quite confident in my own soldering skills (yet). Any good tutorial videos or other learning materials that you can recommend?

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 VirgeDX / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 43 of 78, by chinny22

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:46:

Would like to know if this is better than a circus logic PCI version with 2MB? Phill's computer lab recommended Cirrus logic for a 486.

Thanks

CLVGA542XVL/H CIRRUS LOGIC CIRRUS VLB VESA LOCAL BUS VIDEO CARD LOGIC CL-GD5429-

Your not going to notice much difference comparing like for like.

The GD5429 for example isa fast ISA card, mid range in VLB from and slow by PCI standards
Memory type would also be a consideration and could cause a bit of crossover in the benchmarks.

If you want a VLB system GD5429 is a good choice if you want to avoid the premium Tseng ET4000 or S3 cards attract.
If you have PCI then you can pick something up like a S3 Virge or similar for next to nothing and still be faster then any VLB card.

I have both a 5x86 83 with S3 virge PCI and POD 83 with CL 5428 VLB. Benchmarks the PCI rig wins but actual gameplay any game that struggles on one struggles on the other.

Reply 44 of 78, by SodaSuccubus

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:44:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:25:

Dosbox will replace your failing hardware. It is inevitable.

Not with my soldering skills , you have fun the next 20 years with dos box with your inaccurate sound output

Not to throw this thread offtopic:

Yeah I'd argue 90% of casual people now and in the future who just wanna play a DOS game without the effort of real hardware, won't care. Some might not even be able to hear the difference. I used dosbox for the longest time before I could use real hardware and it sounded fine 😜

We aren't all FM audiophiles.

That being said though. I do wonder how "infinitely" repairable some of this hardware is. Iv heard people use the same language with easily fixable consoles like the NES.

Reply 45 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 07:25:
NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote:

Not with my soldering skills , you have fun the next 20 years with dos box with your inaccurate sound output

NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago.

You'd know that if you had any idea what you are talking about.

Also, DOSBox will survive eons in the form of source code.
Your hardware won't.

Just shut up already , even 486 FPGA core sucks compared to a real DOS computer. MT-32 Emulation does not even come close to the real deal nor does a real SC-55 made 30 years ago.

Stop living in a fantasy world ,

Reply 46 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-03-24, 08:06:
Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:44:

Not with my soldering skills

Are those Nichicon capacitors in your pics? They look great.

I've been meaning to try replacing the caps in some of my sound cards but I'm not quite confident in my own soldering skills (yet). Any good tutorial videos or other learning materials that you can recommend?

It may take hours and hours of practice and knowing how to time the desoldering pump , working with the soldering iron to remove caps etc. You will need a good ultrasonic cleaner and electronic cleaner since ALOT of flux will be needed. I have a dedicated shop area just to solder and make PCBs etc. I make alot of different MISTER FPGA boards as well.

I removed the TEA2025B which is responsible for stereo output. This may have been the cause of my CT1740 FW 4.05 only outputting MONO. The card sounds unbelievable , as the original caps and I am sure when it came out of the factory is very muffled and not as detailed now as my Nichion gold audio recap, the boost in bass and treble is amazing as well. I just have a set of Logitech Z626 speakers with sub.

I plan on putting Nichion gold on everything Soundblaster pro , AWE 64 Gold and I will be doing 3 more CT1740 FW 4.05 Nichion Gold recaps and putting 1 or 2 on ebay.

It also sounds amazing with my MT-32 /SC-55 , emulation did not even compare before the recap and now is even better. I am comparing this to Mister FPGA 486 core Sound blaster /MT32 PI emulation along with DOSBOX.

With the price of the caps and labor this will easily mark up the price of a CT1740 by $150-200.00 as I have seen a CT1350 recapped with I believe looked like gold Nichion audio caps for $250.00

It takes me about 1 hour to decap, another 45 min to desolder all the holes where new caps would go and there is ALOT. Another 1-2 hours to ensure caps are placed accordingly and there is again ALOT of different Uf Cap values.
Cleaning usually takes me 8 min with my Ultrasonic cleaner since I use expensive cleaners detergents 25.00 a quart.

Also removing the 2025B is a PIA this alone may take 30min since pads can be damaged, and is suggested you use a multimeter for continuity after the removal

This was my first recap for a sound card that has a ton of caps and will probably be alittle faster this time for me.

Reply 47 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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chinny22 wrote on 2021-03-24, 10:30:
Your not going to notice much difference comparing like for like. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:46:

Would like to know if this is better than a circus logic PCI version with 2MB? Phill's computer lab recommended Cirrus logic for a 486.

Thanks

CLVGA542XVL/H CIRRUS LOGIC CIRRUS VLB VESA LOCAL BUS VIDEO CARD LOGIC CL-GD5429-

Your not going to notice much difference comparing like for like.

The GD5429 for example isa fast ISA card, mid range in VLB from and slow by PCI standards
Memory type would also be a consideration and could cause a bit of crossover in the benchmarks.

If you want a VLB system GD5429 is a good choice if you want to avoid the premium Tseng ET4000 or S3 cards attract.
If you have PCI then you can pick something up like a S3 Virge or similar for next to nothing and still be faster then any VLB card.

I have both a 5x86 83 with S3 virge PCI and POD 83 with CL 5428 VLB. Benchmarks the PCI rig wins but actual gameplay any game that struggles on one struggles on the other.

Thanks I heard the S3 cards needs a driver to basically run the same speed as a PCI Tseng . I think I will just stick with what I have. I am probably over thinking this as I have several socket 7 /K6II+ K63+Pentium mmx 166-233mhz builds where I could just disable the caches and call this system a 386, 486 etc.
Just trying to learn where I should be putting money for my collection. This is becoming more of a hobby collecting for me now.

Reply 48 of 78, by xcomcmdr

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 16:08:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 07:25:
NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago. […]
Show full quote
Unrealcpu wrote:

Not with my soldering skills , you have fun the next 20 years with dos box with your inaccurate sound output

NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago.

You'd know that if you had any idea what you are talking about.

Also, DOSBox will survive eons in the form of source code.
Your hardware won't.

Just shut up already , even 486 FPGA core sucks compared to a real DOS computer. MT-32 Emulation does not even come close to the real deal nor does a real SC-55 made 30 years ago.

Stop living in a fantasy world ,

No I won't. You attack dosbox, myself, and other people without reason. You are since the very beginning of this thread very agressive. And that's what really suck.
So, I retort. Every time you'll say something not justified I'll answer. Deal with it.

Or else start behaving like an adult and not a dipshit.

Reply 49 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 18:06:
No I won't. You attack dosbox, myself, and other people without reason. You are since the very beginning of this thread very agr […]
Show full quote
Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 16:08:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 07:25:
NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago. […]
Show full quote

NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago.

You'd know that if you had any idea what you are talking about.

Also, DOSBox will survive eons in the form of source code.
Your hardware won't.

Just shut up already , even 486 FPGA core sucks compared to a real DOS computer. MT-32 Emulation does not even come close to the real deal nor does a real SC-55 made 30 years ago.

Stop living in a fantasy world ,

No I won't. You attack dosbox, myself, and other people without reason. You are since the very beginning of this thread very agressive. And that's what really suck.
So, I retort. Every time you'll say something not justified I'll answer. Deal with it.

Or else start behaving like an adult and not a dipshit.

Ez fix . Blocked/Muted

I do not have time for useless comments and to have iddiots control or think how I should be playing original DOS games 🤣.
Guy is a joke

Reply 51 of 78, by willow

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 18:06:
No I won't. You attack dosbox, myself, and other people without reason. You are since the very beginning of this thread very agr […]
Show full quote
Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 16:08:
xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-03-24, 07:25:
NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago. […]
Show full quote

NukedOPL fixed that a long time ago.

You'd know that if you had any idea what you are talking about.

Also, DOSBox will survive eons in the form of source code.
Your hardware won't.

Just shut up already , even 486 FPGA core sucks compared to a real DOS computer. MT-32 Emulation does not even come close to the real deal nor does a real SC-55 made 30 years ago.

Stop living in a fantasy world ,

No I won't. You attack dosbox, myself, and other people without reason. You are since the very beginning of this thread very agressive. And that's what really suck.
So, I retort. Every time you'll say something not justified I'll answer. Deal with it.

Or else start behaving like an adult and not a dipshit.

I use only dosbox and I don't have old hardware but I think that it's you that is very aggressive since the start of the thread.

Reply 53 of 78, by Jed118

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:46:
I found this at the good will believe it or not , practically for free. Would like to know if this is better than a circus lo […]
Show full quote
Jed118 wrote on 2021-03-20, 03:14:

That's probably sufficient. I have three systems to span everything from 1985 to 2000. A 386SX 16 covers the early 80s (increasing the wait state from 0 to 1 cripples the machine significantly, sufficient for XT stuff then), a DX4/100 (was originally a DX2/66, can still be one on a whim) for stuff from about 1992-1996, and a Pentium 233 MMX with Voodoo II for 1996 to 2000, maybe 2001 if you stretch that machine. 15k SCSI HDD and 192 Mb RAM helps.

I do have faster machines right now, but I don't keep them for long. I also have an NEC V30, similarly it is before my time. I'm tuning it up as a curiosity and YouTube content, then it's off to make room for something else. Probably a 4G63/4 stroker kit for my 35 year old Hyundai 😉

I found this at the good will believe it or not , practically for free. Would like to know if this is better than a circus logic PCI version with 2MB? Phill's computer lab recommended Cirrus logic for a 486.

Thanks

CLVGA542XVL/H CIRRUS LOGIC CIRRUS VLB VESA LOCAL BUS VIDEO CARD LOGIC CL-GD5429-

CIrrus Logic - I've not heard good things. However, I have a Blue Lighting AND a Siemens with integrated ones. I'm also picking up a Tseng VLB and just got a Mach32, so I'll be doing a benchmark between them. Soon. Ish.

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 54 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-03-25, 01:33:
Unrealcpu wrote on 2021-03-24, 06:46:
I found this at the good will believe it or not , practically for free. Would like to know if this is better than a circus lo […]
Show full quote
Jed118 wrote on 2021-03-20, 03:14:

That's probably sufficient. I have three systems to span everything from 1985 to 2000. A 386SX 16 covers the early 80s (increasing the wait state from 0 to 1 cripples the machine significantly, sufficient for XT stuff then), a DX4/100 (was originally a DX2/66, can still be one on a whim) for stuff from about 1992-1996, and a Pentium 233 MMX with Voodoo II for 1996 to 2000, maybe 2001 if you stretch that machine. 15k SCSI HDD and 192 Mb RAM helps.

I do have faster machines right now, but I don't keep them for long. I also have an NEC V30, similarly it is before my time. I'm tuning it up as a curiosity and YouTube content, then it's off to make room for something else. Probably a 4G63/4 stroker kit for my 35 year old Hyundai 😉

I found this at the good will believe it or not , practically for free. Would like to know if this is better than a circus logic PCI version with 2MB? Phill's computer lab recommended Cirrus logic for a 486.

Thanks

CLVGA542XVL/H CIRRUS LOGIC CIRRUS VLB VESA LOCAL BUS VIDEO CARD LOGIC CL-GD5429-

CIrrus Logic - I've not heard good things. However, I have a Blue Lighting AND a Siemens with integrated ones. I'm also picking up a Tseng VLB and just got a Mach32, so I'll be doing a benchmark between them. Soon. Ish.

Nice thanks for the input. I have a new found addiction to collecting old hardware 🤣

Reply 56 of 78, by Unrealcpu

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-03-25, 02:29:

Yeah I'm dealing with EISA stuff now (SCSI at that) - the addiction consumes your time. Good luck 😉

Does not help my addiction either going to a good will the other day and finding , in the box PIII 800mhz slot 1 processor for 3.50 USD!

Reply 59 of 78, by Jed118

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^^^ Yeah I'm gonna go out and say that we probably all know that. Why you're continuing to flame the noob is puzzling, and reminds me of stuff I did on Hyundai Performance boards decades ago 😉 I got the girl though, for a while. This seems somewhat unnecessary but lightly entertaining and two sided, and mostly without a point. I don't use DOSBox because I have tons of real hardware. Some people don't have that skill or are casual gamers - DOSBox is fine for that. Neither of you are right OR wrong, it depends on the context. I think it doesn't really matter how you play the retro games, its that they're being played at all - My 2 year old plays Stunts ("plays" - on my lap, pointing and counting things) on REAL HARDWAER Y0! but TBH if I sat him in front of a Ryzen 5 with DOSBox and did the same thing, he wouldn't know the difference as the entertainment value is the same. For future generations, certainly if there is interest, it will be done through emulators, but for now, there shouldn't be a divide between the two camps - some people can't afford retro hardware (then again my listings and sales say otherwise), and some have the know-how, resourcefulness and luck to maintain and find spares. In the end, we all want to enjoy the same thing.

You guys are starting to sound like fuel injection vs. carburettor when the future is electric 😜

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!