I guess there are ATX motherboards with highly compatible built in video cards, but you probably need a separate sound card for dos fm sound. Some PCI sound cards can work in dos even without sb link. Maybe you can get some kind of riser board and make it smallish.

The cheapest option is probably to buy a laptop maybe from 1998ish. You can even rebuild a broken one and fit it into an LCD screen I guess.

For graphics chips I think you generally should go S3 or Nvidia.

Joakim wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:08:

ATX

ATX is too bulky for me at this point. I'm after something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1E2vjpcRo

Sadly it's not easy to find such a compact solution. The best options I have found is building something similar by myself or getting these nettop or whatever they are called proprietary PCs.

t_r wrote on 2022-07-20, 17:50:

As for authentic DOS experience I'd like MT-32 emulation or equivalent, I have not yet decided how to implement it, do PCI soundcards generally have this feature in DOS?

Just my 2 cents: if you're talking about MT-32 emulation by soundcards (as opposed to, say, running Munt, i.e., software MT-32 emulation), then yeah, there are a few soundcards that emulate MT-32 — for instance, Ensoniq AudioPCI. But you have to keep in mind that those cards only remap existing MIDI samples that don't sound like MT-32. Also, they don't support intelligent-mode MPU (games, that load their own samples into MT-32). There are a lot of games that do that. So Monkey Island 1 will work, but will sound different. MI2 won't.

jheronimus wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:30:

if you're talking about MT-32 emulation by soundcards (as opposed to, say, running Munt, i.e., software MT-32 emulation),

Honestly I have not yet decided whether I should add something like Raspberry Pi based emulation, or if something provided by the soundcard itself would be adequate. If Munt runs on DOS it could be a solution as well. Anyway thanks for your 2 cents, I need every kind of advice now as this will be my first DOS PC on modern(ish) hardware.

t_r wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:34:

jheronimus wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:30:

if you're talking about MT-32 emulation by soundcards (as opposed to, say, running Munt, i.e., software MT-32 emulation),

Honestly I have not yet decided whether I should add something like Raspberry Pi based emulation, or if something provided by the soundcard itself would be adequate. If Munt runs on DOS it could be a solution as well. Anyway thanks for your 2 cents, I need every kind of advice now as this will be my first DOS PC on modern(ish) hardware.

Maybe emulate it on a Pi4B or an old Dell Optiplex/HP Prodesk/etc. running Lakka or RetroArch? On ebay search for "USFF"

https://youtu.be/LRy8brZ7DVc

https://youtu.be/gKAO13LBnkc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195101210235

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195101473896

Phil did a piece on a Wyse thin client (be wary, a lot of Wyse hardware dumping at the moment seems not to be x86) then there was also a project to get DOS running on the MCU in a KVM box, but I guess sound wouldn't have been included.

The actually useable version of dosbox to try for free on a tablet, android TV box or phone from google play is iDosBox

if you're looking for vintage small OEM desktops, there's Compaq P3 SFFs from early 1999 that have an onboard Rage Pro and ESS (good enough for most DOS games). Unfortunately they're too constrained to drop a 3dfx V1/V2 in.

There's P3 deskpros that aren't all that large in physical dimensions but weigh a ton still, that you can probably get V3 and soundcard into.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-07-21, 01:19:

Phil did a piece on a Wyse thin client (be wary, a lot of Wyse hardware dumping at the moment seems not to be x86) then there was also a project to get DOS running on the MCU in a KVM box, but I guess sound wouldn't have been included.

The actually useable version of dosbox to try for free on a tablet, android TV box or phone from google play is iDosBox

See https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hware/hardware.shtml for other thin clients.

I'd avoid Wyse. I have 3x Wyse S10, 4x Wyse Vx0, and 4x HP T5745 with the expander module.

The S10 beautifully small, will run DOS nicely at a good clip (like a fast PII), VGA is more compatible with DOOM & Quake but audio is not and needs to be addressed, as does booting and installing DOS since it only likes to boot from DOS HDD images, no ISO burned to USB, or FDD burned to USB booting.

My Vx0 are broken and don't seem to like the RAM and will enter a boot-beep loop if I try to change a BIOS setting. Wiping the BIOS CMOS is the only to get it temporarily rebooting.

The HP T5745 are super fast (like fast P4), have dual threaded Atoms, do a ton of RAM (8GB!...for DOS that is a lot), BIOS will mount any FAT16 or FAT32 formatted drive as a semi compatible HDD on any of the 8x USB2.0 ports or the internal SATA port, have super fast but somewhat DOS incompatible VGA chips, and a DOS incompatible sound chip that necessitates the expander module. The most PC-like BIOS of the bunch.

There are AMD K6 based thin clients with expansion card options, though they are very rare. If you get one and add something like an ESS Solo-1, that's probably the smallest you can get without sacrificing too much compatibility.

https://www.dosforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=11406

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-07-21, 01:19:

The actually useable version of dosbox to try for free on a tablet, android TV box or phone from google play is iDosBox

+1

DOSBox Turbo (Free) workes for me on an Android TV (the least "SD card" mounting issues).
On my tablet, IDOSBox works fine, too.

That's really funny, if I (we) think about it. What essentially is part of a modern day monitor, can run our vintage all of its own.

No need to attach something like a 286/386 PC, unless we special hardware is needed.

An old DVD/Blu Ray player thus becomes a fully usable Android "PC" we can run specialized software on.
Like a satellite tracker, an SDR receiver application, an AF function generator etc.

Feels a like working with tech of a post-apocalyptic world, IMHO.:
Image people wandering through the ruins of cities, looking for old consumer's electronics (appliances) which they repurpose as computers.
And the irony is, that actually works. It's possible to run an 3,5" USB floppy drive/optical drive on a SmartTV. So someone can retrieve JPEGs stored on diskette taken with a Sony Mavica camera, originally .

Watch out! The emulation people wants to eat your brain!

(Why arent there more spears being used in zombie movies?)

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-07-21, 05:45:

https://www.dosforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=11406

Looks really nice. Today I have been doing research on thin clients, but most don't have DOS compatible sound cards, and if they have PCI expansion slot I have been told only ISA cards are fully supported on DOS, although I am not sure if this is completelly true.

Joakim wrote on 2022-07-21, 16:46:

Watch out! The emulation people wants to eat your brain!

I won't give in, I already have a powerful desktop PC which can run DosBox fine, but I want the real thing (if one can call DOS on modern hardware that). Besides if I wanted emulation I'd go for MiSTer with ao486 core.

Truely native (fully hard-wired) hardware rarely exists anymore, I suppose. Emulation/programmable logic is everywhere. Even at the ISA level. 😁
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Microcode

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/808 … assembly.77933/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta_Crusoe

Jo22 wrote on 2022-07-21, 19:43:

Truely native (fully hard-wired) hardware rarely exists anymore, I suppose.

And if you interpret some laws of physics in a certain way, even the reality itself seems to be running on some sort of "virtual machine"...

Forgot to comment previously but a nice photo of Gateway btw, that game is great!

Yeah, you shoulda seen the frantic GPU upgrades the masters of the universe had to do to be ready for James Webb Space Telescope turning on.

Give the T5710 a look, they can be bought cheap. Got ATI Radeon 7000 graphics and with an unofficial utility you can get soundblaster support under DOS.

On top of that you can add some soundcards using PCI if you need one.

Many years ago I bought one of those tiny PC systems that @t_r posted a YT video of, with the purpose of having a very portable DOS gaming box when I travelled.
Everything was great apart from the sound card support. As I recall it had a rather obscure audio chip, like a CMedia one, that was Sound Blaster/SB Pro/SB16 compatible in Windows, but absolutely not in DOS due to it running on the embedded PCI bus.

jheronimus wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:30:

Also, they don't support intelligent-mode MPU (games, that load their own samples into MT-32). There are a lot of games that do that.

My understanding of intelligent mode MPU is that it has nothing to do with whether games load custom samples into the MT-32. It's more to do with how the handshaking occurs with the external MIDI device, and whether the game waits for an 'ACK' (acknowledge) response from the device before it recognises whether it's an MT-32 or not. I'm sure a number of games that work perfectly in UART mode load their own custom samples but I'm happy to be corrected.