VOGONS

Common searches


First post, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Are there any games that can run only on GDI32, instead of using DDraw, D2D, D3D, OGL, Vk? Yoda Stories doesn't use any of these, so I wonder if GDI32 can output graphics for games too. If it's true, are there any such games?

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 1 of 18, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

There's quite a few. Forestia (1998) comes to mind. It runs in fullscreen.

I encountered quite a lot of those, but I'll have to dig up my archives to list them all.

Last edited by xcomcmdr on 2020-12-03, 10:02. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 18, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

MissionForce : Cyberstorm runs in a window and uses GDI.
It even runs inside Windows 3.11 with Win32s, but without sound (as this relies on DirectSound) and it is unsupported.

Edit: There is of course WinDoom but it uses WinG, not even GDI according to the wiki.

Edit 2 : This game uses Windows Forms, which means Win32 with GDI+ :
https://www.reddit.com/r/csharp/comments/c2ap … _form_in_about/

Reply 3 of 18, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-03, 09:59:
MissionForce : Cyberstorm runs in a window and uses GDI. It even runs inside Windows 3.11 with Win32s, but without sound (as thi […]
Show full quote

MissionForce : Cyberstorm runs in a window and uses GDI.
It even runs inside Windows 3.11 with Win32s, but without sound (as this relies on DirectSound) and it is unsupported.

Edit: There is of course WinDoom but it uses WinG, not even GDI according to the wiki.

Edit 2 : This game uses Windows Forms, which means Win32 with GDI+ :
https://www.reddit.com/r/csharp/comments/c2ap … _form_in_about/

Are Windows Forms and GDI+ two different things or GDI+ is integrated into WinForms? Because one runs on .net framework and the latter doesn't need it for its own.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 4 of 18, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Windows Forms is just a wrapper around the "flat" API of Win32 and GDI/GDI+, for the .NET Framework/.NET Core and it's object-oriented languages (C#, VB .NET, ...)
You can call GDI/GDI+ through the WinForms wrapper API, or use Platform Invoke (= you call the flat API directly)
At the same time, you can host anything inside a Win32 Window, so the same is true for WinForms.

Reply 5 of 18, by Jorpho

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-03, 07:33:

Are there any games that can run only on GDI32, instead of using DDraw, D2D, D3D, OGL, Vk?

So, pre-DirectX games that don't use WinG?

How about Pitfall?

Reply 7 of 18, by Myloch

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

There are a lot of early windows95 japanese games relying on gdi in my collection.

"Gamer & collector for passion, I firmly believe in the preservation and the diffusion of old/rare software, against all personal egoisms"

Reply 8 of 18, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Myloch wrote on 2020-12-04, 22:40:

There are a lot of early windows95 japanese games relying on gdi in my collection.

Good to know. I have seen older more commercial Japanese games using a similar but advanced framework, like all games did use gdi for a windowed process than turnes to Directx

xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-03, 21:10:

Windows Forms is just a wrapper around the "flat" API of Win32 and GDI/GDI+, for the .NET Framework/.NET Core and it's object-oriented languages (C#, VB .NET, ...)
You can call GDI/GDI+ through the WinForms wrapper API, or use Platform Invoke (= you call the flat API directly)
At the same time, you can host anything inside a Win32 Window, so the same is true for WinForms.

How about Flash games? Do they run on GDI or is there any other Flash API that does It?

Jorpho wrote on 2020-12-03, 21:39:
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-03, 07:33:

Are there any games that can run only on GDI32, instead of using DDraw, D2D, D3D, OGL, Vk?

So, pre-DirectX games that don't use WinG?

How about Pitfall?

A Google search for this brought me a 1982 game, and another game by the same but longer name was from 2004. Couldnt get any other info but thanks.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 9 of 18, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Many games from the indie/freeware scene used to use plain GDI. As did games from Japan.

Cave Story, Undertale, etc.

Personally, most games I played were either using GDI or DirectDraw.

Out-of-Order, The BreakDown, Sonic CD (PC), HoldOver, etc.

Re: Could anyone recommend some pc games for girls?

Many games made with RPG Maker or MultimediaFusion/Click&Create/Klik&Play use GDI/GDI32 or WinDIB..

Edit: You find many classics on Caiman.us.
That site is now a memorial site, but the database itself is still functional.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 10 of 18, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Jo22 wrote on 2020-12-05, 11:22:
Many games from the indie/freeware scene used to use plain GDI. As did games from Japan. […]
Show full quote

Many games from the indie/freeware scene used to use plain GDI. As did games from Japan.

Cave Story, Undertale, etc.

Personally, most games I played were either using GDI or DirectDraw.

Out-of-Order, The BreakDown, Sonic CD (PC), HoldOver, etc.

Re: Could anyone recommend some pc games for girls?

Many games made with RPG Maker or MultimediaFusion/Click&Create/Klik&Play use GDI/GDI32 or WinDIB..

Edit: You find many classics on Caiman.us.
That site is now a memorial site, but the database itself is still functional.

Games like Jack Jazzrabit 2, used DirectDraw and D3D in fullscreen HW mode, but when switched to Windowed SW mode, it didn't use DDraw or D3D. The way I verified is I deleted Ddraw.dll and D3Dim.dll from SysWOW64 directory and the game could no longer change to HW mode.

Is the SW Windowed mode using GDI or are there more options available in this situation?

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 11 of 18, by Jorpho

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-05, 10:55:

How about Pitfall?

A Google search for this brought me a 1982 game, and another game by the same but longer name was from 2004. Couldnt get any other info but thanks.

Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, to be precise. "[T]he first commercial release for the then-recently debuted Windows 95 operating system".

Jo22 wrote on 2020-12-05, 11:22:

Out-of-Order, The BreakDown, Sonic CD (PC), HoldOver, etc.

Famously, Sonic CD was released in two versions, the latter of which used DirectX. The first one used something by Intel called "Dino"; I have no idea how that relates to GDI.

Reply 12 of 18, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

A few games use WinDirect, which totally replaces GDI for them, and it's intended for Windows 3.11 and Windows 9X (thanks Win32S). For example, the PC port of Garfield : Caught In the ACT, and the PC port of Donald In Cold Shadow.
But it's a totally different topic.

Edit : EarthSiege 2 (a Sierra game, again) uses a mix of WinG.dll and GDI.dll. It's for Win32S (compatible with both Windows 3.11 and 9X).
The two APIs seem to be very compatible.

Reply 13 of 18, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

WinDirect is interesting, I think it's the first time I've heard of it. Thanks for mentioning it! 😀
Essentially, it's a third-party API by the folks of UniVBE.
It works for fullscreen applications and uses VESA VBE.
Really a curiosity.

https://www.cs.hmc.edu/~tsemple/wingames/

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 14 of 18, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Jorpho wrote on 2020-12-05, 19:01:
Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, to be precise. "[T]he first commercial release for the then-recently debuted Windows 95 operating […]
Show full quote
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-05, 10:55:

How about Pitfall?

A Google search for this brought me a 1982 game, and another game by the same but longer name was from 2004. Couldnt get any other info but thanks.

Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, to be precise. "[T]he first commercial release for the then-recently debuted Windows 95 operating system".

Jo22 wrote on 2020-12-05, 11:22:

Out-of-Order, The BreakDown, Sonic CD (PC), HoldOver, etc.

Famously, Sonic CD was released in two versions, the latter of which used DirectX. The first one used something by Intel called "Dino"; I have no idea how that relates to GDI.

Got some information on Dino from a eBay listing: "...The rare Dino version doesn't have the Windows XP Patch, so the only way to play on a modern PC is using the Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 and installing Windows 95 or 98." Many other forums have also mentioned it was a rare game, as opposed to the DX version.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-05, 20:22:
A few games use WinDirect, which totally replaces GDI for them, and it's intended for Windows 3.11 and Windows 9X (thanks Win32S […]
Show full quote

A few games use WinDirect, which totally replaces GDI for them, and it's intended for Windows 3.11 and Windows 9X (thanks Win32S). For example, the PC port of Garfield : Caught In the ACT, and the PC port of Donald In Cold Shadow.
But it's a totally different topic.

Edit : EarthSiege 2 (a Sierra game, again) uses a mix of WinG.dll and GDI.dll. It's for Win32S (compatible with both Windows 3.11 and 9X).
The two APIs seem to be very compatible.

Why did they need Win32S, even if Windows 9x could run 16-bit apps?

Jo22 wrote on 2020-12-05, 22:09:
WinDirect is interesting, I think it's the first time I've heard of it. Thanks for mentioning it! :) Essentially, it's a third- […]
Show full quote

WinDirect is interesting, I think it's the first time I've heard of it. Thanks for mentioning it! 😀
Essentially, it's a third-party API by the folks of UniVBE.
It works for fullscreen applications and uses VESA VBE.
Really a curiosity.

https://www.cs.hmc.edu/~tsemple/wingames/

Games that use VBE, how do they run on newer PC. Like older games would directly communicate with the BIOS, but now there is drivers, and I don't know if there is functionality available for an app to directly communicate with the BIOS.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 15 of 18, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

They target a large userbase (Windows 95 users + Windows 3.11 users) with a single codebase. Also Win32 and its flat memory model is easier to deal with than Win16 and the memory selector mess.

WinDirect provides it's own GDI like API. It also uses undocumented kernel features (which is why fullscreen mode is broken with those two games oustide of Win3X/9X).

Last edited by xcomcmdr on 2020-12-06, 07:51. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 16 of 18, by Jorpho

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-06, 05:39:

Games that use VBE, how do they run on newer PC.

They don't. Or at least, not in fullscreen. Fortunately there are not many like that.

There was some discussion about that in this thread:
Disney Interactive's Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow Patch

Reply 17 of 18, by BEEN_Nath_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Jorpho wrote on 2020-12-06, 06:47:
They don't. Or at least, not in fullscreen. Fortunately there are not many like that. […]
Show full quote
Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2020-12-06, 05:39:

Games that use VBE, how do they run on newer PC.

They don't. Or at least, not in fullscreen. Fortunately there are not many like that.

There was some discussion about that in this thread:
Disney Interactive's Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow Patch

But SciTech MGL and WinDirect the same thing?; the thread has mentioned about the WDIR32.DLL which belongs to the MGL library. And also according to my knowledge, GTA1 uses MGL ,which is a Windows 95 title and does still run on the current gen OS. But again MGL is a middleware for graphics running on DDraw, but WinDirect is a separate API running from VBE, and which shouldn't normally work on current PCs.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 18 of 18, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-06, 06:25:

They target a large userbase (Windows 95 users + Windows 3.11 users) with a single codebase. Also Win32 and its flat memory model is easier to deal with than Win16 and the memory selector mess.

I second that. 😀
Windows 3.1x also has/had a special API called WinMem32.
It is awkward to use, but provides a flat memory model.
It's dependent on the 386 Enhanced Mode, also.
Applications that use it are 32-Bit/386-based programs with the old Win16 header (NE executables).
Not sure if Win9x is fully compatible to that.
I once had short a discussion with ssokolow about it.
Re: Best way of debugging Win16 programs on 64-bit Windows?

That being said, it was rarely used also.
Watcom's Win386 extender was much more convenient and popular.

Edit: By the way, the selector thing wasn't -uhm- bad per se, though. Just cumbersome to use for humans. 😉
Windows 3.x had a cleaner memory model philosophy than Windows 1.x/2.x already.
Since Windows 3.0 (or Windows/386 maybe), programmers are encouraged to not to manipulate memory segments directly anymore, so programs can safely run on all three kernals. The NE header even has a special spot for storing information that do inform Windows 3.0+ whether the application is well written or not. The Mark30 utility can set the flags for font handling and the Windows 3.0 awareness. Even works for Windows 2.x compatible programs.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//