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First post, by vorob

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Guys, I'm currently digging in my new purchase - Apple iBook G4 from 2005 based on Power PC CPU and ATI Mobility 9550. Situation is not that simple since there are no native version of Deus Ex for OSX, so I'm running it via so called Classic Environment, an OS9 half-emulation half-direct access. I've got numerous of issues here but I want to discuss one in particular. Take a look, this is how game looks on PC. Vanilla version, render.

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And this is how it looks like on iBook. Uses RAVE render (Rendering Acceleration Virtual Engine)

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Can you explain in technical language what's the difference here? I definitely see that pictures are not the same, but what's going on? I've tried both games to run in 16 bit, but that doesn't make them similar. I also tried disablin pallets on PC, no change.

Last edited by vorob on 2023-03-17, 10:40. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 14, by leileilol

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I'd assume extreme color precision loss from multiple detail texture layers blended in 16bpp without dithering. That red tint is most concerning, like it's pulling a RIVA128 here. Maybe there's a PowerPlay factor behind this mucking with texture depth/formats/blending as well, as it's a mobility chipset and does that to save battery/temp...

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 3 of 14, by dr.zeissler

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To be clear that it's not a rosetta-thing we need someone to play it in OS9.
I have several machines with OS9 but I do not have a ATI 9550.
The most easiest way should be installing os9.2.2 native on macmini G4 with r9200.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 5 of 14, by vorob

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OS9 can be installed with some hacks on older ibook with ati 9200. 9550 is not presented in os9 drivers so it won't work. But already waiting for older ibook so i'll be able to test the game under classic environment with older gpu and install os9

Reply 7 of 14, by alphaTECH

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I can confirm this happens on OS 9.2.2 also.

RAVE 32-bit textures:
Screenshot-2023-03-15-11-49-57.png

RAVE 16-bit textures:
Screenshot-2023-03-15-11-56-15.png

Software rendering 16-bit textures:
Screenshot-2023-03-15-11-53-52.png

I've also tried playing Deus Ex on a Power Mac G4 with an ATi Rage Pro 128 and OS 9 and a Powerbook G4 with a Radeon Mobility 9200(?) with OS X 10.4, all the same results. It'd be interesting to see if this issue continues if rendering with Glide through a 3DFX card, they're expensive these days though.

This issue persists in other games too, regardless of renderer. Quake II and Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation are affected.

Tomb-Raider-Picture-004.png

As before, but Deus Ex this time.

Deus-Ex-Pict-0003.png

Ignoring the common "dark" bug from the Windows version, here's a screenshot with the right colouring.

dx.png

Last edited by alphaTECH on 2024-03-09, 00:26. Edited 1 time in total.

Power Mac M8493
G4 800 MHz
512 MB SDRAM
ATi Radeon 9000 (64 MB)
128 GB SSD

Reply 8 of 14, by robertmo

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looks like both picture may not be ok
apart from obvious artifacts on both pictures
notice that red picture looks like having more post-processing on the floor, hence the plants reflections are barely visible, while gray has almost mirror-like reflective ground.
may be a result of different gfx settings in game or buggy/not backwards compatible display drivers

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Reply 10 of 14, by vorob

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It's interesting to note that Unreal (OSX on PPC) and Undying look the same as on Windows. But i think they both use OGL, not RAVE. It's sad there was no native OSX version of Deus Ex, or at least some fanmade port.

Reply 11 of 14, by dr.zeissler

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There was an unofficial? OSX PPC Port of unreal but it lacked the music because the soundroutine was never ported to OSX/PPC....AFAIK.
You can play it native in OS9 with a fast PPC/Macmini with the hacked OS9 version...but OS9 lacks of a popper vsync so no big deal here,
but I still like the OS9/Rave Vesions on the some Unreal1 Engine Games, especially the rave renderer...because it looks different!

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 12 of 14, by alphaTECH

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I'm pretty convinced that this issue is related to something in OS 9.2.2. I need someone to test Deus Ex in system 7 or 8 and see if this "red tint" issue goes away. I've tried an ATi Rage 128, 7500, 9000, and a GeForce MX440, two different G4 machines running OS 9.2.2 stock and universal and two G4/G5 machines running OS X 10.4 with 9.2.2 Classic and there has not been a single bit of difference between any of those configurations.

I spoke to Rebecca Heineman of Logicware (she did the Quake 2 port amongst other games) and showed her these shots and she said she never had this issue.

None of these games shown or mentioned were specifically designed for OS 9 in the first place, and 9.2.2 is the common denominator here, hence my theory.

Power Mac M8493
G4 800 MHz
512 MB SDRAM
ATi Radeon 9000 (64 MB)
128 GB SSD

Reply 14 of 14, by alphaTECH

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2024-03-09, 08:55:

red tint is a rave issue, same on quake1.

At what point did it start becoming an issue though? Is there a way to roll back to an earlier version of RAVE? Was Deus Ex drenched in red while running on Mac OS 8 too?

Power Mac M8493
G4 800 MHz
512 MB SDRAM
ATi Radeon 9000 (64 MB)
128 GB SSD