VOGONS


Reply 40 of 56, by villeneuve

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If some genius really manages to release such a device for sale it really needs a digital SPDIF-output in addition to the analog output. I still remember when I got my first DVD drive in 1998 and it had the 2-pin SPDIF-output which I connected to the SoundBlaster Live!. It was a huge improvement since all interference of static noises was gone.
That 200 USD device linked to in this thread sadly only offers analog output.

Reply 41 of 56, by Jo22

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villeneuve wrote on 2020-03-31, 10:07:

If some genius really manages to release such a device for sale it really needs a digital SPDIF-output in addition to the analog output. I still remember when I got my first DVD drive in 1998 and it had the 2-pin SPDIF-output which I connected to the SoundBlaster Live!. It was a huge improvement since all interference of static noises was gone.
That 200 USD device linked to in this thread sadly only offers analog output.

Is S/PDIF still in use ? I assumed it became a similar legacy tech like Display Port, something that completely got replaced by HDMI over the years.
Anyway, I'm positively surprised that DVD drives had discrete audio output at all. Considering, that the "Digital Audio" option was common since computers ran Win98(?) or XP.
To me, audio output is only relevant to DOS and Win 3.1/early Win95 era hardware (and software). That was the time when applications and games issued direct commands to
a true CD-ROM drive (not a DVD drive), bypassing the operating system.

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Reply 42 of 56, by kolderman

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Yes spdif exists wherever stereo sound exists. Plug a tv into a sound bar or receiver with an optical cable? That's spdif right there over toslink. If anything it was replaced by filthy l Dolby digital...for surround sound.

Reply 43 of 56, by oso2k

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kolderman wrote on 2020-03-31, 10:54:

Yes spdif exists wherever stereo sound exists. Plug a tv into a sound bar or receiver with an optical cable? That's spdif right there over toslink. If anything it was replaced by filthy l Dolby digital...for surround sound.

And DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort are being replaced my USB-C.

Reply 45 of 56, by Jo22

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Well, USB-C is ..what it is. A connector. Like DE-9, DE-15, Hosiden, RCA/Chinch.. It has a loose connection (pun intended) to USB and its protocol, but can be used for anything otherwise.

Edit: This gives the "Universal" in USB a truely new dimension, doesn't it ? We can't say the USB people aren't true to their own philosophy. 😉

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Reply 46 of 56, by Tecchie

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Zorix wrote on 2019-07-26, 16:34:
I'm actually working on one. It will be a while before it's done though. […]
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I'm actually working on one. It will be a while before it's done though.

m6O1TMw.jpg

Any update on your project?? I would like to purchase probable two of these...

Reply 47 of 56, by electric_monk

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villeneuve wrote on 2020-03-31, 10:07:

That 200 USD device linked to in this thread sadly only offers analog output.

I'm the guy who created that device - the DAC chip I'm using doesn't offer SPDIF, just analog, but I can certainly look into alternatives. Since it was originally aimed specifically at Dance Dance Revolution arcade PCBs, analog output was the most desired feature (for the original CD-based mixes). Note that the audio output (analog or digital) only relates to CD-ROM simulation though, DVDs never outputted audio via the drive direct in the same way (the DVD audio spec was unused as far as I know, and worked the same as a DVD movie anyway, being entirely decoded by the host system leaving the drive purely to read bytes).

Reply 48 of 56, by keropi

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electric_monk wrote on 2020-05-01, 07:02:

I'm the guy who created that device - the DAC chip I'm using doesn't offer SPDIF, just analog, but I can certainly look into alternatives. Since it was originally aimed specifically at Dance Dance Revolution arcade PCBs, analog output was the most desired feature (for the original CD-based mixes). Note that the audio output (analog or digital) only relates to CD-ROM simulation though, DVDs never outputted audio via the drive direct in the same way (the DVD audio spec was unused as far as I know, and worked the same as a DVD movie anyway, being entirely decoded by the host system leaving the drive purely to read bytes).

so how does it work under a DOS system? the command-line instructions for win/linux apply to DOS as well? how do you get a listing of the images from the usb/sd media?
this is really an interesting device that opens up a whole new world of possibilities 😁

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Reply 49 of 56, by electric_monk

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Currently DOS will just see it as a plain ATAPI drive - you need to connect something via USB if you want to swap disks/etc. (which could be the DOS machine itself, if you could get USB CDC serial devices working under it).

However, I did install Turbo Pascal (the first language I ever really learned) as I wanted to make a utility you could run in DOS to switch images/etc. from inside the host machine, but I didn't have much time to actually work on that yet!

Reply 50 of 56, by fportela

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it would be nice to see these idea finally moves forward. there is another project ongoing, an open source entitled NetPi IDE, which is much more embracing, merging cool ideas like access the CD images through NAS Server, wireless networking in plain DOS.
if more people could contribute, a commercial product would be available more quickly and at a more interesting final price.
the emulation of the optical device seems to be an issue already solved, but there are still projects related to the LCD interface that would control the selection, exchange and ejection of the image through a potentiometer, such as the Gotek-flashfloppy project, are lacking.

Reply 51 of 56, by villeneuve

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electric_monk wrote on 2020-05-01, 07:02:
villeneuve wrote on 2020-03-31, 10:07:

That 200 USD device linked to in this thread sadly only offers analog output.

I'm the guy who created that device - the DAC chip I'm using doesn't offer SPDIF, just analog, but I can certainly look into alternatives. Since it was originally aimed specifically at Dance Dance Revolution arcade PCBs, analog output was the most desired feature (for the original CD-based mixes). Note that the audio output (analog or digital) only relates to CD-ROM simulation though, DVDs never outputted audio via the drive direct in the same way (the DVD audio spec was unused as far as I know, and worked the same as a DVD movie anyway, being entirely decoded by the host system leaving the drive purely to read bytes).

Yes, you're correct about DVD Audio.
So do you have any idea if you could offer an SPDIF-including revision of your device for a more affordable price in case that a good amount of Vogons member and maybe others too would pre-order one?

Reply 52 of 56, by cyclone3d

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Yay for CD emulation. I was actually thinking about this the other day and I came to the conclusion that my ideal device would have a SATA or M.2 connection so I could use huge drives to store CD and DVD images on. Networking would also be nice and better for setups where you have your retro machines where they could be connected to the network.

No need for wireless as that spec is constantly changing and you can get RJ45 to wireless adapters so you can very easily convert your wired devices to wireless if you want.

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Reply 53 of 56, by fportela

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SATA and Giga Ethernet are probably the best choices. M.2 is expensive yet and excessively fast for this kind of application. Latency is not a critical factor here, dont you think?
the fastest cdrom drives of that time reached speeds below 8 megabytes per second (52X) and had typical access times around 150 milliseconds.

Reply 54 of 56, by darry

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Since nobody seems to have mentioned it, there is CD-Berry which, when run on a Raspberry Pi, emulates a USB CD-ROM drive . There is probably no provision for CD audio, but since it's open source, it might become a reality if someone with the right skills gives it a go .

https://github.com/frank1119/CD-berry

Mounting USB CD-ROMs under DOS is possible . --> https://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

IMHO, this has potential .

Reply 55 of 56, by Ozzuneoj

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fportela wrote on 2020-05-23, 00:35:

SATA and Giga Ethernet are probably the best choices. M.2 is expensive yet and excessively fast for this kind of application.

For what it's worth, M.2 is just a form factor. Most M.2 drives are SATA and they are often about the same price as their 2.5" SATA equivalents. You're probably thinking of NVMe drives which are normally found in M.2 form factor but instead use the PCI-Express interface rather than SATA.

For example:
2.5" SATA drive
M.2 SATA drive
Low end M.2 NVMe drive
Higher End M.2 NVMe drive

NVMe can be significantly faster but at the moment the performance makes almost zero real world difference for home use because SATA SSDs are already plenty fast enough. It's been suggested that the use of NVMe SSDs in the next generation of consoles will allow programmers to harness the speed so that loading is smoother\faster, but only time will tell.

For retro PCs though, NVMe has no practical use. Any SSD is going to be several times faster than the interface being used to emulate a CD-ROM.

That said, if adding an M.2 SATA slot along side SATA ports doesn't add much to the expense of any of these retro-upgrade type devices, I would definitely want an M.2 slot. You can buy low capacity M.2 drives pulled from old netbooks for only a few bucks a piece online. They would make amazingly compact and fast drives for retro PCs, it just stinks that there are so many adapters needed to use them as IDE\PATA drives. I use a 16GB M.2 drive (about an inch long) as the primary drive in my 98SE tester system, but it has to be on 3 adapters chained together to make it work. 🤣

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Reply 56 of 56, by pan069

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flecom wrote on 2019-07-31, 22:36:

https://shop.tattiebogle.net/product/prod_EkTnv3Tk2Trxhf

we use these in our arcade machines to replace optical drives in time crisis/DDR etc

I have recently been dicking around trying to get burned CD's to work/read on a 4x speed Creative Drive, driving me nuts, many a time screaming up to the heavens, WHERE IS THE OPTICAL VERSION OF GOTEK???

But that's very nice. But without a way (that I tell at least) to properly mount this in/on a PC enclosure, I also have to say, at the moment its out of my price range unfortunately.

PS: If it could be front-loaded and came with an drive bay something this [1] I'd probably buy one.

[1] https://www.startech.com/au/HDD/Card-Readers/ … ure~35BAYCF2IDE