It's been a while, so I maybe off here, but my understanding with mods (the original 4-track ones) is that although it was not designed to be done this way, some players would map tracks 1 and 4 to the left speaker and 2 and 3 to the right? That's how I (vaguely) recall it working for me at least.

Okay... wrong place, wrong time... but here I am again:

and the game still played out of my Sound Blaster even when specified to use the gravis with the command line!

If you dare something very special, try this:
- pull everthing out of your machine, exept vga, hardisk with starcon2, Ultrasound ACE
- got to bios, disable serial / LPT ports, usb
- go to bios, assign IRQs 3;5;7;11;12;15 to "legacy isa"
- go to bios, assign DMAs 1;3;5;6;7 to "legacy isa"

reboot
start Starcontrol 2
hear the difference
...and, ehm...

- No warranty -

- I did it like that in a GA-6BXC Pentium 3 machine and it worked (yes the original gus-sound) until there was a loud, evil beeeeep! on my left ear (and I had to turn the machine off)
Nevertheless it seems to be an IRQ/DMA thing. The autodetection simply asks every adress if there is "something that could be a soundcard" and in a Plug 'n play system, there is always "Something".... maybe that's the solution...

Riboflavin wrote:

This is oddly-on and oddly-off topic. I wonder if Great Hierophant approves. 😦

Aren't we the awesome thread pirates? Arrr!!!

Riboflavin wrote:

It was still coming out of the Sound Blaster!!! ARG! I did not realize this. So yeah, no enviornment variables, no ctcm, aweutil, ultrainit... none of that and the game still played out of my Sound Blaster even when specified to use the gravis with the command line!

Actually, some games do. Chuck Yeager's Air Combat is one of those; I remember playing CYAC directly from floppies (and using a DOS boot disk) when my hard drive was broken; nope, no environment variables at all, but there were still sounds as when using environment variables.

Riboflavin wrote:

-GUS: The card of choice for nostalgic people who can't get enough tracker music (MOD, S3M, XM, IT, etc). While it supports MIDI music, in general the AWE, Roland and most wavetable options are a better choice. It does sound interesting, however.

Yup. I knew that GUS consumes less CPU resources when playing tracker music, but I still wonder whether GUS actually makes those samples sound better --instead of just faster.

It is unfortunate that there are not many games using .MOD format back then. See, I had an SBPro during that time, and was pretty much dismayed by its lame FM sounds (it was until three years later that I bought an SW60XG). But when I played SC2 on the first time, I was totally blown! (not literally, of course. That would require someone kneeling under my computer's desk). 😁

Then it was the moment when I started tinkering with Mod Editor, Modplay Pro, and Tetra Compositor. Ahh... the good old days *sobs*

Targaff wrote:

It's been a while, so I maybe off here, but my understanding with mods (the original 4-track ones) is that although it was not designed to be done this way, some players would map tracks 1 and 4 to the left speaker and 2 and 3 to the right? That's how I (vaguely) recall it working for me at least.

It seems that I was wrong and you're correct; those players actually pan the inherently-mono .MOD files by mapping the tracks --not the pitch. I heard the Yehat theme song again last night using a WinAmp plugin, and it confirmed your hypothesis.

However, it's been very long time since I tinker with tracker music again; how about newer version of tracker files and editors? Do they allow the author to specify the panning themselves? You know, "extension" flags and such.

Certainly XM and MTM allowed you to specify panning, I presume S3M did too. I only ever wrote anything with XM, however, which IIRC let you pan a sound across 16 points from left to right (i.e. 0 = left, 8 = "centre", 15 = right, plus intermediates).

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Yup. I knew that GUS consumes less CPU resources when playing tracker music, but I still wonder whether GUS actually makes those samples sound better --instead of just faster.

Yes, GUS playback sounds better in games with tracker music, because the GF1 chip interpolates the samples, making sound them less "harsh". In SC2 the difference is easy to notice, because the SB playback/mixing routines are optimised rather for good performance on 286 class machines instead of sound quality.

It has been a long time since I heard SC2 with GUS because of the limitations mentioned in the readme file (I'd have to remove a SB and two Roland cards to run the game in GUS mode).
The music quality is quite good, but I also experienced some strange glitches (like corrupt samples). I think this is because SC2 was one of the first games to support the GUS.

Targaff wrote:

It's been a while, so I maybe off here, but my understanding with mods (the original 4-track ones) is that although it was not designed to be done this way, some players would map tracks 1 and 4 to the left speaker and 2 and 3 to the right? That's how I (vaguely) recall it working for me at least.

The channel mapping was designed like this, on the Amiga sound chip (PAULA) the channels were "hardwired" this way.

5u3 wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Yup. I knew that GUS consumes less CPU resources when playing tracker music, but I still wonder whether GUS actually makes those samples sound better --instead of just faster.

Yes, GUS playback sounds better in games with tracker music, because the GF1 chip interpolates the samples, making sound them less "harsh". In SC2 the difference is easy to notice, because the SB playback/mixing routines are optimised rather for good performance on 286 class machines instead of sound quality.

I see. Come to think of it, is there any tracker music players that can do the same interpolation (but in software) to make the samples sound better? The WinAmp tracker plugin still sounds shitty even compared to SC2 in SB mode. 🙁

Targaff wrote:

Certainly XM and MTM allowed you to specify panning, I presume S3M did too. I only ever wrote anything with XM, however, which IIRC let you pan a sound across 16 points from left to right (i.e. 0 = left, 8 = "centre", 15 = right, plus intermediates).

What editor you're using, by the way? Any recommendations?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I see. Come to think of it, is there any tracker music players that can do the same interpolation (but in software) to make the samples sound better? The WinAmp tracker plugin still sounds shitty even compared to SC2 in SB mode. 🙁

Strange, doesn't WinAmp use MODPlug for tracker music? There should be an option for interpolating somewhere in the plugin settings.
The best tracker music "engine" I know is included in Open Cubic Player. It supports GUS/Interwave/AWE32/EWS chipsets natively and has a high-quality software mixer for all the other soundcards which don't have the ability to play tracker music in hardware.

Cubic Player does indeed sound fantastic. It actually feels like a privilege to use.

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. As time allows I hope to try them all. This whole experiment shook the foundations of how I've come to understand DOS sound. 😊

Speaking of which, Silent Loon, I've heard you mention something about a "Aztech Sound Galaxy NX Pro16" and that it supports the Disney Sound Source. Isn't that a parallel-port device? I'm curious on how that works.

I saw an early VGA game, I think it was "Duck Tales: The Quest for the Gold", where the most advanced sound option was the Disney Sound Source. I kept my eye out for any other games that might have that as the best option, but so far Ducktales is the only one I can think of.

So yeah, if anyone wants to chime in, I'd like the bring up the following essoteric sound options that I know very little about...

Disney Sound Source
Crovox Speech Thing
Sierra Aria
LPT-DAC
GoldWave (goldsound? Golden Sound? Seen this option a few times and actually held the card in my hand yesterday)

dosbox emulates a few of those.
Some users will probably know more games that use the
DSS

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

What editor you're using, by the way? Any recommendations?

I've always been an FT2 fan, took me ages to get the config correct but I managed to get it running natively on my second PC and it still sounds faboo.

As mentioned above, though, I haven't actually done any tracking in years. Probably a good thing for all concerned, tbh.

+1 for Cubic Player, incidentally.

ah, CP rox!

5u3 wrote:

Strange, doesn't WinAmp use MODPlug for tracker music? There should be an option for interpolating somewhere in the plugin settings.

WinAmp (at least mine) uses Nullsoft Module Decoder v2.2.12 (x86), and it has option for interpolation. Still, having listened to ripped SC2 tracker files, the quality is still not on par with that of SC2 engine (even when interpolation is enabled). Worse, it plays low octaves incorrectly by playing them as high ocvates instead --it makes certain songs sound odd, actually.

Riboflavin wrote:

I've heard you mention something about a "Aztech Sound Galaxy NX Pro16" and that it supports the Disney Sound Source. Isn't that a parallel-port device? I'm curious on how that works.

You're right, Riboflavin, DSS was a parallel-port device and the Covox Speech Thing too. The Sound Galaxy simply fakes those devices via a so called "compability module" on the card. I never used it myself, but the manual says that there must be a printer connected (to LPT1) and turned on. But in case you have spent your last money to buy the Azetech card and nothing left for a printer, there is a little jumper on the card, to... well - fake the printer.
The compability mode for those devices can be activated / deactivated by software.

Update Gravis Ultrasound ACE & Star Control 2:

If you dare something very special, try this: - pull everthing out of your machine, exept vga, hardisk with starcon2, Ultrasound […]
Show full quote

If you dare something very special, try this:
- pull everthing out of your machine, exept vga, hardisk with starcon2, Ultrasound ACE
- got to bios, disable serial / LPT ports, usb
- go to bios, assign IRQs 3;5;7;11;12;15 to "legacy isa"
- go to bios, assign DMAs 1;3;5;6;7 to "legacy isa"

I tried it yesterday without pulling anything out, just deactivated / set to legacy isa the above mentioned adresses (simply everthing the Ultrasound might use) and started via a very "pure" boot-disk - and it worked ( no beeping).
Config.sys and autoexec.bat should be without e-variables ("set"), initialization programms a.s.o., but also without memory-manager (emm386 or similar). Mouse driver and smartdrive are also not needed.

The current system is: VIA C3 700Mhz / ECS P6BAT-A+ / 128 MB SDRAM / Diamond Stealth III S540 / Diamond Monster II 8MB (Voodoo2) / Miro Hiscore 3D (Voodoo1) / EWS64XL w. DB50XG (optional / connected via front-box) / Gravis Ultrasound ACE

I tried to make it work with the Ultrasound Classic, but it doesn't. Perhaps because of those IDE/ SCSI- Interfaces?
Is it possible to deactive them (on the card)?
(Can somebody post a list of the jumpers on the GUS Classic - and its functions?)

I have the original setup disks of the ACE, but using them with the classic, the setup-programm refuses to install them, saying the card is no ACE. Does this make sense? Which files are different from the Classic / in the Ultrasnd subdirectory?

5u3 wrote:

The music quality is quite good, but I also experienced some strange glitches (like corrupt samples). I think this is because SC2 was one of the first games to support the GUS.

I also noticed this. Perhaps it is because of this "panning" mentioned before? Playing the ripped files of SC2 in Win98 I don't hear it.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Still, having listened to ripped SC2 tracker files, the quality is still not on par with that of SC2 engine (even when interpolation is enabled). Worse, it plays low octaves incorrectly by playing them as high ocvates instead --it makes certain songs sound odd, actually.

I hear it crystal clear with the EWS and the Win98 software that came with it (even better than the original GUS-sound) Is it a software or a hardware problem?

Silent Loon wrote:

I hear it crystal clear with the EWS and the Win98 software that came with it (even better than the original GUS-sound) Is it a software or a hardware problem?

Well I'm using a WinAmp plugin on a shitty AC97 soundcard on my Toshiba laptop, so well......

Silent Loon wrote:

The current system is: VIA C3 700Mhz / ECS P6BAT-A+ / 128 MB SDRAM / Diamond Stealth III S540 / Diamond Monster II 8MB (Voodoo2) / Miro Hiscore 3D (Voodoo1) / EWS64XL w. DB50XG (optional / connected via front-box) / Gravis Ultrasound ACE

I know this is really off-topic but....

Putting a Voodoo2 and Voodoo1 on the same computer? 😳 So it's actually possible?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I know this is really off-topic but....

Putting a Voodoo2 and Voodoo1 on the same computer? 😳 So it's actually possible?

The Miro Hiscore series came with special drivers for their Voodoo1 and Voodoo2-Boards (the Voodoo1 "Hiscore3d" is a clone of the Canopus Pure 3d with 6MB on it, I've heard). The miro control panel allows you to choose between Hiscore3D and Hiscore2, but it also works if only one card is originally by miro. Maybe it even works with both cards Non-miro (you might get an error message because no tv-out is detected). The driver you can get there: http://www.mirosupport.de/ (this seems to be a semi-private site - don't pay money, just click on "Grafik" and search for the "hiscore1 und 2" / hiscore 3d. File should be "hipro27.exe").
This has the big advantage that you can use i.E. the voodoo1 with DOS or for "delicate" Win games like the 3dfx version of Mechwarrior 2
It has the disadvantage that the drivers are only directX 5, maybe they work sometimes under 6.1. but not allways ( and surely not with directX7 and higher).
Because the voodoos don't need an IRQ, there should be no problem with soundcards in a system.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Well I'm using a WinAmp plugin on a shitty AC97 soundcard on my Toshiba laptop, so well......

That explains something - but where do the strange glitches come from? Is it the GUS or the programming?

The best cards for gaming:

Choices for a low (386 or lower PC)

FM Synthesis:

Sound Blaster Pro 1.0 - 8-bit digitzed sound at 44.1kHz sounds better for games that support it; fully downard compatible, except for Game Blaster, has mixer and better sound output quality. Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 do not support stereo FM of the Pro 1.0, and Sound Blaster 16s or better also do not support stereo digitzed sounds, filtering or stereo mixing of the Pros.

Roland:

MPU-401 + MIF-IPC + CM-32L - Some games use its 33 extra sound effects which the MT-32 doesn't have. Can substitute perfectly with an LAPC-I if you have no interest in an external module.

Other Interesting Options:

Innovation SSI-2001, Covox Sound Master, Covox Speech Thing or Disney Sound Source, Creative Game Blaster, IBM Music Feature Card.

High end PCs (486 & Pentium)

Sound Blaster

Sound Blaster 16 CT-1740 or CT-1750 - True OPL3, 8-bit and 16-bit at 44.1kHz, dynamic filtering, mixer with separate bass & treble parameters, ASP chip, DSP of 4.05, waveblaster connector. I don;t like the CT-1770 because it uses an extra IRQ for the SCSI-2 interface, and the later 16s lose the OPL3 chip and sometimes more.

General Midi

Roland SCM-15AT - A combination of the MPU-401AT and SCB-55. Same midi interface as the SCC-1 but more sounds, more voices & better DAC.

Other: Gravis Ultrasound (Ace is most convenient); Ensoniq Soundscape (Elite w/ daughterboard is best); Yamaha DB50XG or SW60XG; Adlib Gold 1000 (w/reverb module for Dune).

I recommend for a 386/486 PC tha YAMAHA Sound Edge card (SW20-PC).... I had it back then, NEVER had a compatibility problem...
it is OPTI based, has SB-PRO2 and WSS modes, a true OPL chip, and a true OPL-4 with 2MB high quality GM samples. Also there are 128kb of SRAM for loading samples and 3 DSP's than operate in 4 different preset modes (fully configurable) that enhance sound output and can be used in either DOS or Windows without any cpu-eating... I used a DSP setting to make the sound better when using el-cheapo speakers...

I am a GUS owner since I got a 386 (and thats ages ago 😉 ). I am not sure where the problems with this card arise, since it is the most uncomplicated card I have. It simply works.
I had to invest a lot more time to get the PnP cards running, also the halfway PnP-like cards, like the CT2230.

As for the supported sound standards of a soundcard, I would consider three ratings:
- full hardware compatible
- compatible due to a software driver but functional close to the hardware implementation
- compatible due to a software driver but functional far from the hardware implementation

The SB and FM Emulation of the GUS belongs to the last point. So don't try to use the GUS for a sound standard it wasn't build for. Especially today it is very easy to just add f.e. a SB16.

Now the software setup of the GUS itself consists only of setting up the two environment variables and calling ultrinit to setup the connectors.

As for MegaEM (I will exclude SBOS here):
- Use one of the last versions, 3.04b or better 3.10
- Load MegaEM only if you really need it and unload it afterwards.
- Later MegaEM versions include the UltraMIDs splitting features, so loading UltraMID is not needed anymore (I am not sure as of now, if it also includes the autopatchloader). You will save alot of RAM.
- In Realmode use UltraMid if needed. (also use the -c parameter if needed)
- You can 'cover' hardware Midi ports with MegaEM without any problems, so for games you can choose by using MegaEM if you want GUS or another GM device without changing game settings.
- If there is an AIL, MidPak Patch, Driver whatever available use it.
- The UltraMID feature is needed only for digital/music splitting.
- The GUS Ramdrive is Cold-Reset proof.

Package of GUS software: http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/neu/files/gus_basic.zip

I setup my Retro-PC with a
GUS, AWE32 and Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio,
thats in DOS sound standards:
GUS,
SBPro, SB16, AWE, FM <- all PnP
SB Pro, FM, WSS, GM <- all PnP
They all can be used independently and at the same time. The difficult thing is to get the PnP cards take the resources you want.

I did a lot of testing with my two GUS soundcards (Classic and ACE) and despite the fact that this thread is a little bit old, may be its time for an update:

Riboflavin wrote:

Oh, and here's something kinda neat... a little downhome hacking solution to... […]
Show full quote

Oh, and here's something kinda neat... a little downhome hacking solution to...

Upgrading a GUS ACE to 1mb!

It's actually pretty easy. After searching everywhere for vintage memory chips that matched the first one, in vain I might add... I simply took an exacto knife to an old graphics card that had a row of similar looking memory chips.

Low and behold! Worked great.

This also works with the GUS Classic! I simply took those 20-pin 128k-DRAMs from an old Tseng Labs ISA-VGA-Card ... and it works (exact model numbers on request). I wondered what's the use of it in games (despite having now the bombastic 1MB-Gus) but than I compared the two "versions" (256k - 1MB) starting DESCENT: With 256/512K memory equipped the game loads 59 patches, with 1Mb 63, which results in some sound improvement because of additional instruments.

If you dare something very special, try this: - pull everthing out of your machine, exept vga, hardisk with starcon2, Ultrasound […]
Show full quote

If you dare something very special, try this:
- pull everthing out of your machine, exept vga, hardisk with starcon2, Ultrasound ACE
- got to bios, disable serial / LPT ports, usb
- go to bios, assign IRQs 3;5;7;11;12;15 to "legacy isa"
- go to bios, assign DMAs 1;3;5;6;7 to "legacy isa"

This does not seem to be necessary. Star Control 2 searches for the default GUS settings, that are: 220, 1,1,11,5. So the cards I/O has to be configured on Port 220, DMA 1, IRQs 5 AND 11 have to be reserved (in BIOS) for the card. As 220, 1, 5 are the default values of the soundblaster, problems will arise if a SB or compatible card is configured with the same settings.
Nevertheless SC2 now works on my machine with an EWS64XL, the ACE and a Monstersound MX300 plugged in at the same time. The ACE does not even have to be initialized, (the Classic has to).

I had to invest a lot more time to get the PnP cards running, also the halfway PnP-like cards, like the CT2230.

Unfortunatly the combination of a GUS and a PnP-ISA-Card seems to be the weak point. My system / its BIOS or the EWS64XL recognize the ACE somehow, but not as that what it is. So I have problems to activate the gameport of the EWS because the card suspects the ACE holding the port on adress 201h (as you know: the ACE has no gameport!). Even initializing the GUS with the -dj (disable joystick) command via autoexec.bat doesn't solve the problem.
Any suggestions?

To KAN and the other MOD/MED/STM/S3M/XM et al Trackerfile commentators:-

1. As far as I understand it Star Control II's music was stereo by the mere fact that the original MOD format came from the Amiga and it's 4 channel sound was actually two stereo hard panned streams. Channels 1 and 3 were both left while 2 and 4 were both right. The reason the original PC MOD trackers only used volume control 'characters' was that they took their lead from the original MOD trackers on Amiga where mucking with volume of a given sample basically led to pan effects - ie the louder a sample was played in Channel 2 the 'closer' it sounded to a sample playing in Channel 4 etc etc.

2. Star Control II sounds louder on GUS because the GF1 isn't splitting it's bitstream into divisions where multiple samples play at the same time. In other terms the SB and alike cards are all treated the same way by SC2's 'modplayer' - any samples playing are all squeezed into a space where natively only one can play at a given time, so to compensate for noise/collision data the overall volume is lowered. This was the 'de riguer' standard for playing multichannel audio via SB and similar cards of the day - almost all demos were louder and clearer when using a GUS vs any kind of SB card. It's also the reason why ACCESS games that used PC Speaker for sample playback were also quiet.

Sorry to go too far offtopic but...
If you're gonna talk about Star Control II, we should at least make mention of the 'Ur'Quan Masters' remake which is endorsed by the original developers, wholly opensourced and is available for download on Sourceforge. For those who don't know, it's a freeware Windows/Linux/BEOS/MAC OSX remake and includes full speech, remixed music and graphics from the 3DO and PC versions - with the ability to choose from either a PC or 3DO centric look and feel. You change the music between the original PC or remixed 3DO versions. I won't post the link but I'm sure fans can find it if they look.