Hi and welcome to the board! 😀

That's a very nice looking board. The onboard V3 is great, as it has the full 16MB RAM, and the slightly reduced core clock doesn't matter that much with Glide games. However, the V3 might not work with very old DOS-based Glide games, they are only compatible with the original Voodoo1 PCI cards.
The onboard sound chip also seems nice, but I don't know how good the SB Pro and MIDI emulation is on YMF-7xx chips.

If you can acquire this board+CPU cheaply, I'd say go for it. It will be great for Win9x games, and if it causes problems with DOS games, there are enough PCI and ISA slots to try out other hardware. If you can switch off the onboard VGA and sound in the BIOS, you could insert the ET6000, a Voodoo1, the SB16 and the Turtle Beach soundcard and be compatible with everything 😉

5u3 wrote:

Hi and welcome to the board! :happy: […]
Show full quote

Hi and welcome to the board! 😀

That's a very nice looking board. The onboard V3 is great, as it has the full 16MB RAM, and the slightly reduced core clock doesn't matter that much with Glide games. However, the V3 might not work with very old DOS-based Glide games, they are only compatible with the original Voodoo1 PCI cards.
The onboard sound chip also seems nice, but I don't know how good the SB Pro and MIDI emulation is on YMF-7xx chips.

If you can acquire this board+CPU cheaply, I'd say go for it. It will be great for Win9x games, and if it causes problems with DOS games, there are enough PCI and ISA slots to try out other hardware. If you can switch off the onboard VGA and sound in the BIOS, you could insert the ET6000, a Voodoo1, the SB16 and the Turtle Beach soundcard and be compatible with everything 😉

Hi 5u3, cheers for the welcome!

I have never personally used a Voodoo3 before, so I was unsure if its a good thing to have an onboard Voodoo3 (vs. a separate PCI or AGP video card) given my desire to play a couple of DOS Glide games and a whole bunch of Win Glide games - glad to hear you approve of it!

Unfortunately this mobo+cpu lot doesn't come with the original manual and driver CD 🙁 And a quick Google didn't seem to come up with any useful info on how to exactly disable the onboard Voodoo3 should I desire to do so - I hazard a guess that I can do it via BIOS config. Like my unfamiliarity with this Yamaha YMF-740, these are 'unknowns' I'll be willing to risk given its relatively cheap price atm.

And you rightly pointed out that this mobo has enough PCI and ISA slots for me to put other hardware on, e.g. if the YMF-740 can't cut it either in DOS or Windows gaming, then I can hopefully disable it and install the SB 16 ISA / TB Aureal Vortex 2.

The *only* other downside I think I've come up with, is that this is an Atrend mobo - Atrend disappeared a few years ago, their FTP site for mobo drivers went with it. This is somewhat of a concern, compared to other 440BX mobos I've heard bandied about here on VOGONS (Abit BE6/BF6, Aopen AX6BC, Asus P2B/P3B-F, MSI 6163, etc.) - these mobo vendors are still there and provide mobo drivers for these mobos.

I've managed to find and download 2 separate BIOS update zipfiles, both seem to be the same thing (i.e. same CRC32) - but that's it. I have no idea if there were Windows 9x/NT-specific motherboard/chipset drivers that were released by Atrend for this specific mobo and/or its onboard components (Voodoo3 and the YMF-740) - if there were, I haven't found them by Google 😐

Anyway, thanks for the thumbs up, I will now try and get it (at a cheap price hopefully)!

5u3 wrote:

However, the V3 might not work with very old DOS-based Glide games, they are only compatible with the original Voodoo1 PCI cards

I have to concur with 5u3 here --there are quite a lot of DOS GLide games (and early Windows GLide games) that only works with Voodoo1 or Vooodo2.

The problem with the mobo is that is has onboard Voodoo3, so it seems that you can't put a Voodoo1 card on the mobo without disabling the onboard Voodoo3. See, IIRC, different version of Voodoo cards cannot exist on the same mobo (you cannot put a Voodoo1 and a Voodoo3, for example).

However, if you just want to play DOS games, Voodoo cards are known for their excellent VESA compatibility.

.

5u3 wrote:

The onboard sound chip also seems nice, but I don't know how good the SB Pro and MIDI emulation is on YMF-7xx chips.

I don't know about YMF-740, but YMF-724 is one of the PCI sound card that can work in DOS without needing EMS, making it one of the PCI sound cards that can work with Ultima 7.

Hi all

Kreshna, your comment (and 5u3's) regarding the Atrend mobo's Voodoo3 not liking early DOS Glide games, has led me to think aloud: Is it worth me changing my aim of having a single all-in-one Win9x/DOS gaming box into having 2 separate machines instead - each dedicated to one OS platform?

My quick thoughts on this are:
PC 1: for pure DOS and DOS Glide gaming only (e.g. Mechwarrior 2 3dfx, Redguard)

• - my Pentium 200 + my SB 16 PnP ISA + my Tseng Labs 2MB PCI
  - get hold of a Voodoo 1 or use my existing Voodoo2 8MB
  - any other VOGONS member-recommended peripheral?

PC 2: a gruntier machine for purely Win 9x gaming, including Win Glide games and 1998-2002 era Direct3D/OpenGL games (e.g. Half-Life 1, Twisted Metal 2, Sub Culture, Unreal Tournament, System Shock 2)

• - the Pentium 450 + Atrend mobo w/ onboard Voodoo3 I'm trying to buy (plus case,psu,ram,kb etc.)
  - since this box is for Windows gaming only, I no longer have to worry about disabling the onboard Voodoo3 right? The Voodoo3 with its 16MB of memory *should* be able to play not just the more modern Win Glide games, but even 1998-2002 era Direct3D/OpenGL games? I mean, the 16MB Voodoo3 2000 chip is not underpowered for these games is it?
  - For Win 9x gaming purposes, I'm not actually sure if the onboard YMF-740 is better or worse than my existing Turtle Beach Montego (Aureal Vortex 2) PCI card for Windows gaming? i.e. MIDI quality, positional audio for FPS gaming?

Can I ask the VOGONS folks here: Would these 2 machines be better at serving to encompass the broad spectrum of DOS, DOS Glide, Windows Glide games that I'd love to play in all their glory (or as practically close to that ideal as possible..)? Or should I try to stick to my original idea of having an all-in-one DOS & Win9x gaming machine?

I have to concur with 5u3 here --there are quite a lot of DOS GLide games (and early Windows GLide games) that only works with Voodoo1 or Vooodo2.

I didn't know that those old DOS games worked with the Voodoo2, only the Voodoo 1. Was a fix discovered?

I hope you guys don't mind a long post on this topic, but I just joined to board too and this subject struck a cord, so here goes...

That sounds like an excellent choice for a setup. I like a Pentium 2/3 in the neighborhood of 400mhz. I personally have a similar Microstar Motherboard in my main retro machine (I can't remember the model, but it was highly rated in it's time).

So I have a very similar setup to yours, with the exception of having an Nvidia Geforce 2 MX as the graphics cards with 2 Voodoo 2 add-in boards in SLI mode. Everything runs like a dream, expecially the native DOS games. Even Mechwarrior 2 runs at like 60fps in 1024x768 even without the Voodoos. The only major exceptions being Glaunch and ZSnes in triple-buffered mode, but that's the fault of the Nvidia. And thanks to this VOGONS I'm convinced that I should try Voodoo Banshees and replace my whole 3 card mess. They are supposedly in the mail, but anyway...

But the Pentium 2 400 setup left a lot to be desired in the Windows direction. I was making so many compromises with Windows games in terms of speed, I just resigned to the notion that it would just be for DOS games and emulation (with some of the DOS voodoo games like Tomb Raider and Descent 2 being a very nice treat). So as far as Windows games, with the exception of Voodoo games and early Geforce 2 era games, it really wasn't the best PC setup for windows, but it was just about optimum for DOS.

But there was a neat solution ahead! Read on...

First of all, if you're going to run DOS at all, there's no substitute for a Sound Blaster ISA card (AWE64 or AWE32 are the best, and cheap). These sound cards will run any DOS game/emulator you can find with almost no compromise. If you are crazy and need to track down GUS or ROLAND cards, PM me. They are fun, but only necessary if you are trying to run demoscene stuff (the GUS) or achieve audio retro DOS nirvana (Roland) on native hardware.

Sorry about the long back story, but here's why I brought that up...

The SOYO SY-P41 845PC ISA motherboard.

Yep, that's right, a P4 motherboard with 3 (count 'em 3) ISA slots. It's quite a bunch of effort to go, but it solves the native DOS sound problem pretty solidly (it's even got the extra slots for my Roland and GUS for a sound snob like me). This motherboard was discontinued just recently, but it can still be had. I read that SOYO has a new one that supports the even newer Pentiums (but I think it's only got one ISA slot). Can't remember the new socket type. Socket 478 with 3 ISA was perfect for me when I bought this about a year ago.

If you're the kind of guy who'd consider putting a jet engine in a Volkswagon, this is a motherboard you might like to check out for a retro-gaming PC. I have nothing but good things to say about it. The built-in AC97 sound chip even has basic sound-blaster emulation built into the BIOS, but I'd still recommend turning it off and using the real thing if you have access to one.

Since it was brought up about having two different machines, one for DOS and one for Windows, which I think is normally a very good idea, this might be the motherboard for someone who wants no compromises. Be prepared to shell out tho, I payed something like 180 bucks for mine.

Soyo Downsides:
-Be prepared to use MOSLO quite a bit for the older stuff. And/Or TPPatch for that matter.

Soyo Upsides:
-Surprising absence of technical glitches and crashes when poking around in DOS 7 and using utilities.
-You'll never have to worry about your computer slowing down as a result of VSYNC again, at least in DOS!
-DOS demos and things like Quake run at a framerate that approaches the speed of light.

So that's my experience I felt like sharing. Um... cheers!

Quick pointer:

Another thing to check with the motherboard you are considering... WHAT IT THE HARD-DRIVE LIMIT OF YOUR BIOS! Since it's a P3 motherboard, chances are good it's at least 120gigs. But it's very possible you might be stuck with 30 gig limit. Just from personal experience, this is one of the first things I would test. Don't assume there's a BIOS update either... many times there's not! Don't believe it until you see "40+ gigs" free somewhere on your screen. It sucks being stuck with 30-gig capped hard-drives or *shudder* SCSI as your only options.

-Riboflavin

www.rom.by

can patch Award BIOS drive limit.
(there is a english link somewhere on that site)

Great Hierophant wrote:

I have to concur with 5u3 here --there are quite a lot of DOS GLide games (and early Windows GLide games) that only works with Voodoo1 or Vooodo2.

I didn't know that those old DOS games worked with the Voodoo2, only the Voodoo 1. Was a fix discovered?

Great Hierophant, I assume Kreshna's comment referred to how one can use modified batch files to force a standard Voodoo2 to behave like a Voodoo1 from the perspective of a <insert appropriate DOS Glide game here>?

Come to think of it, although I personally haven't owned a Voodoo1, I'd like to know if someone has a reasonably accurate/definitive list of these DOS Glide games that liked Voodoo1 but not Voodoo2? Can someone point to such a list, or rattle it off the top of their head? 😀

Hi Riboflavin! Welcome to the board! 😀

All-in-one Win9x/DOS gaming box + compromises vs. 2 separate boxen with little or no compromises
Your MSI box was what my original "all-in-one Win9x/DOS gaming box" plan kinda sounded like when I started thinking about making it a retro PC project a couple of days ago! So you had the GF2 MX for Win9x games, then switched over to the Voodoo2 SLI when you booted in DOS for DOS Glide games correct? Although now, you seem to like the idea of using Voodoo Banshee instead of the 3 cards for purely DOS or both DOS & Windows gaming??

I was hopeful that if I get my hands on the Atrend ATC6254M, then I would be in a '1 card fits all' scenario w.r.t. DOS 2D, DOS Glide, early Win 9x Glide games - but then I had to reconsider given others' comments on incompatibility between old DOS Glide games and Voodoo3... Hence my reconsidering splitting the project into 2 separate boxes, 1 for DOS 2D & DOS Glide, the other for whatever Win 9x Glide, 1998-2002 era Direct3D/OpenGL Windows games I can throw at it 😀

Anyway, you found your P2 400 box to be too slow for certain Windows games?? Can you give examples? I own a large amount of 1998-2002 era Windows games that I was planning to re-play on the above P2 450 + Atrend w/ Voodoo3 onboard setup as above - so I'm curious to know if your games overlap with some of mine and if these are then truly bogged down by a P2 400??

This post is getting a little long, so I'll PM you the rest of the stuff I wanted to ask you about (Soyo box, Roland soundcard goodness?!)

Hehehe, "Frungy nationals" - nice sig! I'm a Star Control 2 fan too! 😀

Greetings Back!

Well, the idea of a Voodoo 3 built-in graphics card sounds very exotic and appealing.

Lemme give ya a quick run-down on what I know about the Voodoos... Voodoo 1 and Voodoo 2 boards were 3D only boards... that's it. NO 2D graphics at all. That meant ya had to have another 2D only graphics card in your machine to be able to see pretty much anything.

That changed with the Voodoo 3 and Voodoo Banshee (which is basically a "lite" Voodoo 2 integrated into a fully-rounded 2D card). So in my case I use the Geforce 2 for everything except when a Glide game kicks in.

I've liked my Geforce 2 so much that I pretty much shyed away from Voodoo 3s and 5s to tell you the truth. The idea of playing Glide games was an upgrade after I built my machine. I thought "Woah! I can play some nice 3D games in DOS just by finding a "add-in" card for cheap on ebay!". That pretty much proved to be true, although the games I could actually get working were just a precious few. Here's the list:

Descent 2 (worth the price of admission in my opinion)
Tomb Raider (with a special set of "fake-out" environment variables mentioned elsewhere on the board)
GTA 1
... Keep in mind that this is only in DOS, the choice of games is much higher with Windows.

I got Dreams to Reality working also, but only with a genuine Voodoo 1 board. I've spent a lot of time trying to get Blood and Carmageddon working, but to no avail. I'm hoping maybe I can get these games to go properly with the Banshee when it gets here. I'm looking for a copy of Elder Scrolls: Redguard... I simply haven't tried that one yet but it looks good.

Besides a Demo or two, that's really all the games I've been able to get running with a real voodoo card in DOS. Very few. It was MUCH harder than I expected to get everything working right, even just for this handful of games! Glide is a pain, but it does look beautiful when it works.

Since your mobo has a Voodoo 3, you might be in for even more of a challenge, although there is some hope- but you are going to be forced to use Windows. If you can get the drivers set up for your Voodoo 3 in windows (which is also a pain, but at least it's not as game-by-game, well... not as much)... you can install games with Glide support there and expect them to look nice.

But the Voodoo 1 games (most of the dos ones are listed at www.glidos.net) might be very very difficult to run on a Voodoo 3. Getting Voodoo 1 games to run on a Voodoo 2 was quite a challenge, and a Voodoo 3 is yet another generation. If you don't like technical problems that boarder on programming, I'd recommend sticking to Glidos or Dosbox for these things, and just use the horsepower of a modern processor.

Oh, but to answer your question, I am hoping that the Banshee replaces all three cards in my machine. I'm not really taking advantage of the Geforce's 3D capacity at all, so it's just there as a Vesa-VGA card. I've heard good things about the Banshees VESA compatibility since joining to board, and since it's got a Voodoo 2 built-in, I'm going to give it a shot.

Um... and specific examples? My big acid test was Ultima 9. That one had native support for Glide and/or OpenGL. I had this big beefy dual Voodoo2 SLI setup and thought that I could surly get nice performance out of Ultima 9 in Glide mode. Well, as hot as the Voodoo2 got, the Geforce 2 could still out-perform them bar none. Disappointing kinda.

But really, I thing the reason I stuck to DOS was that companies are still technically making Win98 games, and there's no way most new games are going to run nicely on a P2 400. I just didn't want to have to make a judgement call on each game and potentially waist a lot of time and then get disappointed with the resulting framerate. Also, Windows games tend to take up huge amounts of hard-drive space and/or require a CD. I had to draw the retro-line somewhere, and for me it was Windows.

I don't have any windows games installed on the P2 anymore (the Soyo has since taken over in that respect), so I can't give you too many specific speeds if you want comparisons. I'm sure you can get a lot of games to run very nice 'n fast on a P2 or P3 with a respectable graphics card. Anything with the Quake 2 engine (Alice, Medal of Honor, etc) should be beautiful.

Oh, and yeah, I can talk about Roland goodness for entirely too long if you like 😉. I have some other tips too... until recently I didn't think it was possible to run Neo Geo stuff at full speed on this rig. I've since found a way. So if you're into consoles, a 400 mhz machine can deliver all the way through the 16 bit era.

Hehehe... so that's the long story.

So yes... newbs unite! Welcome aboard yourself!

FRUNGY FRUNGY FRUNGY!

Oh yeah, and since you asked, the only DOS Voodoo game I've found that ONLY likes Voodoo 1 (no matter what anyone has been able able to do) is Dreams to Reality.

Carmaggeddon and Blood I haven't been able to get working with either a voodoo 1 or a 2.

There's lots of factors- manipulating enviorment variables and/or different glide drivers in the game directory, and often game patches. I remember there were serious communities back when these were current about all the things you had to do to get games working with different voodoos. A few of my friends kept telling me about it, and it all sounded like a confusing waste of time. 🙄

Now they can't stand to hear ME talk about it. HA! 😵

Elsewhere on the site, looks like the folks have done a lot of the work for ya's...

Windows Glide Games List

One off-site resource I often reference is Moody's Voodoo 2 FAQ. But it's getting hard to find a link to that vintage document that isn't just a bunch of popups. I found it by doing a search for it on Google, then click on "cached".

I hope this helps.

Wow! My first semi-short post! 😊

Games that use a separate glide2x.ovl are most likely to be working with the later voodoo boards by replacing the ovl file. But some games (some Tomb Rider patches, Fatal Racing...) that have glide code directly linked in the executable need voodoo1. This can't be fixed with bat files...

slipkord wrote:

Great Hierophant, I assume Kreshna's comment referred to how one can use modified batch files to force a standard Voodoo2 to behave like a Voodoo1 from the perspective of a <insert appropriate DOS Glide game here>?

It did. Most of the "patches" for Voodoo2 or Voodoo3 are actually .BAT files to set environment variables.

slipkord wrote:

Come to think of it, although I personally haven't owned a Voodoo1, I'd like to know if someone has a reasonably accurate/definitive list of these DOS Glide games that liked Voodoo1 but not Voodoo2? Can someone point to such a list, or rattle it off the top of their head? 😀

Um, I have made a thread accordingly, but there have been no such list so far. 😢

slipkord wrote:

Hi all

Kreshna, your comment (and 5u3's) regarding the Atrend mobo's Voodoo3 not liking early DOS Glide games, has led me to think aloud: Is it worth me changing my aim of having a single all-in-one Win9x/DOS gaming box into having 2 separate machines instead - each dedicated to one OS platform?

Mind you, that some of Voodoo1 -only games are actually Windows games. Mechwarrior 2 3dfx edition, for instance, is a Win9x game, yet it is a Voodoo1 -only game (it needs special environment variable settings to work with Voodoo2).

So PC 1 should be a DOS/Win9x dual-boot, with Voodoo1 (or Voodoo2 if you have all the necessary patches). The purpose of this PC is to play 'early' Glide games like Archimedean Dynasty (DOS) or Mechwarrior 2 3dfx (Windows).

The PC 2, which will be beefier for pure Win95 gaming, should have a Voodoo3 or Voodoo5 card (Voodoo4 just ain't worth it!) to play later Glide games like Unreal Tournament.

In short, it's not DOS/Win9x issue, but Voodoo1/Voodoo3 issue instead.

Actually, myself doesn't have such setup, because I'm still trying to find the correct environment variables to play 'Voodoo1-only games' with my Voodoo5. If such environment variables are found, then it will eliminate the need of PC 1 above.

Riboflavin wrote:

Sorry about the long back story, but here's why I brought that up... […]
Show full quote

Sorry about the long back story, but here's why I brought that up...

The SOYO SY-P41 845PC ISA motherboard.

Yep, that's right, a P4 motherboard with 3 (count 'em 3) ISA slots. It's quite a bunch of effort to go, but it solves the native DOS sound problem pretty solidly (it's even got the extra slots for my Roland and GUS for a sound snob like me). This motherboard was discontinued just recently, but it can still be had. I read that SOYO has a new one that supports the even newer Pentiums (but I think it's only got one ISA slot). Can't remember the new socket type. Socket 478 with 3 ISA was perfect for me when I bought this about a year ago.

If you're the kind of guy who'd consider putting a jet engine in a Volkswagon, this is a motherboard you might like to check out for a retro-gaming PC.

I am, and I already have TWO of Soyo SY-845PE ISA motherboard, but I'm still hesitating to build it into my DOS-bootable system, because I'm still concerned about many things.

The first concern is old ISA cards; will they work with the Soyo motherboard? I guess SB AWE should work, because yours does, but how about older cards like Roland LAPC or Thrustmaster ACM game card? 😖

Riboflavin wrote:

Soyo Downsides:
-Be prepared to use MOSLO quite a bit for the older stuff. And/Or TPPatch for that matter.

And this is where my second concern goes. I don't have too many problems with Microprose's games, because they're not speed-sensitive (higher clockspeed translates to better frame rate). Origin's games, on the other hand, is my biggest concern because they are way too speed-sensitive. I don't need Moslo when playing Origin's Strike Commander in Pentium 100, but I guess I'll have some trouble running it on a Pentium 4 processor (with the Soyo 845 ISA mobo).

What games you need Moslo to run? And how reliable Moslo is? I've tried Moslo with Ultima VII part 1, and it goes without problem, but with Ultima VII Serpent Isle, it makes the MIDI music plays slowly that it sounds odd, so I abandoned Moslo at all when playing Serpent Isle, but it is a Pentium 100 anyway so it won't be much problems.

Also, what is the ideal Pentium 4 processor to put on the Soyo 845 ISA mobo? I guess 3.06 GHz (the fastest supported by the mobo) will be way too fast for DOS games. Probably something with speed below 2 GHz? IIRC Pentium 4 1.x GHz (1.5 GHz or such) is even slower than Pentium III, so it may be ideal for the DOS games --and still fast enough for the Win 9x games.

Also, the Soyo 845 ISA supports Celerons as well. How about putting a Celeron on the Mobo? Maybe it will be ideal for DOS games, but how about Win 9x games like Jane's USAF? (for example, USAF needs SSE3 for better graphic --do Celerons support SSE3?)

What CPU do you use with the Soyo 845 ISA mobo? And how's your experience so far?

I don't need Moslo when playing Origin's Strike Commander in Pentium 100, but I guess I'll have some trouble running it on a Pentium 4 processor (with the Soyo 845 ISA mobo).

What games you need Moslo to run? And how reliable Moslo is? I've tried Moslo with Ultima VII part 1, and it goes without problem, but with Ultima VII Serpent Isle, it makes the MIDI music plays slowly that it sounds odd, so I abandoned Moslo at all when playing Serpent Isle, but it is a Pentium 100 anyway so it won't be much problems.

Also, what is the ideal Pentium 4 processor to put on the Soyo 845 ISA mobo? I guess 3.06 GHz (the fastest supported by the mobo) will be way too fast for DOS games. Probably something with speed below 2 GHz? IIRC Pentium 4 1.x GHz (1.5 GHz or such) is even slower than Pentium III, so it may be ideal for the DOS games --and still fast enough for the Win 9x games.

My view on the proper speed for a processor are as follows: If you are using something faster than a Pentium II, a DOS game will probably run the same, if at all, whether the clock speed is at 500Mhz or 3.0GHz.

As for Ultima VII and Serpent Isle, fortunately Serpent Isle has a frame limiter to keep the game from running too fast. Ultima VII does not, so you will need a slowdown device.

Greetings Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman,

2 Soyos?!? I'm envious! Wow!

Yeah, go ahead. My friend (who knows the tech specs of ISA) was voicing my concerns when I first told him about this:

"wow... they must have done some tweeky stuff to run an ISA bus with the CPU at that clock speed."

Well, yeah... you'd think it would screw everything up... the ISA cards would slow the system down or something. Well... you'd think! But I'm glad to report... um don't seem to.

I mean, I don't have any instruments to measure the thing, but running the Sound Blaster or any of my other cards, in Windows or DOS, does not appear to slow anything down or crash anything. It behaves just like the ISA bus on a P2 system in terms of reliability/compatibility.

Here's my Soyo setup:

-Geforce4 TI 128mb AGP 4x (main graphics card)
-Quantum 3D Obsidian X-24 dual Voodoo2 SLI PCI
-Diamond Monster Sound PCI
-Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold ISA
-Roland SCC-1 ISA
-Gravis Ultrasound ACE ISA

... running with a P4 2.8g with 1 gig of DDR3200.

Works nice! There's patch-cords everywhere but that's part of the fun.

But you got me on the Thrustmaster ACM card. Up til now I've never heard of this card! Okay, I'll check it out.

Oh, but speed-too-fast issues. Well, yeah you named it... Origin's games are the most difficult of all. Most arcade games and stuff (one-must-fall, star control 2, doom) all run fine, but Origin's Wing Commander stuff tends to be a headache. Since I couldn't even get Wing Commander 2 to run at a proper speed on a P2, all I can say is be prepared for a bit of a mess and a lot of testing.

Good thing is that this is the exception and not the rule, most games from other companies, clock-dependant for gameplay or not, tend to work with a much higher success rate than stuff from Origin.

In fact, Great Hierophant seems to be right. At least as a rule-of-thumb, if the DOS game ran fine on my P2, it ran on the Soyo P4 almost exactly the same.

I'd recommend a P4 2.8. If you can FIND a P4 3.06gig socket 478, go for that. But they are usually twice the price as the 2.8gig. Why? It has to be 533 Front-Side-Bus. Make SURE your processor is 533FSB (NOT 800!) for this MOBO. Intel did not make many 3.06 gig processors with 533FSBs, so they tend to be expensive and rare. Also, I did the math once and if I recall correctly, the multipliers for the memory work out better with a 2.8gig. So that's what I use and recommend.

It's a very stable motherboard. Soyo's are built for overclocking, so if you don't overclock, you are usually fine 😀. Very stable, no complaints. I'd prefer a Soyo board over an Asus even if it didn't have ISA. Battlefield 1942 works great, as well as, um... BC's Quest for Tires. I haven't upgraded it in over a year tho, it might be time for a new graphics card.

I can't answer the Celeron question, I'm afraid. I simply haven't tried it.

Riboflavin wrote:

Greetings Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman,

2 Soyos?!? I'm envious! Wow!

😁

Riboflavin wrote:

Yeah, go ahead. My friend (who knows the tech specs of ISA) was voicing my concerns when I first told him about this:

"wow... they must have done some tweeky stuff to run an ISA bus with the CPU at that clock speed."

Well, yeah... you'd think it would screw everything up... the ISA cards would slow the system down or something. Well... you'd think! But I'm glad to report... um don't seem to.

I see. I believe Soyo has done a great job of putting ISA slots on P4 mobo. 😀

Riboflavin wrote:

-Geforce4 TI 128mb AGP 4x (main graphics card) -Quantum 3D Obsidian X-24 dual Voodoo2 SLI PCI -Diamond Monster Sound PCI -Sound […]
Show full quote

-Geforce4 TI 128mb AGP 4x (main graphics card)
-Quantum 3D Obsidian X-24 dual Voodoo2 SLI PCI
-Diamond Monster Sound PCI
-Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold ISA
-Roland SCC-1 ISA
-Gravis Ultrasound ACE ISA

The SCC-1 works with P4? 😳

Riboflavin wrote:

Oh, but speed-too-fast issues. Well, yeah you named it... Origin's games are the most difficult of all. Most arcade games and stuff (one-must-fall, star control 2, doom) all run fine, but Origin's Wing Commander stuff tends to be a headache. Since I couldn't even get Wing Commander 2 to run at a proper speed on a P2, all I can say is be prepared for a bit of a mess and a lot of testing.

Yes, Origin's games is always my biggest headache too. Even Wing Commander 2 is a PITA when being ran on Pentium 100. What is the best way to slow down Origin's games, then? Is there anything out there better than Moslo? 😢

Heheh, yep! The SCC-1 works on the Soyo. This is a good motherboard!

HAHAHA! How do you get Wing Commander to run correctly? Believe me... I tried EVERYTHING... including WORKING FOR ORIGIN TECH SUPPORT!

I'm not kidding. I did a six-month tech support contract with Origin and... no, couldn't get a LOT of their dos games working. All their games have tech support issues up the wazoo! Have you seen how many patches were released for Ultima 9!?!

No... there's no freekin way to get these games to work properly on a fast machine in the real world. In the UNreal world,. however, there is DOSbox, and that's the only way. This emulator was written by wizards who know how to solve things. Outside of dosbox, I tried evey slowdown program known to man and nothing gave it the smooth feeling of running on a 386/486/whatever-the-game-was-made-for.

If you really want to trip someone out, call the Origin tech support 800 number (now part of EA, and the same phone number as Westwood tech support) and tell them to start reading you every solution they have for Wing Commander speed issues in their Scopus database. Say it by name for maximum effect... "SCOPE-US! Read me everything you have in SCOPE-US!"

So yeah, anyway... dang Origin! Making good games we can't run anymore! How dare they?! 😒

(Did you know the Ultima Collection box set released by EA had a licensed version of Moslo on it? 😒 )

But BACK to the 440BX motherboard... I may be a newb, but I can see when off-topicness is starting to happen. 😉

I'm happy to say I got Redguard to work tonight. Any luck with the Voodoo 3 mobo?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Yes, Origin's games is always my biggest headache too. Even Wing Commander 2 is a PITA when being ran on Pentium 100. What is the best way to slow down Origin's games, then? Is there anything out there better than Moslo? 😢

I believe there was an old thread that Stiletto wrote on VOGONS years ago, a round-up of various slowdown utilities. This was mirrored here: (http://www.tawmis.com/collector/Utilities/Slo … nUtilities.html).

Kreshna, w.r.t. Origin's Wing Commander 1 & 2 games, I've read a webpage that suggest disabling the Pentium 100's L2 cache? Apparently this guy says doing so made his P 200 behave like a 286, and this foregoes the need to use Mo'Slo.

Well, I stand corrected. Haven't tried disabling a CPU L2 cache. Neat idea!

I did change that setting once in the BIOS to see what it would do. I remember waiting an hour for Win 95 to boot.

😀

If only it could be done in a batch file!