In my experience the difference between 128kb and 256kb of L2 cache is minimal and not really noticable.
You are generally better off with smaller, faster cache (lower wait states etc) then bigger, slower cache.

And yes that 256MB of RAM is definitely going to give a bigger performance hit on a board that only has cachable area of 64MB, I'd be more worried about that than only having 128kb of cache. Try and track down some old 64MB or 32MB modules.

64MB modules are a lot less common then 32MB modules, and you'll need 2 modules for a Pentium board (unless it's one of those very early VIA boards that support 32bit memory bus). Might as well get 4x16MB as those seem to be quite easy to find.
At least the 430HX can usually be "tagged" so it caches more then 64MB

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question directly. I've seen Socket 7 boards (not talking about the newer Super 7 boards) with 512kb, 256kb and even with 0kb.
You "could" get around the cacheable area limit by installing one of the L2 cache CPU's (for lack of a better name for the 3 Socket 7 CPU's that have L2 cache and thus get around the cacheable area limit) but that's quite problematic in the older (and usually AT) Socket 7 boards.

Edit: Otoh, why would they even made 512kb boards if it made no difference compared to 256kb boards? 😉

Tetrium wrote:

64MB modules are a lot less common then 32MB modules, and you'll need 2 modules for a Pentium board (unless it's one of those ve […]
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64MB modules are a lot less common then 32MB modules, and you'll need 2 modules for a Pentium board (unless it's one of those very early VIA boards that support 32bit memory bus). Might as well get 4x16MB as those seem to be quite easy to find.
At least the 430HX can usually be "tagged" so it caches more then 64MB

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question directly. I've seen Socket 7 boards (not talking about the newer Super 7 boards) with 512kb, 256kb and even with 0kb.
You "could" get around the cacheable area limit by installing one of the L2 cache CPU's (for lack of a better name for the 3 Socket 7 CPU's that have L2 cache and thus get around the cacheable area limit) but that's quite problematic in the older (and usually AT) Socket 7 boards.

Edit: Otoh, why would they even made 512kb boards if it made no difference compared to 256kb boards? 😉

That last 5 percent I guess 😀. More is always better, just not always quantifiably better.

After some more digging, I read that boards with cache on a stick (COAST) module slots could often be upgraded with a module that contained both an extra 256kb of pipelined burst memory and a tag ram chip (so added to the tag chip that the motherboard already has, you've got two 8x8 tag ram chips and the system can then address 512mb of ram).

Then I got lucky and found a 430HX board that fits that very description and comes with a COAST module installed on it that appears to have a tag ram chip (it's definitely not a cache chip, so it's got to be a tag chip). Dallas RTC though so I bought two of them (and at around 28 bucks shipped I think I did pretty well, I'd have spent 10-20 on ram).

Now I have to hope my case can accept a baby AT motherboard or I'm going to have to get creative with mounting. The ATX to AT power supply adapter I needed was cheap enough though, plus now I get a turbo button 😀.

Well, the two boards came, and I'm pleasantly surprised. Sockets on the Dallas RTC chips, so if I kill one fixing it, I can replace it rather than toss the whole board! I have since seen pictures of an ECS 430VX board where they go all out and put sexy white sockets for the bios and RTC on the board, but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

And I didn't look up the exact part number, but the tag ram chip on the board has a -15 on it, and it's fairly large. I think it's 15 bits. Even if it isn't, the coast modules have what look like tag ram on them as well. I should be good to go for >64mb of ram. Looking at what I've got, I'm going for 160MB of ram rather than the 256 I originally planned for so I have a spare system (using all 256 in a production box means no extra ram on the shelf).

I also have access to a 430HX board that only has an 8 bit tag ram module on it. I think I should do some comparison benchmarks between cached and uncached, and between 512kb and 256kb cached (the other board has a non-removable 512). It might take me a while to get to that though.

And this was my final retro system. I've got my PIII box, and now my P1 box. Not sure what to do now other than play with some of the stuff I've had on the shelf for years now. [/i]

SavantStrike wrote:

but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

Tetrium wrote:

SavantStrike wrote:

but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

Who makes that 486 board?

Gigabyte was famous for cool colors before everyone else did it. MSI had awesome red motherboards for a while too until they went to black. Gigabyte has also gone to black now in some cases 🙁. I loved their blue stuff.

I think it's time that manufacturers started making gold and green motherboards again in high end configurations, but with crazy colors on the PCIE slots, etc. At the very least, how about less black motherboards.

SavantStrike wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

SavantStrike wrote:

but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

Who makes that 486 board?

Iirc it was an Acer/AOpen board. Can't remember the model from top of my head, sorry

Edit:It's the one in the middle: http://s941.photobucket.com/albums/ad254/inte … nt=DSC00201.jpg

Tetrium wrote:

SavantStrike wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

Who makes that 486 board?

Iirc it was an Acer/AOpen board. Can't remember the model from top of my head, sorry

Edit:It's the one in the middle: http://s941.photobucket.com/albums/ad254/inte … nt=DSC00201.jpg

Forget that board. Top left. PCI, ISA, and VLB. Va va voom!

Also, tests have gone quite well on the ECS board. I could only find a partial manual online, but what I got gave me settings for FSB, multiplier, cache, and voltage (so everything important). I got PS2 mouse port information somewhere else and a quick perusal at other literature about onboard USB ports gave me a rough idea of what I needed to do. Volt meter to the rescue! Now I've figured out which pin to snip (it had 10 pins and most USB headers use 9 pins) and had success. Heh, it even has an onboard fan header (again, volt meter to the rescue).

I noticed it has a really nice bios for the time. I can boot from SCSI if I want (but no SCSI) and cacheable memory limit is 512mb with correct settings (woohoo)! This is one smokin hot Pentium motherboard. It really deserves a 233mmx chip, but I'm not dumping any more money into retro for the time being. Plus, those ceramic chips from Intel were awesome. The last of an era and all that.

SavantStrike wrote:

Forget that board. Top left. PCI, ISA, and VLB. Va va voom!

Thats the ASUS SP3 that went KABOOM! on me 🙁

Tetrium wrote:

SavantStrike wrote:

but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

White ISA slots? Are you sure those weren't EISA?

I have an ECS socket 7 board, with white ISA slots also.

sliderider wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

SavantStrike wrote:

but mine only has the sexy white ISA slots (seriously, though, they're hot looking). I've never seen them in any color other than black. No one really pays attention to the bios chips any ways so the green and white color scheme is still valid 😀.

I love seeing these connectors having a different color! (provided not everyone starts doing it).
I've got an old 486 PCI board laying around with white ISA slots, a s370 board with a black socket, a GigaByte s370 with a blue socket and another GigaByte Socket A which was greenish iirc, including the AGP port 😁

White ISA slots? Are you sure those weren't EISA?

It would be difficult to tell wouldn't it? The connector is nearly the same, and 16 bit ISA cards will fit in EISA slots.

I've not been able to piece together what the difference is other than it's bad news to drop an EISA card in a 16 bit ISA slot.

I don't think they are though, I think it's just the ECS color scheme.