How does this work with Windows 98 games? Because modern cards aren't Windows 98 compatible.

Have you used Workstation?

No that's why I'm asking. If the hardware is passed through, how are can you install a Windows 98 driver on, let's say, a GTX 660 for example?

It does it through software emulation. Just like DosBox for example. It doesn't see what video card is in the system. Only what it emulates. It's is a bit flakey sometimes, but works. Starting with win 2000 and above emulation is done with VT-x and uses hardware emulation. Try downloading the Workstation trial and see for yourself. As a matter of fact all my web browsing and downloading is done in a VM. If I over abuse it I just revert to the last snapshot.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

No that's why I'm asking. If the hardware is passed through, how are can you install a Windows 98 driver on, let's say, a GTX 660 for example?

It's not passed through. It's a virtual graphics card 😀

If it were pass-through, you wouldn't be able to move the VM to another machine with different hardware and have it work 100% the same (which is one of VMware's selling points.)

I use VMware for work actually, which means modern OSes only, but I did setup a 98SE VM to run Discworld 2 in the past. It ran it perfectly.

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

Probably because most games are too old or too new for VMWare. Most games either run OK-ish on modern systems, or they run fine in DOSBox.

Discworld 2 is pretty much the only game I ever had to run in vmware. I've heard that a Command&Conquer game (don't know with one) was another one that needed vmware.

And those two games are just about all I'm aware of where vmware is needed 😜

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

Because VMware Workstation is quite expensive and there are many free alternatives.

GL1zdA wrote:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

Because VMware Workstation is quite expensive and there are many free alternatives.

And they also run Windows 98 games? I never seen a thread about this...

Note that "VMware Workstation Player" is freeware, and it uses the same virtualization engine as workstation.

With Workstation you can stretch the screen to fill your native resolution. Otherwise you are stuck with a centered screen with player. Makes it more enjoyable.

GL1zdA wrote:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

Because VMware Workstation is quite expensive and there are many free alternatives.

Virtual PC 2007 has good Win 98 support. On par with Workstation's hardware. You can extract the additions and use them on Virtual PC for Win 7. Or uninstall Virtual PC for Win 7 and install 2007. For Win 8.1 you have turn off compatibility mode to get it to install.

I don't know about Workstation, although I have no reason to believe that it's any different, but VMWare Player doesn't support even DDraw acceleration under Win 9x. Calling the video driver flawless is something of an exaggeration.

I've always thought that VMWare have been missing an opportunity to make some quick cash: offer a cheap virtualization solution based off their existing codebase, but tuned for use with old games (fullscreen scaling options, changing host resolution, etc), with improved Win 9x video support, and stripped of features that gamers won't need.

Silanda wrote:

I've always thought that VMWare have been missing an opportunity to make some quick cash: offer a cheap virtualization solution based off their existing codebase, but tuned for use with old games (fullscreen scaling options, changing host resolution, etc), with improved Win 9x video support, and stripped of features that gamers won't need.

Different type of end user, support would be that much more of a nightmare 😁

"HEY MY WIN98 INSTALL DON'T WORK YOU GUYZ"

Just ask PCem forums! 😁

Stiletto wrote:

Just ask PCem forums! 😁

Sometimes I feel like i'm the only person on there who even thinks about running a videogame in PCem, stuck in a sea of "windows beta dont work" 🙁

Ive not run vmware workstation in years, been long since using virtualbox. I've run a subset of games on w98, 2k, xp just fine inside virtual box.

it depends what api's the games hit since you dont have a full blown nvidia driver/ati driver you just have the virtual one.

BloodyCactus wrote:

it depends what api's the games hit since you dont have a full blown nvidia driver/ati driver you just have the virtual one.

The virtual driver is surprisingly compatible though. VMware was basically forced to provide a good driver, since people demanded that VMware should run modern desktops. Windows Aero being the prime example, which needs Direct X 3D acceleration.

As a result, the vmware "svga" driver isn't really svga anymore, and as a side effect it's now much more compatible with games too.

I'll admit that VMWare was the first "real" attempt to get dos/windows games to work years ago. But the purpose of that software (and VmWare Player) is not to emulate a DOS machine but to emulate Windows on Windows (or Windows on another OS) for virtualization. So as such it's more useful to emulate Windows on Windows (if you have VT-x) and if you have a iGPU and a dedicated GPU, you can virtualize the GPU too.

Microsoft's Virtual PC is really a nerfed product, it runs the emulated Windows inside a remote desktop session, so it's absolutely useless for games. But you can migrate the Virtual PC XP image to VMWare Workstion/Player with some trivial effort and thus you have a legitimate license (I have Win7 Ultimate, or did, now it's Win 10 Pro) and don't need to worry about getting XP and activating it.

But Win95/98 has always been something of a gamble to get to work on any emulation environment, be it DosBox, PCEM, VirtualBox, VMWare, Parallels, etc. You essentially have two kinds of emulation targets out there, "Virtualization" targets where emulating servers is the goal (eg VMWare, Xen, Virtualbox) and thus they have very high overhead with the focus on performance of the guest OS at the expense of the host OS. Then you have "accurate hardware emulation" targets which is what PCem, and MAME/MESS try to do. Then you have DosBox which aims directly at DOS games, and hence the refrain "Windows 9x is NOT officially supported under DOSBox"

Also the problem Virtualbox and VMware has is that relative mouse input is perpetually broken, and is likely to never be fixed. This is why you don't play 3D games inside a VM. I've tried several games this way before, and what you get is "mouse moves in 45 degree angles only", and you end up having to pass your real USB joystick to the client OS, which only works if the joystick is of the vintage the OS expects (DirectInput for DirectX8/9 (2001), XInput for later.) The games that work the best are those that were originally operational in windowed mode. Anything that went full screen tends to have the same relative mouse problem.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

GL1zdA wrote:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Thanks excellent, I wonder why this doesn't come up more often on VOGONS.

Because VMware Workstation is quite expensive and there are many free alternatives.

And they also run Windows 98 games? I never seen a thread about this...

251,95 EUR for a license just to run Windows 98?