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VME Broken on AMD Ryzen

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Reply 20 of 31, by Jo22

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Azarien wrote:

If there is an alternate code path at all.. they could have thought: so our system requires Pentium "or higher", and we use VME because it's cool, and we don't even check cpuid for it, but that's okay, it's not that it is ever going away...

True, good point.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 21 of 31, by spiroyster

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Azarien wrote:

I'm planning to buy a new machine and I think it'll be Ryzen, but I won't buy it unless I know this issue is fixed.

Likewise.

That's the good thing about AMD, consistency, why break the habit of a life time by making something that works out of the box. No doubt it will be fixed, and it would still be cheaper than Intel, with enough all round performance... but the lower price point is very much justified given the curse of AMD.

And the name 'ThreadRipper' .... eww... please, that is going to sound and look sooooo dated very soon. Lets hope it 'rips' them in a good way o.0

Reply 22 of 31, by Azarien

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spiroyster wrote:

And the name 'ThreadRipper' .... eww... please, that is going to sound and look sooooo dated very soon. Lets hope it 'rips' them in a good way o.0

At first I thought it's ThreadReaper 😉

Reply 23 of 31, by Jo22

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VirtualBox 5.1.24 (released 2017-07-18)
"VMM: mask the VME CPUID capability on AMD Ryzen processors for now to make certain guests works, for example Windows XP"

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 26 of 31, by Jo22

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Hi again! Is the VME bug finally fixed?
I've found contradicting information. Wikipedia says it got fixed with Ryzen 2000, other sources say Ryzen 3000..

Also an user in a Ryzen 3700 focused thread at Reddit said:
[..]
The only showstopper is if you want to run Windows 98 in a VM.
The VME bug has returned and causes crashes.
There's a workaround if you can get it installed, but you won't be able to install Win 98 in VMWare.
I have no idea if the latest AGESA has improved the situation.

AFAIK running a modern OS as a Virtual Machine is fine.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/hgum4t/ … handle_virtual/

So how's the status? Became VME functional again?
Or is that same old "just disable that VME-capability bit in your VM software" workaround still needed?

The PDF that's linked to at Wikipedia is funny, too.
It says "no fix planned".

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 27 of 31, by DosFreak

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Still broke on 5950x. I'm hoping vmware will wake up and bring back dynrec due to the m1 cpu but I'm not holding my breath.

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Reply 28 of 31, by Jo22

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Thank you for the feedback! 👍
Maybe it gets better in the next generation (hopefully).

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 29 of 31, by Silanda

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-05-26, 08:36:
Hi again! Is the VME bug finally fixed? I've found contradicting information. Wikipedia says it got fixed with Ryzen 2000, other […]
Show full quote

Hi again! Is the VME bug finally fixed?
I've found contradicting information. Wikipedia says it got fixed with Ryzen 2000, other sources say Ryzen 3000..

Also an user in a Ryzen 3700 focused thread at Reddit said:
[..]
The only showstopper is if you want to run Windows 98 in a VM.
The VME bug has returned and causes crashes.
There's a workaround if you can get it installed, but you won't be able to install Win 98 in VMWare.
I have no idea if the latest AGESA has improved the situation.

AFAIK running a modern OS as a Virtual Machine is fine.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/hgum4t/ … handle_virtual/

So how's the status? Became VME functional again?
Or is that same old "just disable that VME-capability bit in your VM software" workaround still needed?

I thought that quote sounded familar; I'm that user. It's never been fixed on Zen 2, and Zen 3's affected as well? Sort it out AMD!

FWIW, Windows ME can be installed on VMWare Player while Win98 can't. It still has problems, but it handles crashes during installation more gracefully. IIRC it handles crashes more gracefully during operation too.

Reply 31 of 31, by kjliew

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Probably it wasn't related to VME at all for Win98 VM issues with hardware virtualization on Ryzen CPU. Other than Win98, WinME/2K/XP all run perfectly with hardware virtualization on Ryzen CPUs. From the symptom and error message from Win98 VM, it seems like DLL page mapping issues and that points to the Win98 TLB invalidation bug, which unfortunately is a flaw in Win98 MMU implementation that violates x86 CPU specification, specifically on AMD CPUs. The issue could have been amplified when CPUs go faster, bigger OOO ROB and loosen memory load/store order to achieve high performance computing.

Yes, Intel CPUs work great for Win98 VM with hardware virtualization ( ... however not for their own HAXM ... 🤣). It is a fact that Intel would manage x86 CPU quirks for legacy software much better than AMD. Intel was also traditionally more conservative with advanced CPU architecture compared to their x86 clone competitors simply because they had manufacturing prowess to achieve performance without advanced architecture.