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PCem / 86box and MT-32 / Fluidsynth issues

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First post, by Saitama

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Hi all. Sorry if this has been answered before but I've looked all over without any success.

I setup a socket 7 machine with Windows 98SE on both Pcem and 86box (via Winbox) with AWE 32 sound but can't seem to get the MT-32 emulation to work properly.

The most success I've had so far is with the 86box install. I tried both the MT-32 and Fluidsynth options in midi out which worked perfectly for Flashback. However, in games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D, no matter what I try, the music output is always the same. The default sound blaster music.

What am I doing wrong? Is there an additional step required for these games?

Reply 2 of 17, by feda

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Saitama wrote on 2023-02-17, 22:03:

However, in games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D, no matter what I try, the music output is always the same. The default sound blaster music.

What am I doing wrong? Is there an additional step required for these games?

Did you select General MIDI in the setup program?

Reply 3 of 17, by Saitama

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Pickle wrote on 2023-02-18, 00:32:

midi support in pcem is one thing ive also struggled with. If im going to emulate i use dosbox ece with fluidsynth and mt32.
what is your host os your running on?

Yes I've had no issues using Dosbox via Retroarch. It even allows on the fly changing from MT-32 to Fluidsynth (and sound fonts) if not mistaken.

But I really wanted to get it done via Pcem/86Box.

Don't get why Flashback worked immediately. Maybe it's coz Flashback had a specific option in settings that allowed you to choose MT-32 via midi out from sound card?

Host OS is Windows 11.

feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 01:07:

Did you select General MIDI in the setup program?

Yes. I picked General Midi. It still sounded exactly like how it does when I pick Sound Blaster.

And of course it was confirmed not working as the Munt display wasn't showing any activity (it was with Flashback).

I'm wondering if it has to do with not being in true Dos Mode? But Flashback worked without it.

Reply 5 of 17, by Saitama

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Pickle wrote on 2023-02-18, 06:27:

maybe try softmpu to get intelligent mode support

I have softmpu running on my pcem install. Munt detects it as well. However same issue.

Just tried running Flashback on my pcem install now and no MT-32 sound. In fact no music at all when choosing MT-32 option. So 86box works better in this regard.

I don't get it.

Gonna try and get it to work from pure dos.

Reply 7 of 17, by feda

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To get Munt to work with Pcem W98, I had to select Mt-32 synth emulator as the MIDI out device and then SB16 MIDI out as the MIDI output in Windows.

Last edited by feda on 2023-02-18, 15:39. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 8 of 17, by Saitama

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feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 14:32:

To get Munt to work with Pcem W98, I had to select Mt-32 synth emulator as then MIDI out device and then SB16 MIDI out as the MIDI output in Windows.

Interesting. Will try this. Thanks!

Reply 9 of 17, by Gmlb256

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feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 14:32:

To get Munt to work with Pcem W98, I had to select Mt-32 synth emulator as the MIDI out device and then SB16 MIDI out as the MIDI output in Windows.

This does nothing for DOS programs within Windows as the MIDI mapper doesn't magically emulate the MPU-401 interface for the selected MIDI device. MPU-401 support depends on the sound card driver, and it is independent from the Multimedia Control Panel settings.

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Reply 10 of 17, by feda

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-18, 15:58:
feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 14:32:

To get Munt to work with Pcem W98, I had to select Mt-32 synth emulator as the MIDI out device and then SB16 MIDI out as the MIDI output in Windows.

This does nothing for DOS programs within Windows as the MIDI mapper doesn't magically emulate the MPU-401 interface for the selected MIDI device. MPU-401 support depends on the sound card driver, and it is independent from the Multimedia Control Panel settings.

Are you saying the bolded part is unnecessary?
In any case, these settings do work correctly with Munt. With the requisite drivers installed, of course. Tested in several DOS games within Windows.

Reply 11 of 17, by Gmlb256

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feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 18:29:

Are you saying the bolded part is unnecessary?

Yes, it only works with Windows programs. Try selecting a different MIDI device in Multimedia Control Panel and you will see that DOS programs with using the "General MIDI" or "MT-32" option are unaffected.

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Reply 12 of 17, by Saitama

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-18, 18:33:
feda wrote on 2023-02-18, 18:29:

Are you saying the bolded part is unnecessary?

Yes, it only works with Windows programs. Try selecting a different MIDI device in Multimedia Control Panel and you will see that DOS programs with using the "General MIDI" or "MT-32" option are unaffected.

I can confirm this is correct. Changing the setting in windows makes no difference to dos games.

I have now completed my setup with everything running perfectly with both 86box and pcemu. Both needed windows to be restarted in dos mode to run properly.

The AWE32 drivers needed to be installed (for dos) and all variables set. With 86box, nothing further was needed apart from picking the midi out device within the app settings. Softmpu wasn't needed at all.

For pcemu, flashback didn't work without softmpu.

I even got the emulated Gravis Ultrasound running which was brilliant.

If anyone needs help setting up something similar, give me a shout.

Reply 14 of 17, by Saitama

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Pickle wrote on 2023-02-18, 21:27:

it didnt click right away your were using munt inside the emulation, are you doing the same with fluidsynth?

Do you mean with 86box?

Yes, I use the internal munt option. And same with Fluidsynth. Tried both.

Gonna try Sound Canvas VA next.

Reply 16 of 17, by Saitama

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Pickle wrote on 2023-02-19, 14:26:

i meant with pcem mainly, but it just hasnt crossed my mind to install either inside an emulated windows 98 install.

Sorry my bad. Misunderstood.

No am not running it inside the emulated OS. Either one.

I wonder if that's even an option.

Reply 17 of 17, by rico001

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Saitama wrote on 2023-02-19, 16:54:
Sorry my bad. Misunderstood. […]
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Pickle wrote on 2023-02-19, 14:26:

i meant with pcem mainly, but it just hasnt crossed my mind to install either inside an emulated windows 98 install.

Sorry my bad. Misunderstood.

No am not running it inside the emulated OS. Either one.

I wonder if that's even an option.

Was trying this out in past may help some people, creates a virtual device I think: LoopBE1 https://www.nerds.de/index.html
also used Timidity++ in past , https://timidity.sourceforge.net/, the reviews contain config notes
also for fluidsynth, midi2audio is a frontend written in the python programing language, wasn't able to use.

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