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First post, by red-ray

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I have two Pentium 4 systems, a Gigabyte 8IPE775P + Pentium 4 660 (Prescott 2M) @ 3.60GHz and a MSI MS-6742 (865P Neo) + Pentium 4 (Northwood) @ 2.80GHz and in both cases NT4 only sees one CPU, but W2K and later see two. Looking further I spotted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOvO2Pm8YJ4 and again NT4 only sees one CPU.

Does NT4 ever see both CPUs and if so for which motherboard?

Looking at the MPS 1.4 information both my systems only report one CPU which is why I guess NT4 only comes up with one CPU so if any systems have both CPUs I would be interested to know what their MPS tables report.

Last edited by red-ray on 2023-01-29, 14:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 22, by DosFreak

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Which HAL is being used?
Keep in mind that that even Windows 2000 doesn't support hyperthreading it just sees physical processors and sees the hyperthreaded ones as such.

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Reply 2 of 22, by H3nrik V!

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DosFreak wrote on 2023-01-29, 13:23:

Which HAL is being used?
Keep in mind that that even Windows 2000 doesn't support hyperthreading it just sees physical processors and sees the hyperthreaded ones as such.

Are you suggesting running uptomp command? It's pretty crucial to do a backup first, as there is no way of going back, and if NT still doesn't recognize HT as 2 CPUs, it won't ever boot again

If it's dual it's kind of cool ... 😎

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Reply 3 of 22, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote on 2023-01-29, 13:23:

Which HAL is being used?

I have no idea what HAL you need to use to make NT4 use both CPUs as I have only ever seen one. I have HALMPS and MPS 1.4 on both my systems.

With 2003 when I changed from HALMACPI to HALMPS the number of CPUs dropped from two to one so I expect you need to use ACPI to see both CPUs.

AFAIK there is no ACPI HAL for NT4 and https://www.geoffchappell.com/studies/windows … story/index.htm does not list one.

Last edited by red-ray on 2023-01-29, 13:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 22, by Gmlb256

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HT aware scheduler support on Windows first appeared on XP.

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Reply 5 of 22, by DosFreak

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Yeah sounds about right that hyperthreading requires ACPI. I'm thinking OpenNT (updated NT4 based on leaked source code) never provided ACPI either.
You can see if bearwindows had any luck:
https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/
https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/ntiinst.htm

Last edited by DosFreak on 2023-01-29, 14:20. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 6 of 22, by Horun

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Makes sense since the first HT cpu was the Xenon then came the P4 with HT in about 2002 a year after XP was released. My dual P5-200 does see two cpu's under NT4 workstation but they are true cpus' not HT....

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 7 of 22, by Azarien

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DosFreak wrote on 2023-01-29, 14:16:

Yeah sounds about right that hyperthreading requires ACPI.

But this is for HT only, and a real dual-core CPU would work, right?

My NT4 virtual machine (VMware Workstation 17 Player) recognizes 2 (but not 4) CPUs when running on Celeron J1900, which is a quad-core with no HT.
I haven't tried to run NT4 anywhere else yet – but (save for driver issues) can I expect it to recognize 2 CPUs on very same J1900 bare metal, or is it some VMware magic that makes it work?

Reply 8 of 22, by red-ray

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Azarien wrote on 2023-01-29, 23:31:

My NT4 virtual machine (VMware Workstation 17 Player) recognizes 2 (but not 4) CPUs

By default NT4 Workstation is limited to 2 CPUs, what happens with NT4 Server? There are also patches to circumvent the 2 CPU limit, but I have never used them.

How many CPUs does the MPS 1.4 table report?

Reply 9 of 22, by Azarien

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red-ray wrote on 2023-01-29, 23:56:
Azarien wrote on 2023-01-29, 23:31:

My NT4 virtual machine (VMware Workstation 17 Player) recognizes 2 (but not 4) CPUs

By default NT4 Workstation is limited to 2 CPUs, what happens with NT4 Server? There are also patches to circumvent the 2 CPU limit, but I have never used them.
How many CPUs does the MPS 1.4 table report?

Haven't tried Server yet. Where can I check that MPS table?

Reply 11 of 22, by Azarien

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It seems that it can see 4 cores, and only 2 work because NT4 Workstation supports only 2.

But it's interesting that the CPU is recognized as J2670 which doesn't even seem to exist? It's J1900 in reality.

The attachment mps.png is no longer available

Reply 12 of 22, by red-ray

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Azarien wrote on 2023-01-30, 01:33:

But it's interesting that the CPU is recognized as J2670 which doesn't even seem to exist? It's J1900 in reality.

Thank you for mentioning this and I would like to try and adjust it, but I need more information. Please do Menu->File->Save Local and post the generated .TXT + .DMI files. The .DMI is a save of the SMBIOS which may also enable me to fix the decode issue.

I assume you are using a VM and wonder if this is why SIV reports 4 physical chips rather than 1 + 3 cores. It would be helpful to also get the two SIV save files from the system that hosts the VM.

Reply 13 of 22, by red-ray

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Azarien wrote on 2023-01-30, 01:33:

It seems that it can see 4 cores, and only 2 work because NT4 Workstation supports only 2.

I felt I would try NT V4.00 Server on a Quad Core system, but when I booted the install CD it got half way through loading then the system did a spontaneous reboot 🙁

I then tried copying the NT V4.00 SP6 Workstation installation from my MSI MS-6742 (865P Neo) system and that booted, but as expected only two CPUs showed up.

Next I copied NT V4.00 SP6 Terminal Sever installation from my Intel MS440GX, that started boot with four CPUs, but then failed as its expecting a SCSI rather than SATA disk. The good news if that it detected 4 CPUs 😀

Reply 14 of 22, by red-ray

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I don't like to be beaten so I installed NT 4 Terminal Server on my MSI MS-6742 (865P Neo) then copied the installation across the network!

file.php?id=156296

I was initially surprised how hot the CPUs were, but then realised it's down to them running at full speed all time time.

In an ideal world now I need to find an NT4 driver for the Marvell Yukon 88E8056 PCIe Gigabit Ethernet Controller rather than use a DEC DE500B and wonder do any PCIe graphics cards have NT4 drivers 😀

Reply 15 of 22, by DosFreak

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Yeah I remember complaints about hyperthreading on Windows 2000 causing the processors to heat up. I want to say Blackwingcat did something for that on Windows 2000 (as well as increasing performance) .
https://msfn.org/board/topic/59364-athlon64-x … ndows-2000-pro/

My Quadro FX 1300 works fine on NT4. 😀

NVIDIA = "NVIDIA"
NVIDIA_NV11.DEV_0110.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400"
NVIDIA_NV11.DEV_0111.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200"
NVIDIA_NV11.DEV_0113.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro2 MXR/EX"
NVIDIA_CR11.DEV_01A0.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce2 Integrated GPU"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_0170.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 460"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_0171.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_0172.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_0173.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440-SE"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_0178.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 550 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV17.DEV_017A.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro NVS"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_0181.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_0182.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_0185.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 4000"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_0188.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 580 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_018A.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro NVS with AGP8X"
NVIDIA_NV18.DEV_018B.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL"
NVIDIA_CR17.DEV_01F0.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU"
NVIDIA_NV20.DEV_0200.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce3"
NVIDIA_NV20.DEV_0201.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200"
NVIDIA_NV20.DEV_0202.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500"
NVIDIA_NV20.DEV_0203.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro DCC"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0250.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0251.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0253.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0258.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 900 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0259.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 750 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_025B.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 700 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0280.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800"
NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0281.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X"
NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0282.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE"
NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0288.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0289.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 780 XGL"
NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0301.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0302.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800"
NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0308.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000"
NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0309.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000"
NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0311.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0312.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600"
NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0314.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600XT"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_0321.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_0322.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_0323.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200LE"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_0326.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_0327.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5100"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_032A.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro NVS 280 PCI"
NVIDIA_NV34.DEV_032B.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 500/FX 600"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0330.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0331.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0332.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900XT"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0333.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0334.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900ZT"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0338.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000"
NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_033F.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 700"
NVIDIA_NV36.DEV_0341.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV36.DEV_0342.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700"
NVIDIA_NV36.DEV_0343.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE"
NVIDIA_NV36.DEV_0344.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700VE"
NVIDIA_NV36.DEV_034E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1100"
NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0040.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra"
NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0041.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0042.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_004E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000"
NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C1.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C2.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00CD.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI"
NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00CE.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0140.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0141.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0142.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0145.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6610 XL"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 540"
NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014F.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6200"
NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0162.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6200SE TurboCache(TM)"
NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0165.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285"
NVIDIA_G70.DEV_0091.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX"
NVIDIA_NV48.DEV_0211.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
NVIDIA_NV48.DEV_0212.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
NVIDIA_NV48.DEV_0215.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F1.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F2.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F3.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6200"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F8.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 3400/4400"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00F9.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Series GPU"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00FA.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5750"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00FB.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5900"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00FC.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5300"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00FD.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro PCI-E Series"
NVIDIA_BR02.DEV_00FE.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300"

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Reply 16 of 22, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote on 2023-01-31, 21:55:

My Quadro FX 1300 works fine on NT4. 😀

Thank you for the post, but it would be far more helpful to specify the driver version you use rather than a contents of a .INF file from an unspecified driver.

I tried my Quadro FX 1300 with 77.72_winnt4_english.exe and it did not work and then I tried my GeForce 660 GT then the system did a spontaneous reboot 🙁

Reply 18 of 22, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote on 2023-01-31, 23:28:

Try 71.84

Another spontaneous reboot 🙁

Thus far no PCIe card has worked and I am wondering if I need to install a Windows NT4 patch as I just tried a Matrox P650 with nt4_105_00_107.exe and that also does not play nicely