Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 08:28:

Only the 9700 and 9800 series cards had heating issues, this was due to the stupid metal shim ATI added to the edge of the GPU die for these models,

Everything is fine there with the pairing of die and cooler.
There is exactly one problem - the lack of temperature monitoring.
Because of this, users did not raise their fuss about overheating, and all manufacturers installed a frankly insufficient cooler.
The card consumes over 50 W, so the manufacturers were forced to put a normal turbine for XT on the new revision of the board with LM63.

There is also a 9800Pro on a 9800XT board, but without turbine fan.
Whether it has temperature monitoring - I do not know.
https://archive.techarp.com/article/ATI/Radeo … d/256mb_new.jpg

PS. I have a X600 Pro GDDR2 from Gigabyte - GV-RX60P256DP with passive cooling.

Everything seemed to be great. Until it turned out that it has a place for LM63, which was successfully transplanted from a dead 9600XT.
60 degrees at rest, 70+ under load.
I would not have bought such a card at the time.

shevalier wrote on 2023-06-29, 09:41:

Everything is fine there with the pairing of die and cooler. There is exactly one problem - the lack of temperature monitoring. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 08:28:

Only the 9700 and 9800 series cards had heating issues, this was due to the stupid metal shim ATI added to the edge of the GPU die for these models,

Everything is fine there with the pairing of die and cooler.
There is exactly one problem - the lack of temperature monitoring.
Because of this, users did not raise their fuss about overheating, and all manufacturers installed a frankly insufficient cooler.
The card consumes over 50 W, so the manufacturers were forced to put a normal turbine for XT on the new revision of the board with LM63.

There is also a 9800Pro on a 9800XT board, but without turbine fan.
Whether she has temperature monitoring - I do not know.
https://archive.techarp.com/article/ATI/Radeo … d/256mb_new.jpg

The metal shim around the GPU die expanding faster under heat load and with repeated heating/cooling cycles separating from the die and lifting the cooler off the GPU die is the cause of the problem. Monitoring may have helped identify the overheating but it took a revision by ATI for later model 9800 cards to mostly fix the problem, the revision also included a better/bigger cooler with the retention brace. (Some 9700 series cards also got this revision and new cooler) IIRC the 9800 also has a thinner shim around the GPU die than the one on the 9700 Pro.

ATI knew about the problem back in the day because a large number of people were reporting the problem including a number of tech news groups so it wasn't that users were not making a fuss, they certainly did.

As for other manufacturers not using bigger coolers initially, I guess they take their guidance from ATI who obviously got it wrong.

IIRC any 9800/9600XT that uses the LM63 chip should be able to monitor temps but there was no 9700 Pro that could do this.

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 10:10:

The metal shim around the GPU die expanding faster under heat load and with repeated heating/cooling cycles separating from the […]
Show full quote

shevalier wrote on 2023-06-29, 09:41:

Everything is fine there with the pairing of die and cooler. There is exactly one problem - the lack of temperature monitoring. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 08:28:

Only the 9700 and 9800 series cards had heating issues, this was due to the stupid metal shim ATI added to the edge of the GPU die for these models,

Everything is fine there with the pairing of die and cooler.
There is exactly one problem - the lack of temperature monitoring.
Because of this, users did not raise their fuss about overheating, and all manufacturers installed a frankly insufficient cooler.
The card consumes over 50 W, so the manufacturers were forced to put a normal turbine for XT on the new revision of the board with LM63.

There is also a 9800Pro on a 9800XT board, but without turbine fan.
Whether she has temperature monitoring - I do not know.
https://archive.techarp.com/article/ATI/Radeo … d/256mb_new.jpg

The metal shim around the GPU die expanding faster under heat load and with repeated heating/cooling cycles separating from the die and lifting the cooler off the GPU die is the cause of the problem. Monitoring may have helped identify the overheating but it took a revision by ATI for later model 9800 cards to mostly fix the problem, the revision also included a better/bigger cooler with the retention brace. (Some 9700 series cards also got this revision and new cooler) IIRC the 9800 also has a thinner shim around the GPU die than the one on the 9700 Pro.

ATI knew about the problem back in the day because a large number of people were reporting the problem including a number of tech news groups so it wasn't that users were not making a fuss, they certainly did.

As for other manufacturers not using bigger coolers initially, I guess they take their guidance from ATI who obviously got it wrong.

IIRC any 9800/9600XT that uses the LM63 chip should be able to monitor temps but there was no 9700 Pro that could do this.

Some coolers were specifically designed to circumvent this issue. Most haven't : they have a "flat" back.
I moded my 9700 Pro with a thin piece of metal between the die and the cooler.
Just a simple piece of metal, cut with an angle grinder and super polished with fine grain sandpaper. Thermal grease on both sides + the original cooler on the top.
I have four 9700Pro and just one working. I really don't want to damage it.

I confirm for the temperature readings. I can't read them on mine. GPU-Z only reports frequencies

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 10:10:

I guess they take their guidance from ATI who obviously got it wrong.

Сost-effective, that's enough 🙁

The metal shim around the GPU die expanding faster under heat load and with repeated heating/cooling cycles separating from the die and lifting the cooler off the GPU die is the cause of the problem.
I didn't notice, there's quite a big clearance, I think.
But the stock Intel cooler from P3 and 2 self-tapping screws turned out to be much better.

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-29, 10:10:

but there was no 9700 Pro that could do this.

acl wrote on 2023-06-29, 10:24:

I confirm for the temperature readings. I can't read them on mine. GPU-Z only reports frequencies

The older design 9800 pro has traces on the PCB to adjust the fan speed. Apparently, this is some kind of primitive analog circuit on an operational amplifier.
But given the heating with the stock cooler, it was abandoned because of the senselessness.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-06-26, 15:57:

Which system should I choose for my field of use?

I hid in the box (finally almost perfect) rig #1 and use more modern hardware for Dungeon Keeper 2.
Turion S754 2.2GHz + 2GB DDR440 + X600Pro PCI-e + Diamond Monster MX300 (for A3D sound) .
All this on nVidia Crash51 chipset under Windows 2000 on SSD with native SATA2 .

And I like it much more than the pretentious rigs on P3.

Thanks for the further info about the potential over heating problem of the 9800 @trashbytes and others. It was very interesting read. I als have to admit that besides the potential drawbacks the 9800pro is a interesting card for me due to the power the card has to offer. But for the games I am interested in the 9600pro should be fine for me as well.

shevalier wrote on 2023-06-29, 11:18:

I hid in the box (finally almost perfect) rig #1 and use more modern hardware for Dungeon Keeper 2. Turion S754 2.2GHz + 2GB DDR […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-06-26, 15:57:

Which system should I choose for my field of use?

I hid in the box (finally almost perfect) rig #1 and use more modern hardware for Dungeon Keeper 2.
Turion S754 2.2GHz + 2GB DDR440 + X600Pro PCI-e + Diamond Monster MX300 (for A3D sound) .
All this on nVidia Crash51 chipset under Windows 2000 on SSD with native SATA2 .

And I like it much more than the pretentious rigs on P3.

Thanks for sharing your impressions. Your more powerful rig seems to be interesting as well.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-06-29, 12:19:

Thanks for sharing your impressions. Your more powerful rig seems to be interesting as well.

Yep, I finally got 22 fps instead of 13.
In game with official p166 spec in 1999.

shevalier wrote on 2023-06-29, 13:04:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-06-29, 12:19:

Thanks for sharing your impressions. Your more powerful rig seems to be interesting as well.

Yep, I finally got 22 fps instead of 13.
In game with official p166 spec in 1999.

Have never played Dungeon Keeper 2 so far but it is really amazing how hard it is to get dungeon keeper 2 running properly.

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question.

The negotiations with the guy that is building me the rig have come to an end. I will get the athlon xp 1600 system as I have said. I can either choose the Asrock K7S8XE or the MSI K7T266 Pro motherboard. The Asrock would be a bit more expensive.

Which one should I choose to get a stable experience with a rather powerful athlon from the Barton line and Radeon 9600?

As you guys recommended I am going to replace the Athlon xp 1600 with a more powerful Athlon from the Barton line and will pair it with Radeon 9600.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-07-13, 19:41:

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question. […]
Show full quote

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question.

The negotiations with the guy that is building me the rig have come to an end. I will get the athlon xp 1600 system as I have said. I can either choose the Asrock K7S8XE or the MSI K7T266 Pro motherboard. The Asrock would be a bit more expensive.

Which one should I choose to get a stable experience with a rather powerful athlon from the Barton line and Radeon 9600?

As you guys recommended I am going to replace the Athlon xp 1600 with a more powerful Athlon from the Barton line and will pair it with Radeon 9600.

Hi

If you're planning to use a Barton later, then you will need 400Mhz fsb.
The ASRock supports 400 MHz fsb while the MSI does not.

I you keep using the XP1600+ then either will do (from the fsb perspective)

acl wrote on 2023-07-14, 08:03:

Hi […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-07-13, 19:41:

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question. […]
Show full quote

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question.

The negotiations with the guy that is building me the rig have come to an end. I will get the athlon xp 1600 system as I have said. I can either choose the Asrock K7S8XE or the MSI K7T266 Pro motherboard. The Asrock would be a bit more expensive.

Which one should I choose to get a stable experience with a rather powerful athlon from the Barton line and Radeon 9600?

As you guys recommended I am going to replace the Athlon xp 1600 with a more powerful Athlon from the Barton line and will pair it with Radeon 9600.

Hi

If you're planning to use a Barton later, then you will need 400Mhz fsb.
The ASRock supports 400 MHz fsb while the MSI does not.

I you keep using the XP1600+ then either will do (from the fsb perspective)

Thanks for the info. In that case, I will go with the ASRock then. For the first couple of months, I want to play around with the XP 1600+ to see what it is capable of but in the long run, I want to with a powerful CPU to get out of the most the Radeon 9600pro.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-07-14, 09:43:

acl wrote on 2023-07-14, 08:03:

Hi […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-07-13, 19:41:

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question. […]
Show full quote

Sorry for digging out the thread again but have another question.

The negotiations with the guy that is building me the rig have come to an end. I will get the athlon xp 1600 system as I have said. I can either choose the Asrock K7S8XE or the MSI K7T266 Pro motherboard. The Asrock would be a bit more expensive.

Which one should I choose to get a stable experience with a rather powerful athlon from the Barton line and Radeon 9600?

As you guys recommended I am going to replace the Athlon xp 1600 with a more powerful Athlon from the Barton line and will pair it with Radeon 9600.

Hi

If you're planning to use a Barton later, then you will need 400Mhz fsb.
The ASRock supports 400 MHz fsb while the MSI does not.

I you keep using the XP1600+ then either will do (from the fsb perspective)

Thanks for the info. In that case, I will go with the ASRock then. For the first couple of months, I want to play around with the XP 1600+ to see what it is capable of but in the long run, I want to with a powerful CPU to get out of the most the Radeon 9600pro.

There are Barton that does not require 400mhz fsb. But the 266 MHz FSB offered by the MSI board is very restrictive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... 0,_130_nm)

So 400 MHz is not strictly required. But having a 400mhz fsb motherboard leaves you the choice for later to use virtually any Athlon you want.

acl wrote on 2023-07-14, 11:13:

There are Barton that does not require 400mhz fsb. But the 266 MHz FSB offered by the MSI board is very restrictive. […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-07-14, 09:43:

acl wrote on 2023-07-14, 08:03:

Hi […]
Show full quote

Hi

If you're planning to use a Barton later, then you will need 400Mhz fsb.
The ASRock supports 400 MHz fsb while the MSI does not.

I you keep using the XP1600+ then either will do (from the fsb perspective)

Thanks for the info. In that case, I will go with the ASRock then. For the first couple of months, I want to play around with the XP 1600+ to see what it is capable of but in the long run, I want to with a powerful CPU to get out of the most the Radeon 9600pro.

There are Barton that does not require 400mhz fsb. But the 266 MHz FSB offered by the MSI board is very restrictive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... 0,_130_nm)

So 400 MHz is not strictly required. But having a 400mhz fsb motherboard leaves you the choice for later to use virtually any Athlon you want.

I see. Thx for the further details.

That's good to know there are also some options for the msi mainboard but for having the best compatibility for various athlon cpu the Asrock is the most logical choice. I will go for it.

I hope you are going to have fun with your new gaming rig. I can fully understand the wish to max out the capabilities of your motherboard.

I think in a similar way. i also want to max out asus p2b the fullest. At the moment I am still using a pentium 2 400 mhz but I will max it out with pentium 3 900 mhz with a slocket adapter at some point in the future for the more demanding games.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-14, 16:55:

I hope you are going to have fun with your new gaming rig. I can fully understand the wish to max out the capabilities of your motherboard.

I think in a similar way. i also want to max out asus p2b the fullest. At the moment I am still using a pentium 2 400 mhz but I will max it out with pentium 3 900 mhz with a slocket adapter at some point in the future for the more demanding games.

Thanks. Yes maxing out the hardware you have by all means is a very interesting thing for sure.

@all I have the commisioned the xp 1600 system with Asrock motherboard by now. It is going to shipped to me next week.

I have also started looking for the geforce 9600pro to pull the trigger as soon as possible.

Would it be worth to go for the more powerful 9800pro if I find it a good price. Most online listings are solid for a low 3 digit sum but sometimes the cards are also listed at high 2 digit sum.

We already had the discusion about the over heating issue but would you say that the 9800pro is worth a purchase compared to the 9600 if I can it a cheaper price?

My personal opinion is mixed.

It would be cool without any doubt to own one the legendary 9800pro cards. There is no doubt about it. But on the other hand I am bit worried that it gets toasted after only short time of usage due the over heating problems.

I am also not sure if I can use the full power of the card anyway with my intended septup (athlon xp1600+ and later a barton core athlon) for late 90s to early 2001 games. I think for that time frame the 9600pro would offer ample of power?

What's your take on that matter?