VOGONS


Looking for advice for my next build.

Topic actions

First post, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It’s been a while since I last posted, in part because the random issues that I was having with my XP machine seemed to have been cleared up switching to a slightly newer PCI SoundBalster X-FI card and switching over to a two DIMM setup for my RAM. I feel like I am getting complacent, and I have had my financial situation improved, so I feel like starting up a new project. This time, the work will have a specific use in mind: Star Wars.

To be more specific, I am looking to run most of the pre-1999 Star Wars PC games, with the focus mainly being with the Dark Forces and X-Wing/TIE-Fighter series. While I would like to be able to potentially, be able to include that odd but good port of the Atari Arcade game and the Return of the Jedi game from 1987, neither are priorities. The latest games that I would be looking to play, on the other hand, are Jedi Knight/Mysteries of the Sith and maybe Rogue Squadron 3D.

As for why I am asking for advice, I am unsure of what would actually be best for this project. While I do have a free-floating Pentium II 350MHz laying around, I am unsure of that being the best bet for this project. I do not know if the processor has an unlocked multiplier, and I am unsure of whether or not the speed of it would have a negative effect on the speed of X-Wing and TIE Fighter if the multiplier is locked. I have attached a cropped picture of the processor, in case the data on top of it would help us figure out if it is indeed unlocked. If going back to an earlier Pentium will benefit me, I am totally fine with doing that.

Otherwise, I would mainly ask for help in figuring out what graphics solution would work best for me. While Rogue Squadron 3D does benefit from Glide, the majority of the late 90s Star Wars games are DX based. I am not married to the idea of my graphics card being explicitly form 1998, so going with something somewhat later would be totally fine. I would also like to know where I can substitute in a modern part as well, because I’m somewhat iffy on finding a twenty year old used case, and definitely would prefer to have a more modern power supply for safety reasons. Plus, having a solid state and easily replaceable HDD solution is something I am already planning on doing.

I am already planning on picking up an ISA sound card as well as a PCI card that properly supports A3D. My SC-55 mk1 (1.0.0 ROM) is still working perfectly, so I’m not too worried about having a specific card for MIDI music, unless you all have a suggestion for something that sounds particularly great in the X-Wing games. While I was planning on going with Windows 98 for familiarity and USB reasons, I would also be fine with potentially going back to Windows 95 if that would be better for the DOS games. Thank in advance for the advice, and the help in general. You people have saved me a handful of times already.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 1 of 27, by jheronimus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I don't think any major Star Wars game is speed-sensitive. Definitely not Dark Forces or X-Wing. So Pentium II should be fine. Besides, Slot 1 motherboards are mostly ATX, which is nice since you want to use modern cases and power supplies.

X-Wing also had two rereleases (Collector's CD-ROM and Collector Series) and Collector Series actually got support for 3D acceleration (and I think Glide in particular). So unless you also want to run something newer (like the fantastic Jedi Outcast, for example, but that would need a late Pentium 3/Pentium 4 machine), a Voodoo 3/4/5 card would be optimal.

Music: I think I remember X-Wing games sounding better on MT-32, but they certainly do support General MIDI.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 2 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I asked about the speed issue in part because of DOSBox having issues in the X-wing series if your cycles are set to high, though I can’t say I’m all that great at remembering the cycles math for equivalent processors. I am also aware of the updated versions of the games that came out around 1997, but I’m a bit too partial to the iMuse music shifting.

As for the graphics cards, is there a specific model of the listed Voodoo cards that I should go with? I ask because I don’t want to accidentally spend more than I need to, and I really only mention that because of the nostalgia tax being added on to the price. And, luckily, my 7900GTX is more than enough for the later JK games, and, luckily, still supports the old gameworks version that Republic Commando needs for bumpmapping.

Also, if I am not mistaken, the floppy releases of X-Wing and TIE Fighter actually have MT-32 specific things going on in iMuse, and that the graphically better collectors CD versions lack that. Would the MT-32 mode on my SC-55 properly play that, or is it just instrument loading? Thanks for the response.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 3 of 27, by FFXIhealer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I used to play Star Wars: X-Wing on a 486 with 16MB of memory and an analog flight stick with only two buttons. A 350MHz Pentium II will have ZERO issues running the game flawlessly. If anything, it should give you a silky-smooth 60 fps without stuttering.

For video cards, I don't think you'd need much unless you go for the version with 3D acceleration. Now, if you plan to do much else than Star Wars, that could inform your choice. A Voodoo3 AGP card should be more than enough for anything up to 1999 timeframe. After that, however, you'd look for more powerful cards. A Voodoo3 would get you D3D and the all-important Glide compatibility. That'll let you play Rogue Squadron, but also Turok 1 & 2, Half-Life has a mini-GL driver, Quake 1 & 2, Unreal, Tomb Raider 2, etc. Note that I had serious issues getting Glide to work on any of my Voodoo2 cards, but works perfectly with a Voodoo1 card. Not sure how it'll handle a Voodoo3. Others on this forum would tell you.

I have that exact CPU, though I don't use it anymore. It sits in a box on my shelf. I upgraded that computer to the fastest CPU it could use: a 600MHz Katmai Pentium 3.

292dps.png
3smzsb.png
0fvil8.png
lhbar1.png

Reply 4 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
FFXIhealer wrote:

I have that exact CPU, though I don't use it anymore. It sits in a box on my shelf. I upgraded that computer to the fastest CPU it could use: a 600MHz Katmai Pentium 3.

As a quick question, did you have a fan on your 350? Mine doesn’t seem to have one attached, though it does seem to have a bigger heat sink.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 5 of 27, by meljor

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
BetaC wrote:
FFXIhealer wrote:

I have that exact CPU, though I don't use it anymore. It sits in a box on my shelf. I upgraded that computer to the fastest CPU it could use: a 600MHz Katmai Pentium 3.

As a quick question, did you have a fan on your 350? Mine doesn’t seem to have one attached, though it does seem to have a bigger heat sink.

Multiplier will be locked on a 350mhz p2. But you should be able to lower the fsb on the motherboard giving you a 3,5x 66fsb + 233mhz p2 cpu if needed.
For cooling: if it has a large heatsink just use a loose fan pointing at it or tywrap it on the heatsink. It needs active cooling.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 6 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Thanks for the response, I’ll look in to finding a cooling solution for it, then.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 7 of 27, by buckeye

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Funny you're going down this road, I just built a like system with a P2 350 and a voodoo3 3000. For the record, rogue squadron, star wars
racer, dark forces, incoming all worked without a hitch with the 1.05 official drivers.

On the down side these games did not work: moto racer2, EA sports SBK and NFS III Hot Pursuit. Still working towards that though.

Asus P5N-E Intel Core 2 Duo 3.33ghz. 4GB DDR2 Geforce 470 1GB SB X-Fi Titanium 650W XP SP3
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 80GB SSD Asus V7700 GF2 64mb SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 8 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
buckeye wrote:

Funny you're going down this road, I just built a like system with a P2 350 and a voodoo3 3000. For the record, rogue squadron, star wars
racer, dark forces, incoming all worked without a hitch with the 1.05 official drivers.

On the down side these games did not work: moto racer2, EA sports SBK and NFS III Hot Pursuit. Still working towards that though.

What motherboard did you use, if I might ask? And luckily for me, so have Racer in both the N64 and Dreamcast, so it is less of a priority. That’s awesome, though.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 9 of 27, by SpectriaForce

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
meljor wrote:

Multiplier will be locked on a 350mhz p2. But you should be able to lower the fsb on the motherboard giving you a 3,5x 66fsb + 233mhz p2 cpu if needed.
For cooling: if it has a large heatsink just use a loose fan pointing at it or tywrap it on the heatsink. It needs active cooling.

There are actually PII 350 & 400 specimens that do have an unlocked multiplier, you need to have one from before week 30 1998 if I remember correctly (does anyone has some more information about specific week number and stepping?)

Besides the Pentium II Deschutes does not need active cooling if it has a decent heatsink (many OEM's didn't attach a fan either). A case fan for some airflow won't hurt though.

Reply 10 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
SpectriaForce wrote:
meljor wrote:

There are actually PII 350 & 400 specimens that do have an unlocked multiplier, you need to have one from before week 30 1998 if I remember correctly (does anyone has some more information about specific week number and stepping?)

Besides the Pentium II Deschutes does not need active cooling if it has a decent heatsink (many OEM's didn't attach a fan either). A case fan for some airflow won't hurt though.

Is there a guide for how to read the date codes on the processors?

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 11 of 27, by buckeye

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
BetaC wrote:
buckeye wrote:

Funny you're going down this road, I just built a like system with a P2 350 and a voodoo3 3000. For the record, rogue squadron, star wars
racer, dark forces, incoming all worked without a hitch with the 1.05 official drivers.

On the down side these games did not work: moto racer2, EA sports SBK and NFS III Hot Pursuit. Still working towards that though.

What motherboard did you use, if I might ask? And luckily for me, so have Racer in both the N64 and Dreamcast, so it is less of a priority. That’s awesome, though.

Motherboard is an intel se-440bx. Can't tweak it much but it's rock solid and stable.

Asus P5N-E Intel Core 2 Duo 3.33ghz. 4GB DDR2 Geforce 470 1GB SB X-Fi Titanium 650W XP SP3
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 80GB SSD Asus V7700 GF2 64mb SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 12 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
buckeye wrote:
BetaC wrote:
buckeye wrote:

Funny you're going down this road, I just built a like system with a P2 350 and a voodoo3 3000. For the record, rogue squadron, star wars
racer, dark forces, incoming all worked without a hitch with the 1.05 official drivers.

On the down side these games did not work: moto racer2, EA sports SBK and NFS III Hot Pursuit. Still working towards that though.

What motherboard did you use, if I might ask? And luckily for me, so have Racer in both the N64 and Dreamcast, so it is less of a priority. That’s awesome, though.

Motherboard is an intel se-440bx. Can't tweak it much but it's rock solid and stable.

Awesome, I’ll give it a look.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 13 of 27, by manbearpig

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I really like my MSI MS-6112 board.It's an LX chipset though, so you won't be able to run the FSB @ 100mhz. 4 ISA slots is the main reason I'm using it, with a 333MHz PII (no fan on the heatsink either).

I also like that there is no onboard sound or Ethernet, just the basics. I have USB 2.0, Gigabit Ethernet, Firewire, and ATA133 added too. Can use USB sticks with 98 if you have the right drivers.

kcWntM1h.jpg

Premio 212B motherboard (MSI MS-6112)
Intel PentiumII 333MHz Slot 1 66MHz bus
384MB ECC 66MHz
SIIG ATA133 controller --> Seagate Barracuda 80GB
SIIG Gigabit Ethernet (RTL8169) / USB 2.0 / IEEE1394 controller
ESS 1869 soundcard on board wavetable synth

Reply 14 of 27, by oeuvre

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Always thought it was peculiar these boards and many 440*X boards had 3 RAM slots.

HP Z420 Workstation Intel Xeon E5-1620, 32GB, RADEON HD7850 2GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
ws90Ts2.gif

Reply 15 of 27, by SpectriaForce

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
BetaC wrote:
SpectriaForce wrote:
meljor wrote:

There are actually PII 350 & 400 specimens that do have an unlocked multiplier, you need to have one from before week 30 1998 if I remember correctly (does anyone has some more information about specific week number and stepping?)

Besides the Pentium II Deschutes does not need active cooling if it has a decent heatsink (many OEM's didn't attach a fan either). A case fan for some airflow won't hurt though.

Is there a guide for how to read the date codes on the processors?

Yes, here's an example:

The attachment Intel Pentium II SL2TV a.jpg is no longer available

The first code is the CPU model (Intel S-spec = SL2TV)

The second code tells you something about the production country and date manufactured. The first number = 0 = Costa Rica, the second number = 8 = 1998 and the third and fourth numbers = 37 = week 37. Because the PII 350 & 400 were initially very expensive, you'll have a hard time finding a pre week 30 specimen, but they do exist.

That's all I know, but I know that some experts over here can you tell you more about the second code and unlocked multiplier stepping codes. The Pentium II Klamath series are always unlocked (can be under- or overclocked by adjusting FSB and multiplier), as well as the Celeron 300A (possibly more Celerons in SEPP cartridge, but I'm not sure).

Reply 16 of 27, by SpectriaForce

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
oeuvre wrote:

Always thought it was peculiar these boards and many 440*X boards had 3 RAM slots.

Indeed. It's even more peculiar that many folks over here want to max out the RAM of their 440*X motherboards, while all you're ever going to need for any W98 game is 128MB 😀 (I know that some later >2000 year games do require more RAM, but then you also want a faster CPU, GPU etc.).

Reply 17 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
SpectriaForce wrote:
Yes, here's an example: […]
Show full quote

Yes, here's an example:

Intel Pentium II SL2TV a.jpg

The first code is the CPU model (Intel S-spec = SL2TV)

The second code tells you something about the production country and date manufactured. The first number = 0 = Costa Rica, the second number = 8 = 1998 and the third and fourth numbers = 37 = week 37. Because the PII 350 & 400 were initially very expensive, you'll have a hard time finding a pre week 30 specimen, but they do exist.

That's all I know, but I know that some experts over here can you tell you more about the second code and unlocked multiplier stepping codes. The Pentium II Klamath series are always unlocked (can be under- or overclocked by adjusting FSB and multiplier), as well as the Celeron 300A (possibly more Celerons in SEPP cartridge, but I'm not sure).

Then it looks like I have one of those rare ones, since my third and fourth numbers are 19.

SpectriaForce wrote:
oeuvre wrote:

Always thought it was peculiar these boards and many 440*X boards had 3 RAM slots.

Indeed. It's even more peculiar that many folks over here want to max out the RAM of their 440*X motherboards, while all you're ever going to need for any W98 game is 128MB 😀 (I know that some later >2000 year games do require more RAM, but then you also want a faster CPU, GPU etc.).

That's part of why I am looking at grabbing a p2-99 that already has 256MB. If I ever need more, I can just use my later systems.

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png

Reply 18 of 27, by manbearpig

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
SpectriaForce wrote:
oeuvre wrote:

Always thought it was peculiar these boards and many 440*X boards had 3 RAM slots.

Indeed. It's even more peculiar that many folks over here want to max out the RAM of their 440*X motherboards, while all you're ever going to need for any W98 game is 128MB 😀 (I know that some later >2000 year games do require more RAM, but then you also want a faster CPU, GPU etc.).

Now it's not completely fair to say 440*X, my 440GX board makes use of all 2GB of RAM. Then again, it's not running Windows 98, it's running Debian 9 currently. The MSI board has 384MB of RAM and I'd have to check again to be sure but I'm pretty sure with Cakewalk and Logic running simultaneously, it will make use of it all. You're right about the games though.

Premio 212B motherboard (MSI MS-6112)
Intel PentiumII 333MHz Slot 1 66MHz bus
384MB ECC 66MHz
SIIG ATA133 controller --> Seagate Barracuda 80GB
SIIG Gigabit Ethernet (RTL8169) / USB 2.0 / IEEE1394 controller
ESS 1869 soundcard on board wavetable synth

Reply 19 of 27, by BetaC

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Because of me managing to grab a Voodoo 3 3000 last night, I decided to pull the trigger on grabbing a motherboard. I've decided to go with an Asus P2-99. I managed to find a tested one that already had 256MB put in, and an extra P3 for relatively cheap. Below are the parts I already have.

The attachment IMG_20190822_123502__01.jpg is no longer available

As always, my theoretically unlocked Pentium II-350, Voodoo 3, Yamaha (Audician?) OPL3 card, the AWE64 that was just sitting on a shelf at work, a working Creative CD5230E, and copies of both versions of Windows 98.Which version would be best for this build, FE or SE?

rfbu29-99.png
s8gas8-99.png
uz9qgb-6.png