When I play a game I sometimes have limited choices of keys because they might trigger some command in Windows - short cuts that I don't know about until I press the right keys. Is there a list of them or a way to disable them so I can play my games the way I want?
On such problem I am having lately is in Elite Force - a FPS. I am doing a 'strafejump' or whatever by using the up, left and right arrow keys and using the right mouse button. I press them quickly and sometimes all at once, and I hear a 'beep' from my PC - not from the speakers I mean. The game doesn't appear to freeze. It doesn't SEEM like I have triggered anything, but my PC beeps and I just don't know what that means. I take it I should find out.
When I play a game I sometimes have limited choices of keys because they might trigger some command in Windows - short cuts that I don't know about until I press the right keys. Is there a list of them or a way to disable them so I can play my games the way I want?
That's a multi-tiered question. We would need to know precise information about exactly what combination of keys, you were pressing and sometimes, their sequence as well. Otherwise, It would be mostly guessing. There are a huge number of keyboard shortcuts in WinXP. And that's not counting any programs you may have added.
... by using the up, left and right arrow keys and using the right mouse button. I press them quickly and sometimes all at once, and I hear a 'beep' from my PC - not from the speakers I mean. The game doesn't appear to freeze. It doesn't SEEM like I have triggered anything, but my PC beeps and I just don't know what that means.
The problem here is that the PC keyboard was never designed for that combination of keys to be pressed simultaneously. It was meant for word processing and spreadsheets. Simply put, the computer can't handle that data input over a standard keyboard connection.
There's a fairly easy fix for that, however. Buy a USB keyboard. It doesn't have the limitations of a standard keyboard.
Geez, I'm gonna need to buy a USB adaptar that makes it easier to plug things in and have more ports for them. I don't have that many USB ports. Not sure how many I have. And it seems like everything is USB now.
Actually, Nicht, that's wrong. I asked a hardware guy about this a while ago, and it isn't actually the bandwidth through the PS/2 port that's a problem -- keyboards use only a fraction of it (something like 20 bytes, which is rather extreme considering the most you should realistically need is 4 bits, but whatever). Rather, the problem is that there are a limited number of signal receivers per number of keys. Hit too many connected to the same signal receiver and the keyboard will have too much going to the receiver, and it will send a signal to beep, indicating that you've pressed too many keys. It's not something you can fix through a USB keyboard. Sorry to disappoint.
Actually, Nicht, that's wrong. I asked a hardware guy about this a while ago, and it isn't actually the bandwidth through the PS/2 port that's a problem...
Well, actually I'm guilty of over-generalizing there. I had thought it was a combination of the keyboard itself and setting in the BIOS, which caused the limitation. But I was trying to not get long-winded about it.
It's not something you can fix through a USB keyboard. Sorry to disappoint.
That's really strange as I've come across more than one person who specifically stated that switching to a USB keyboard eliminated his "too-many-keys-pressed" issue.
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
The problem here is that the PC keyboard was never designed for that combination of keys t […] Show full quote
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
The problem here is that the PC keyboard was never designed for that combination of keys to be pressed simultaneously. It was meant for word processing and spreadsheets. Simply put, the computer can't handle that data input over a standard keyboard connection.
There's a fairly easy fix for that, however. Buy a USB keyboard. It doesn't have the limitations of a standard keyboard.
Got to disagree about the PC keyboard never being designed for that combination of keys to be pressed simultaneously. The original IBM PC/AT keyboard was designed for "N-key rollover". The keyboard data rate also has nothing to do with problem. Snover had it right, it is a hardware problem with today's cheap membrane-based keyboards. The USB connectivity vs the PS/2 keyboard port is not the problem. The problem is the keyboard rollover. Here is some info below:
Membrane.
There are many ways to detect and decode switches in a matrix of keys. N-Key rollover, Multikey rollover and 2-ke […] Show full quote
Membrane.
There are many ways to detect and decode switches in a matrix of keys. N-Key rollover, Multikey rollover and 2-key rollover are the main ones used today.
2 Key Rollover:
This is not a good choice for standard typing keyboards and is usually used on cash registers, calculators and point of sale terminals or in any design that wants to prevent more than one key to be detected until the first key is released.
MULTIKEY:
The multikey rollover has its limitations as is can detect any two keys down in a matrix and also any and all keys in any one column or any and all keys in any row. When Shifts, Controls, Alts and Windows keys are used in combination there will be “lock-outs” ( firmware detection schemes) in the matrix and some keys will not be detected. This problem can be eliminated by isolating the Shifts, Controls, Alts and Window keys on a separate column isolated by “blocking diodes” on each row.
NKEY ROLLOVER:
This rollover scheme (routine) will detect and decode every key in the matrix in the order that they are pressed. this is the most efficent and accurate, but it has a cost. All of the keys in the matrix requires a diode associated with it to prevent “Phantom key” detection. A Phantom key is the fourth key in a tic-tac-toe matrix of any four keys, when 3 of the keys are down, the 4th key will be detected as down when in fact it is not. This scheme can not be used in a Membrane keyboard.
So what is the answer for dyinginformant in his quest for better game-play? How to gain an advantage over opponents? Simple, do not use one of today's cheap-as-hell membrane keyboards, since they can not support N-key rollover. Go for an "old school" late 1980s keyboard. You ask which keyboards do support N-key rollover, why the very one I am typing on at this moment. I give you, the IBMmodel M keyboard. The One True Keyboard. They are not made by IBM anymore, but this same keyboard technology was spun-off to another company which produces the same buckling-spring N-key rollover keyboards. The company is PcKeyBoard.com which is a division of Unicomp. They have the original IBM model M keyboards in stock. They also have newer models which use the same IBM mechanical buckling spring technology, but you would have to ask them if their new, almost identical IBM model M looking keyboards are N-key rollover types. I know that their stock of original IBM model M's that they have in stock are N-key rollover types.
Originally posted by dvwjr Got to disagree about the PC keyboard never being designed for that combination of keys to be pressed simultaneously.
Ok, I amend that to say the "common" keyboard. What I was trying to say is that when the PC was created nobody was thinking of how the customer would need to press Ctrl+Alt+R to activate a radar display while simultaneously using the arrow keys to maneuver, they were thinking in terms of word processing and databases, etc...
So what is the answer for dyinginformant in his quest for better game-play?
Oooo, "dissed" 😉 (dyinginformant is a she).
I give you, the IBMmodel M keyboard. The One True Keyboard.
You need some dramatic background music to go with that. Perhaps, something from "The Ring"? Heh.
Ok, I amend that to say the "common" keyboard. What I was trying to say is that when the PC was created nobody was thinking of how the customer would need to press Ctrl+Alt+R to activate a radar display while simultaneously using the arrow keys to maneuver, they were thinking in terms of word processing and databases, etc...
And this:
Oooo, "dissed" 😉 (dyinginformant is a she).
And finally this:
You need some dramatic background music to go with that. Perhaps, something from "The Ring"? Heh.
In fact searching for a new keyboard is hard. There doesn't seem to be much selection at any one store. People just don't seem to care much about which keyboards to buy. There seems to be choices of basic, internet keyboard, wireless keyboards, and ergonomic keyboards which I can't stand.
My problem with pressing multi keys at once mostly just occurs in this one FPS game: Elite Force - as I said, doing the strafe jump. Nothing bad happens but it is like maybe my PC doesn't like it. There aren't really other games I have this problem with. So I don't know if it's a big deal unless I decide to buy another Quake 3 engine game.
There's yet another reason I want a new keyboard. I just can't seem to find the right 'feel' of the keys. I really don't want a really 'clickity clackity' keyboard, and I don't want one that's so soft the keys almost get stuck when I push them in. Mine is somewhere in the middle - it's not too bad. I want a softer, but not too soft touch one, because it feels nicer, thus I can type a bit faster because it's more comfortable, and also it's quieter so I don't bother anyone at night if I'm on my PC a bit late. So, I really want to buy the keyboard in the store not online. I absolutely must try before I buy in this case. And so, what I want is an NKey rollover? Is there any keyboards with a soft feel and a quiet typing sound that are NKey rollover?
I appreciate the help.
And it's okay if he thought I was a he (are you a he? I'm sorry if I'm wrong). That's part of the brilliance of my username. Sometimes it's better if people don't know I'm a girl. Plus, I am in enough forums with my real name or 'rkpellagirl' as a name, so my sex is obvious. Anyway, no offense taken. 😉
Last edited by dyinginformant on 2002-11-25, 09:01. Edited 1 time in total.
Well, there was this: Ok, I amend that to say the "common" keyboard....
Ok, I was revising my previous statement, which was in error. Nothing stupid there.
And this: Oooo, "dissed"
Kidding obviously. I even stuck a winky-smiley-face in there so it shouldn't interpreted seriously (and I hate those things which is why I rarely use them).
And finally this:You need some dramatic background music to go with that.
Well he was obviously being extremely dramatic about the "IBM model M keyboard. The One True Keyboard." I immediately thought of the excerpt from "The Ring" which was used in the 1981 film "Excalibur" (specifically the sequences involving the Sword). It seemed to fit.
Any other questions, class?
What's the last number in the square root of pi?
Ok, let me be clear. I wan't trying to insult dvwjr and I hope no offense is taken. This is probably why I should limit my attempts at humor.
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
Oooo, "dissed" (dyinginformant is a she).
[…] Show full quote
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
Oooo, "dissed" (dyinginformant is a she).
That's OK. With anonomous nicknames on forums such as this one I assume the English generic he/his/him until proven otherwise. I'm a 'he', but the dvwjr gives that away since I've never heard of a woman with a Jr, IInd, IIIrd attached to their names...
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
You need some dramatic background music to go with that. Perhaps, something from "The Ring […] Show full quote
originally posted by Nicht Sehr Gut:
You need some dramatic background music to go with that. Perhaps, something from "The Ring"? Heh.
Actually, I was thinking of something more along the lines of the theme music from the Princess Bride instead. 😁
N-key rollover
N-key rollover means the code(s) corresponding to each key press are transmitted to the host system as soon as that key is debounced, independent of the release of other keys.
When a key is released, the corresponding break code is transmitted to the host system. Several keys can be held pressed at the same time. However, if two or more key closures occur within a time interval of less than 5 ms, an error flag is set, and those closures are not processed. This feature protects against the effects of accidental key presses.
originally posted by dyinginformant:
There's yet another reason I want a new keyboard. I just can't seem to find the right 'fee […] Show full quote
originally posted by dyinginformant:
There's yet another reason I want a new keyboard. I just can't seem to find the right 'feel' of the keys. I really don't want a really 'clickity clackity' keyboard, and I don't want one that's so soft the keys almost get stuck when I push them in. Mine is somewhere in the middle - it's not too bad. I want a softer, but not too soft touch one, because it feels nicer, thus I can type a bit faster because it's more comfortable, and also it's quieter so I don't bother anyone at night if I'm on my PC a bit late. So, I really want to buy the keyboard in the store not online. I absolutely must try before I buy in this case. And so, what I want is an NKey rollover? Is there any keyboards with a soft feel and a quiet typing sound that are NKey rollover?
I understand the typing feel problem you wish to solve. When you check keyboard specifications, you should check for full "N-key rollover". In some cases you will see "alpha N-key rollover" or "psuedo n-key rollover". Stick with the full "N-key rollover" to be safe. Now how can you even do a quick and dirty check for the presence of "N-key rollover". Here is a selection from a company which sells braille software which clearly elaborates the effects of "N-key rollver". The complete article explain it fairly well.
How to tell if your keyboard is OK
If you do not have ED-IT PC software on your computer, start up a simple word processing program such as "Wordpad". Put an empty document window on the screen, so that if you type on the keyboard the text shows on the screen. Then press the keys SDF JKL all at the same time and note what appears on the screen. An "original IBM PC specification" keyboard will generate six letters on the screen: sdfjkl but not necessarily in precisely that sequence. For each time you press all six keys at once, you should see six new letters appear on the screen, one each of s d f j k 1, in any order. If you get this behavior, your keyboard will be good for braille entry. A typical failing keyboard generates only three or four letters rather than all six. Such a keyboard will be OK for typing, but it is useless for braille entry.
I don't know if all the previous IBM keyboard which use the "quiet touch" keys would have the feel you desire, but check out this model Model 71G5794 IBM PS/2 Quiet touch with 2 button mouse which is on sale for $45.00. Great deal on an real old IBM with N-key rollover which is not "clicky" and has one of the best "keyboard feel" for the rubber dome technology. You might also check out Google for "keyboard, n-key rollover" for companies which offer true n-key rollover. Given the state of most computer stores, you will be hard pressed to find a keyboard with "n-key rollover" and the correct keyboard "feel".
The finest mechanical switch keyboards of the past were made by IBM model M, Northgate OmniKey, the follow ons Avant Steller, the Ortek MCK-142Pro and the PcKeyboard.com models. Most of the others keyboard models available today are "rubber-dome" multi-key rollover only.
Here are some numbers to help you gauge the "feel" of keyboards. If you can find specifications for your current keyboard, you would have something to evaluate "feel".
IBM buckling spring keyboards:
1IBM model M (buckling spring) keyboards 2========================================== 3Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 4Total Travel Key: 3.8 mm 5Peak Tactile Force: 72 gms +/- 20 gms 6Travel to Peak Tactile 2.5 mm Typical (BS) 7Keyswitch life: 25 million operations 8N-key rollover 9 10 11IBM enhanced quiet touch (rubber dome) keyboards: 12================================================= 13Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 14Total Travel Key: 3.0 mm 15Peak Tactile Force: 67 gms +/- 20 gms 16Travel to Peak Tactile 1.0 mm Typical (EQT) 17Keyswitch life: 10 million operations 18N-key rollover 19 20 21Avant Steller mechanical ALPS switch keyboards: 22=============================================== 23Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 24Total Travel Key: 3.5 mm +/- .05mm 25Peak Tactile Force: 70 gms +/- 25 gms 26Travel to Peak Tactile 1.0 mm typical 27Keyswitch life: 20 million operations 28N-key rollover 29 30 31Mitsumi membrane (rubber dome) keyboards: 32=============================================== 33Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 34Total Travel Key: 3.8 mm 35Peak Tactile Force: 30 gms 36Travel to Peak Tactile 3.0 mm typical 37Keyswitch life: 10 million operations 38Multi-key rollover 39 40 41Dell (NMB RT7D00:P1,P2) (rubber dome) keyboards: 42=============================================== 43Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 44Total Travel Key: 3.6 mm +/- 0.3 mm 45Peak Tactile Force: 55 gms +/- 12.5 gms (P1) 27.5 gms +/- 12.5 gms/7.5 gms 46Travel to Peak Tactile 2.2 mm typical 47Keyswitch life: 10 million operations 48Multi-key rollover 49 50 51Keytronic (E03601QU201) (rubber dome) keyboards: 52=============================================== 53Distance Between Keys: 19.0 mm 54Total Travel Key: 3.81 mm +/- 0.25 mm 55Peak Tactile Force: 58 gms +/- 10 gms 56Travel to Peak Tactile 1.27mm +/- 0.25mm typical 57Keyswitch life: 20 million operations 58Multi-key rollover
This might give you some ideas about what you like for keyboard feel and loudness. The rubber dome models are quiet, but feel mushy compared to mechanical switches.
I know all too well what the mushy keyboards feel like. About half of the (Apple, *sigh*) computers in our walk-in computer lab have keyboards that I can't use because you can never tell if you've actually pressed a key in. Arrgh. Terrible things. On the other hand, there are some reallly stiff keyboards I've used in the past that were almost as bad. Mine isn't an N-key keyboard, unfortunately, and I wish that it were.
FWIW, there was a company (maybe you mentioned them?) that makes an N-key keyboard that uses metal contacts instead of membranes with twelve programmable function keys (in addition to the twelve regular function keys) on the side. It's neat, but at $100+, it's pricey.
Wow - you know an amazing amount about keyboards, dvwjr. For a moment I thought I'd wandered over to arcadecontrols.com's forums, where they often discuss which is the better keyboard encoder (to use with their customized arcade control panels for their MAME cabinets)...
All incredibly useful stuff. Thanks! 😀
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