VOGONS


First post, by mikem

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I’m putting together a 486 “dream system” and trying to figure out how to handle storage.

I’d like to setup multiple operating systems including Win98SE, Win95, OS/2 & MS-DOS (mostly for nostalgic reasons, not any real practical reason) so I want a fairly large drive. I have a couple of VLB EIDE controllers (Including a QDI QD6500 with an empty EEPROM socket), an XTIDE card, a variety of hard drives, drive overlay software, etc.

Would it make the most sense to use XTIDE with a VLB card and System Commander to manage multiple operating systems? Or would I be better off using drive overlay software? If I use drive overlay, I doubt I could use System Commander - but maybe I could use some other boot manager.

Just curious what you all would do with something like this. I would use this system mostly for gaming & just “playing around”, and being able to boot into separate Windows 9x & a DOS / Win 3.1 environments would be my minimum satisfactory outcome.

Thanks!

Reply 1 of 18, by The Serpent Rider

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IDE disk on module or small PCB only SSD via adapter. Small SATA SSD are quite easy to find, since they actively used on printers and other stuff: Small capacity SSD PATA/SATA benchmarks

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 18, by chublord

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I know Windows 2000 (and probably NT) set up a boot menu, maybe you can use this to manage the different operating systems? Having Win 95 and 98 on the same machine is a bit hacky though, requires modifying MSDOS.SYS to change directories. Not sure how this would work with a DOS installation.

The other option would be (as The Serpent Rider I think is implying) to have a removable SD card or CF card, each with a different operating system that you can swap out. This has obvious reliability and performance benefits over a mechanical HDD too. CF and SD cards are dirt cheap.

Edit: removable SD card, not SSD

Also as you can see I went the other way (triple threat of mechanical IDE drives installed), while nice as in it's mostly period correct, it's much less flexible. And while none of the drives have failed yet, they sometimes exhibit odd behavior especially when first spinning up from boot.

Last edited by chublord on 2020-09-04, 17:46. Edited 2 times in total.

IBM Valuepoint 486 DX4-100, Opti 802G, 50 MHz FSB, Voodoo1+S3 864, Quantum Fireball EX 4.0 GB, Seagate Medalist 1.6 GB, 128 MB FPM, 256k L2

Reply 3 of 18, by The Serpent Rider

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Yes, bunch of easily switchable SSDs (or CF cards, if it suits your taste) is what I use for such things.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 4 of 18, by mikem

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Oh yeah removable CF cards or some sort of quick swap solution sounds like a great idea. Anyone know of a drive bay mounted SD or CF card reader in white? I’ve seen some black ones but I’d prefer to have it match the case.

Reply 5 of 18, by Intel486dx33

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Most VLB controllers have a hard drive size limit of 410mb. If you want to use the 32-bit driver.
Other wise it will only operate at 16-bit.

I don’t know how a CF card will work with a VLB controller ?

Reply 6 of 18, by mikem

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-09-04, 20:05:

Most VLB controllers have a hard drive size limit of 410mb. If you want to use the 32-bit driver.
Other wise it will only operate at 16-bit.

I don’t know how a CF card will work with a VLB controller ?

Shouldn’t it work the same as any IDE drive?

Reply 7 of 18, by cyclone3d

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mikem wrote on 2020-09-04, 22:29:
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-09-04, 20:05:

Most VLB controllers have a hard drive size limit of 410mb. If you want to use the 32-bit driver.
Other wise it will only operate at 16-bit.

I don’t know how a CF card will work with a VLB controller ?

Shouldn’t it work the same as any IDE drive?

Yes. And the hdd size limit is because of the motherboard BIOS and has nothing to do with the card unless you have a card with a BIOS. Then it depends on what the card's BIOS supports.

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Reply 8 of 18, by maxtherabbit

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I vote use the VLB controller with the XUB

Reply 9 of 18, by Warlord

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with XTIDE do u even need drive overlays?

Reply 10 of 18, by mikem

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Warlord wrote on 2020-09-05, 05:51:

with XTIDE do u even need drive overlays?

No, but would it be slower with XTIDE than an overlay? Or would the difference be imperceptible?

Reply 11 of 18, by kolderman

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If just DOS, compact flash.

If win95 or above, SSD.

Reply 12 of 18, by chinny22

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If you get a bunch of the same cards you don't even need to change settings in BIOS as the PC wont even know its a different 😀

If you have a spare drive bay you can use a standard IDE caddy like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-25-Drawer-Caddy- … moAAOSwcBlfQiVz

Reply 13 of 18, by Intel486dx33

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For best performance use the VLB controller with driver and use a CF card.
If it only operates as 16-bit at least you will have the performance of the CF card.

I dont know how the VLB driver will react to the CF card ?

Reply 14 of 18, by jakethompson1

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Is there any reason to use CF or SD card in place of a SATA SSD + SATA to IDE converter? Besides compatibility, cost, and ease of swapping out the disk?
I'd imagine SATA SSD +converter would support PIO Mode 4, 32-bit operation, and multi-sector transfers, whereas a CF/SD card may not. And I've found multi-sector transfers the biggest factor in performance.

Reply 15 of 18, by kolderman

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jakethompson1 wrote on 2020-09-05, 19:36:

Is there any reason to use CF or SD card in place of a SATA SSD + SATA to IDE converter? Besides compatibility, cost, and ease of swapping out the disk?
I'd imagine SATA SSD +converter would support PIO Mode 4, 32-bit operation, and multi-sector transfers, whereas a CF/SD card may not. And I've found multi-sector transfers the biggest factor in performance.

Yes - you are using DOS. DOS supports up to 8GB max with 2GB max partitions. 4GB and 8GB CF cards are ideal for this purpose. Larger hard disks may not be recognized by the bios of old AT motherboards. CF cards natively support IDE so their adapters have less electronics that SD card adapters, and are easier to remove and swap, i.e. they are basically the ideal. Compared to the performance of HDDs from the mid-90s I doubt you will be complaining about the performance of a reasonably fast CF card.

SSDs are perfect for Win98 because they are readily available in the sought after size of 120gb - find HDDs of that size is becoming difficult. They also are far more stable than CD/CF cards for 95/98, while Win95/95 does not generate so much write activity that the lack of TRIM support becomes a concern (which it may under XP).

Reply 16 of 18, by debs3759

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I found this if you want a front loading IDE CF adapter.

https://www.cclonline.com/product/62097/35BAY … Reader/ACC0179/

Cheaper than buying the same off ebay if in the UK.

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Reply 17 of 18, by mikem

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debs3759 wrote on 2020-09-05, 21:57:

I found this if you want a front loading IDE CF adapter.

https://www.cclonline.com/product/62097/35BAY … Reader/ACC0179/

Cheaper than buying the same off ebay if in the UK.

Yeah I’ve seen that one - just wishing it came in white to match my case. I guess I could paint it if it really bothered me.

Reply 18 of 18, by maxtherabbit

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mikem wrote on 2020-09-05, 07:07:
Warlord wrote on 2020-09-05, 05:51:

with XTIDE do u even need drive overlays?

No, but would it be slower with XTIDE than an overlay? Or would the difference be imperceptible?

no if anything it would be faster with the XTIDE Universal BIOS