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Reply 100 of 125, by STrRedWolf

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A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP.

I did see a SSH2DOS program and source code, which was classified as abandoned. I've pulled it up into Github in line to switch it over to mTCP and plug in another cypher to get it working on modern SSH daemons.

And one other thing. I found some old hardware that may be useful, a few Compact Flash cards.

  • Socket LP-E "Low Power Ethernet" adapter (with dongle!)
  • Belkin Bluetooth PDA Adapter
  • AmbiCom WL54-CF Wifi-G adapter
  • SparkLan WCFM-100 Wifi-G adapter

Since these ran off the Zaurus which ran Linux, I should have the source code to see about writing packet drivers and control programs with. Guess I better set up an Open Watcom compiler...

Reply 101 of 125, by ishotjr

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The Socket is NE2000 so should "just work" using the same/similar stack as your Netgear FA411 - I've detailed the required setup here:

https://www.palmtop.dev/200lx/networking/2021 … networking.html

but it sounds like you're already in good shape. Very interested to hear about your results writing drivers for Wi-Fi and BT though; I have the Wi-Fi version of the Socket card and would love some guidance as to how I might do similar there ... 😀

Reply 102 of 125, by radiance32

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STrRedWolf wrote on 2022-06-03, 01:08:
A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP. […]
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A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP.

I did see a SSH2DOS program and source code, which was classified as abandoned. I've pulled it up into Github in line to switch it over to mTCP and plug in another cypher to get it working on modern SSH daemons.

And one other thing. I found some old hardware that may be useful, a few Compact Flash cards.

  • Socket LP-E "Low Power Ethernet" adapter (with dongle!)
  • Belkin Bluetooth PDA Adapter
  • AmbiCom WL54-CF Wifi-G adapter
  • SparkLan WCFM-100 Wifi-G adapter

Since these ran off the Zaurus which ran Linux, I should have the source code to see about writing packet drivers and control programs with. Guess I better set up an Open Watcom compiler...

Yup, the Acton driver for NE2000 cards (LXCIC.COM enabler and LXEN2216.COM packet driver) that works with the FA411 also works with the Socket LPE (Compact Flash form NIC),
I use both NICs in my 200LX webserver setup (https://www.palmtoptube.com), the FA411 for the webserver (it does 10 and 100MBps) and the Socket LPE in my upcoming FTP server (does 10MBps only)...

I've had the best results with the FA411 so far, it's slightly faster than the Socket LPE, but, both cards work %100 stable/reliable...

Radiance

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 103 of 125, by radiance32

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STrRedWolf wrote on 2022-06-03, 01:08:
A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP. […]
Show full quote

A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP.

I did see a SSH2DOS program and source code, which was classified as abandoned. I've pulled it up into Github in line to switch it over to mTCP and plug in another cypher to get it working on modern SSH daemons.

And one other thing. I found some old hardware that may be useful, a few Compact Flash cards.

  • Socket LP-E "Low Power Ethernet" adapter (with dongle!)
  • Belkin Bluetooth PDA Adapter
  • AmbiCom WL54-CF Wifi-G adapter
  • SparkLan WCFM-100 Wifi-G adapter

Since these ran off the Zaurus which ran Linux, I should have the source code to see about writing packet drivers and control programs with. Guess I better set up an Open Watcom compiler...

Can you keep us (or at least me) updated on your progress with the mTCP conversion of SSH2DOS ?
I'm very keen on trying it out once it's working...

Cheers,
Radiance

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 104 of 125, by radiance32

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STrRedWolf wrote on 2022-06-03, 01:08:
A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP. […]
Show full quote

A bit of an update. I was able to procure a Netgear FA411 and get it running, so I can Telnet with mTCP.

I did see a SSH2DOS program and source code, which was classified as abandoned. I've pulled it up into Github in line to switch it over to mTCP and plug in another cypher to get it working on modern SSH daemons.

And one other thing. I found some old hardware that may be useful, a few Compact Flash cards.

  • Socket LP-E "Low Power Ethernet" adapter (with dongle!)
  • Belkin Bluetooth PDA Adapter
  • AmbiCom WL54-CF Wifi-G adapter
  • SparkLan WCFM-100 Wifi-G adapter

Since these ran off the Zaurus which ran Linux, I should have the source code to see about writing packet drivers and control programs with. Guess I better set up an Open Watcom compiler...

STrRedWolf,

Since performance will be crucial for your SSH implementation on systems with slow 8086/186/286 CPUs, here's something you can try to speed things up:
I've come across a very nice, extremely simple implementation of the XOR shift register (Xoshiro) type of random number generators that produces random numbers "nearly as good" as CPU intensive LCG (Linear Congruential type) RNGs.

I've been writing an unbiased path tracer (a sort of GI ray tracer) in MS-DOS during the last few weeks for an upcoming video on my 200LX YouTube channel,
and since path tracing requires lots of random numbers (just like SSL encryption does in your SSH2DOS) and requires an RNG with good periodicity and high quality "randomness",
I initially used an LCG similar to linuxs' rand48() with good, but slow results, as there's more than a dozen multiplications and additions per number in the function.

After switching from the LCG to this XOR shift register RNG I've got nearly identical quality random numbers with a high periodicity and no observable patterns (int32_t only though, but that's enough as my renderer uses single precision floats throughout),
but my engine speed increased from 49 minutes to 31 minutes per frame! 😀, with identical quality results. I'm using the Borland C++ 3.2 IDE and compiler/linker for MS-DOS.

For security reasons you might want to leave the current RNG in there, and maybe add a command line option to use the RNG you already use, or, this one, so users on slow systems like PC/XTs get a nice speed boost...
It's really simple too, only 3 bit shifts and 3 XORs on an unsigned 32bit integer, here's the function:

// Fast Xor Shift 32bit precision RNG
static uint32_t _fXorState = 2171454626; // RANDOM SEED & STATE

inline uint32_t fXOrShift32(void)
{
fXorState ^= fXorState << 13;
fXorState ^= fXorState >> 17;
fXorState ^= fXorState << 5;
return fXorState;
}

The 80186 CPU (HP 200LX) does bit shifts 3x to 4x faster than a 8086/8088, as does the 80286,
so it's even better on those platforms...

Cheers,
Radiance

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 105 of 125, by jhhoward

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Good to hear that there are few options when it comes to getting HP palmtops online. I haven't been able to find a suitable card yet but am on the lookout for one!

I had a look at potentially running an SSH client before but I believe the modern encryption may be too much for the slow processor? I would love to be proven wrong though, so please share if you make any progress. An alternative network setup I have used with my other palmtops is the RS232 Wifi Modem from theoldnet with a custom firmware flashed to provide a SLIP server. Since it is ESP / Arduino based it is easy to write a custom firmware for it - which makes me wonder if you could create a firmware with an SSH client for the modem and then just connect to it via a simple serial terminal.

If you have mTCP up and running, please take a look at MicroWeb, my web browser for 8088 machines. It's a bit basic but I even made an experimental HP 95LX build 😀
https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases

Reply 106 of 125, by radiance32

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jhhoward wrote on 2022-06-03, 06:47:
Good to hear that there are few options when it comes to getting HP palmtops online. I haven't been able to find a suitable card […]
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Good to hear that there are few options when it comes to getting HP palmtops online. I haven't been able to find a suitable card yet but am on the lookout for one!

I had a look at potentially running an SSH client before but I believe the modern encryption may be too much for the slow processor? I would love to be proven wrong though, so please share if you make any progress. An alternative network setup I have used with my other palmtops is the RS232 Wifi Modem from theoldnet with a custom firmware flashed to provide a SLIP server. Since it is ESP / Arduino based it is easy to write a custom firmware for it - which makes me wonder if you could create a firmware with an SSH client for the modem and then just connect to it via a simple serial terminal.

If you have mTCP up and running, please take a look at MicroWeb, my web browser for 8088 machines. It's a bit basic but I even made an experimental HP 95LX build 😀
https://github.com/jhhoward/MicroWeb/releases

On the lookout for a NIC card ?
I have a 2nd Netgear FA-411 10/100Mbits card I can sell you if you want a NIC for your 100 or 200LX.
PM me if you want it...

Radiance

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 107 of 125, by jhhoward

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radiance32 wrote on 2022-06-03, 07:39:

I have a 2nd Netgear FA-411 10/100Mbits card I can sell you if you want a NIC for your 100 or 200LX.

I don't have permissions to send PMs on the forum but I've sent an email to the address you have listed on your Youtube channel.

Reply 108 of 125, by STrRedWolf

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radiance32 wrote on 2022-06-03, 06:03:

Can you keep us (or at least me) updated on your progress with the mTCP conversion of SSH2DOS ?
I'm very keen on trying it out once it's working...

Sure! Right now I have the code here: https://github.com/STrRedWolf/SSH2DOS

So far I've only gotten to getting it up on GitHub. I've yet to get OpenWatcom set up, so it'll be a while.

Also, to be honest, I'd would love to make a "TCP/IP card" where the entire TCP/IP stack is on the PCMCIA card, and we use a simplified IO interface to get online. But that's for the future.

Reply 109 of 125, by radiance32

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STrRedWolf wrote on 2022-06-03, 12:19:
Sure! Right now I have the code here: https://github.com/STrRedWolf/SSH2DOS […]
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radiance32 wrote on 2022-06-03, 06:03:

Can you keep us (or at least me) updated on your progress with the mTCP conversion of SSH2DOS ?
I'm very keen on trying it out once it's working...

Sure! Right now I have the code here: https://github.com/STrRedWolf/SSH2DOS

So far I've only gotten to getting it up on GitHub. I've yet to get OpenWatcom set up, so it'll be a while.

Also, to be honest, I'd would love to make a "TCP/IP card" where the entire TCP/IP stack is on the PCMCIA card, and we use a simplified IO interface to get online. But that's for the future.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it 😀

BTW, I've heard from Michael Brutman (the mTCP developer) that Open Watcom 2.0 and higher are really bad, and you should stick to 1.8 or 1.9.
I've been using Borland C++ v3.2 myself, I'm not sure if there would be any difference in speed of compiled executables vs watcom, so maybe I should try Open Watcom 1.9 and do some comparisons against Borland's compiler...

Regarding having the TCP/IP stack on the card, the problem would be software, as there is'nt much DOS tcp/ip software available and applications like the mTCP suite won't work with your idea as they implement their own stack already...
I'd rather focus on writing drivers. What the 200LX really could use is a packet driver for one of the various 16-bit WIFI cards like the Cisco Aironet and ORINOCO cards... That would be a small job which will be very welcome in the community...

Cheers,
Terrence

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 110 of 125, by mbbrutman

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Er, for the record, people can make their own decision about the forks of Open Watcom later than 1.9. Its more accurate to say that I'm happy with Open Watcom 1.9 for my work.

Reply 111 of 125, by jhhoward

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Anecdotally speaking, I've had some issues with the newer OpenWatcom forks so I stick to 1.9. The main advantage of using OpenWatcom over Borland is that you can cross compile from a modern OS to develop your DOS application.

Reply 112 of 125, by STrRedWolf

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A bit of a late update here. I did poke in the current Linux kernel and I have to check how various PCMCIA Card/Socket services work in MSDOS. It may be for naught with the wireless cards, since they're rated for at least 300 mA operation and the 200LX only supplies up to 150 mA to the cards.

Reply 115 of 125, by InstantComet

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Greetings kind people here:
I struggle to get a D-link DFE 650 NIC working on my 200lx. It seemed to be an NE2000 compatible card. Lxcic could show its name but lxen2216.com nor pd2212.com seemed to work with it. (MAC address shown as all A0) . If I connect an ethernet cable to my local network, the light goes on and the port shows a 10M link in the management interface. It seems that 200lx just can't really talk to the NIC.

Some other NICs I have on hand:
Accton en2212-2, which doesn't seem to work at all, was not picked up by lxcic.
Dlink DE 650/DE660, should be NE2000 compatible, picked up by lxcic, MAC address shown as all A0.
Socket LP-E, lxen2216 shows a seemingly normal mac address, but I don't have a dongle for it.

Any insight about what I can do would be much appreciated.

Reply 116 of 125, by radiance32

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Hi,

I can only comment on the ones I have used myself...
If it doesn't work then I assume they are not compatible or defective...

I personally have the following two cards which work %100 through their NE2000 compatibility mode:

Netgear FA411
Socket Communications LP-E (with the dongle)

I can't remember if the Socket LP-E works at 100MBits, It definately works at 10MBits as I've used it a few years ago, but the Netgear FA411 does,
and it negotiates and runs at 100MBits full duplex on my 200LX. (Not that it matters, as the 200LX is too slow to be able to send or receive more than 10MBits per second 🤣 😀 )

Maybe keep an eye out on e-bay for one of these...
I would recommend the Netgear FA411 as it's fast, moderately available and fairly cheap, and you don't have to use a dongle that is easily lost...
Don't get an FA511 or anything else from Netgear, only the FA411 is known to work...

Cheers,
Terrence

InstantComet wrote on 2024-11-01, 06:12:
Greetings kind people here: I struggle to get a D-link DFE 650 NIC working on my 200lx. It seemed to be an NE2000 compatible car […]
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Greetings kind people here:
I struggle to get a D-link DFE 650 NIC working on my 200lx. It seemed to be an NE2000 compatible card. Lxcic could show its name but lxen2216.com nor pd2212.com seemed to work with it. (MAC address shown as all A0) . If I connect an ethernet cable to my local network, the light goes on and the port shows a 10M link in the management interface. It seems that 200lx just can't really talk to the NIC.

Some other NICs I have on hand:
Accton en2212-2, which doesn't seem to work at all, was not picked up by lxcic.
Dlink DE 650/DE660, should be NE2000 compatible, picked up by lxcic, MAC address shown as all A0.
Socket LP-E, lxen2216 shows a seemingly normal mac address, but I don't have a dongle for it.

Any insight about what I can do would be much appreciated.

Last edited by radiance32 on 2024-11-01, 21:57. Edited 2 times in total.

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 117 of 125, by radiance32

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Have you tried using your Accton (which should work according to info on several sites),
and using lxcic AND mTCP with the correct packet driver ?
It's been a few years, not %100 sure, but I think lxcic doesn't start the network adapter/turn on the LEDs,
but the NE2000 driver does...

Watch my video on my channel on creating a webserver on a 200LX for all the details and mTCP setup explained,
I'm using the Netgear FA411 but with the NE2000 driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2KWLnKyOKk

Cheers,
Terrence

InstantComet wrote on 2024-11-01, 06:12:
Greetings kind people here: I struggle to get a D-link DFE 650 NIC working on my 200lx. It seemed to be an NE2000 compatible car […]
Show full quote

Greetings kind people here:
I struggle to get a D-link DFE 650 NIC working on my 200lx. It seemed to be an NE2000 compatible card. Lxcic could show its name but lxen2216.com nor pd2212.com seemed to work with it. (MAC address shown as all A0) . If I connect an ethernet cable to my local network, the light goes on and the port shows a 10M link in the management interface. It seems that 200lx just can't really talk to the NIC.

Some other NICs I have on hand:
Accton en2212-2, which doesn't seem to work at all, was not picked up by lxcic.
Dlink DE 650/DE660, should be NE2000 compatible, picked up by lxcic, MAC address shown as all A0.
Socket LP-E, lxen2216 shows a seemingly normal mac address, but I don't have a dongle for it.

Any insight about what I can do would be much appreciated.

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ

Reply 118 of 125, by InstantComet

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radiance32 wrote on 2024-11-01, 21:51:
Have you tried using your Accton (which should work according to info on several sites), and using lxcic AND mTCP with the corre […]
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Have you tried using your Accton (which should work according to info on several sites),
and using lxcic AND mTCP with the correct packet driver ?
It's been a few years, not %100 sure, but I think lxcic doesn't start the network adapter/turn on the LEDs,
but the NE2000 driver does...

Watch my video on my channel on creating a webserver on a 200LX for all the details and mTCP setup explained,
I'm using the Netgear FA411 but with the NE2000 driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2KWLnKyOKk

Cheers,
Terrence

Thanks a lot! Your videos have been my main source of knowledge about the 200LX, they are really helpful.
Unfortunately, it seems highly unlikely that I can find an FA411 in my region these days, I will keep an eye on that though. About the socket LP-E, I bought some RJ45 jacks with a builtin transformer. Hopefully, I can put together something useful.

Since you are here, I have some more questions for you: Did you find any SCSI cards compatible with the 200LX, or any other parallel cards other than SPP-100?

Many thanks.

Reply 119 of 125, by radiance32

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Well, good luck with the FA411, they do pop up a few times per year on ebay so keep an eye out for it...
You can also have a service like lazyperks watch ebay for you 24/7 and have it send you an email if one pops up.

I did not manage to find a working SCSI-2 PCMCIA card unfortunately as it seems (after examining the assembly source code for lxcic.exe, SCSI PCMCIA cards aren't supported),
so your only option is to find a parallel port card and use a parallel SCSI adapter like in my SCSI video on my channel.

Besides the Quatech SPP-100 parallel port card, there is also the Trans Digital parallel port PCMCIA card. (I have both cards)
Note that the Quatech supports Enhanched mode, so it's faster, but in practice it does'nt make much difference as the 200LX is'nt fast enough to use it...

Yours,
Terrence

InstantComet wrote on 2024-11-03, 05:45:
Thanks a lot! Your videos have been my main source of knowledge about the 200LX, they are really helpful. Unfortunately, it seem […]
Show full quote
radiance32 wrote on 2024-11-01, 21:51:
Have you tried using your Accton (which should work according to info on several sites), and using lxcic AND mTCP with the corre […]
Show full quote

Have you tried using your Accton (which should work according to info on several sites),
and using lxcic AND mTCP with the correct packet driver ?
It's been a few years, not %100 sure, but I think lxcic doesn't start the network adapter/turn on the LEDs,
but the NE2000 driver does...

Watch my video on my channel on creating a webserver on a 200LX for all the details and mTCP setup explained,
I'm using the Netgear FA411 but with the NE2000 driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2KWLnKyOKk

Cheers,
Terrence

Thanks a lot! Your videos have been my main source of knowledge about the 200LX, they are really helpful.
Unfortunately, it seems highly unlikely that I can find an FA411 in my region these days, I will keep an eye on that though. About the socket LP-E, I bought some RJ45 jacks with a builtin transformer. Hopefully, I can put together something useful.

Since you are here, I have some more questions for you: Did you find any SCSI cards compatible with the 200LX, or any other parallel cards other than SPP-100?

Many thanks.

Check out my new HP 100/200LX Palmtop YouTube Channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCVChzZ62a-c4MdJWyRwdCQ