Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:15:

brostenen wrote on 2020-05-24, 16:52:

TechieDude wrote on 2020-05-24, 14:24:

No need to be a jerk 🙄

I don't think he is being a jerk. He is right in that it is a bad idea to overclock retro or even vintage hardware.

He sounds like he's in the l33t mob, ie one of those over sensitive snowflakes I mentioned a few days ago.

derSammlers' advice was sound. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Hmmm.... Looks like I am one of that l33t something. Whatever that is?
I am on board with derSammler's opinion/advice. Heat is the enemy of our beloved stuff, and we all know what overclocking produce!

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:15:

brostenen wrote on 2020-05-24, 16:52:

I don't think he is being a jerk. He is right in that it is a bad idea to overclock retro or even vintage hardware.

He sounds like he's in the l33t mob, ie one of those over sensitive snowflakes I mentioned a few days ago.

derSammlers' advice was sound. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Wow, i did NOT expect overclocking to kick the hornets nest around here. I bought this board fully expecting to try to hot-rod a 486.

It was just changing a few bus speed jumpers anyway, guys 😀
Not messing with any "overvolting" or playing around with power jumpers. Now -that- would be hardware suicide and a fire hazard!

Yeah, i get why people are maybe a bit upset over not treating this stuff with gentle care, and i usually agree. But hey, like i said, i bought into this knowing what might happen. Thats just part of the fun for me.

Good news though is, SHE LIVES!!. Pour one back in for the LS486 😁
Re-did all the jumpers on the board and it decided to post properly. 586s just arn't for me, im gonna stick a nice DX4-100 in her and make a great classic 486 build 😁

Finished restoring the PC analog joystick I started with yesterday.

Best.Joystick.Ever.

Can't believe how awesome this thing is.

SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:59:

Wow, i did NOT expect overclocking to kick the hornets nest around here. I bought this board fully expecting to try to hot-rod […]
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Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:15:

brostenen wrote on 2020-05-24, 16:52:

I don't think he is being a jerk. He is right in that it is a bad idea to overclock retro or even vintage hardware.

He sounds like he's in the l33t mob, ie one of those over sensitive snowflakes I mentioned a few days ago.

derSammlers' advice was sound. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Wow, i did NOT expect overclocking to kick the hornets nest around here. I bought this board fully expecting to try to hot-rod a 486.

It was just changing a few bus speed jumpers anyway, guys 😀
Not messing with any "overvolting" or playing around with power jumpers. Now -that- would be hardware suicide and a fire hazard!

Yeah, i get why people are maybe a bit upset over not treating this stuff with gentle care, and i usually agree. But hey, like i said, i bought into this knowing what might happen. Thats just part of the fun for me.

Good news though is, SHE LIVES!!. Pour one back in for the LS486 😁
Re-did all the jumpers on the board and it decided to post properly. 586s just arn't for me, im gonna stick a nice DX4-100 in her and make a great classic 486 build 😁

Good that it did not die a horrible death. That would have been expensive.
However. Have you tried an actual DX4-120 CPU?
Not those DX4-100's that people are beating to run 120. That is like 20% overclocking.

I played some South Park Rally, for the first time.

I don't know if it's good or bad. Very mixed reviews online.

I find it way too hard, but it looks so good with dgVoodoo2...

TechieDude wrote on 2020-05-24, 14:24:

Many things that may or may not happen with Socket 7 boards sooner or later, like BIOS chip failing, or just the BIOS being over […]
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SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-05-24, 10:52:

-blows trumpet- […]
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-blows trumpet-

Well, pour one out for her, ladies and gentlemen. My LS486 has bit the dust.

Was tryna OC it a bit more today, came to the realization 160 nor 150 is happening. I finally figured out how to clear the CMOS so inbetween my attempts id do so just incase.
I guess i cleared CMOS one too many times and "Cleared" away whatever life was left in this thing because now it refuses to POST. Even with the jumpers set for normal CMOS operation.

Tried with a 5x86 and a 486ODPR, double checked their respective jumpers, did a board examination, nothing. No beeps out the speaker either.

Well that was an expensive loss. What is it with most 486 boards biting the dust so easy that makes Socket 7 boards so bullet proof in comparison.
Maybe this is just the excuse i need to return to Pentium town ;-;

Many things that may or may not happen with Socket 7 boards sooner or later, like BIOS chip failing, or just the BIOS being overwritten with junk, capacitors going bad, chipsets heating and cooling one too many times, some of their pins not actually making contact with the board etc. Could also be your RAM going bad or just the contacts of the SIMMs being a bit dirty and not making proper contact. Try cleaning them with an eraser just in case.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-24, 12:44:

Overclocking attempts? But people don't listen, no matter how often you warn them that overclocking can cause permanent damage. Might not be a direct result of overclocking, but from all the fiddling that would not have happened otherwise.

No need to be a jerk 🙄

There is nothing "jerky" about it . DerSammler's statement is true in that there are risks to the overclocking process . Now, it's a matter of opinion as to whether those risks are worth it or not to a given person . The owner of the hardware is the one who decides , in the end .

To make an informed decision, information is required. DerSammler provided some information which can be verified through some basic research (the references quoted in the Wikipedia article on overclocking are a good starting point) . If you find that you prefer staying in ignorance or denial, for that matter, that's up to you . What that makes you is something that needs not be commented upon .

TechieDude wrote on 2020-05-24, 14:24:

No need to be a jerk 🙄

derSammler gave some good advice on this forum, including to me too. You might wanna listen to him.

No one needs to listen to me. I mainly express my personal opinions. No need to fight about different opinions either. If someone follows my advice, fine. But if not, that's fine as well.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-24, 15:31:

That has nothing to do with being a jerk. He did overclocking and I don't feel sorry about anyone killing hardware by doing this. People should learn to stop overclocking retro hardware. All this stuff is rare enough already and there's no need for such silly experiments. I said this many times in the past: if a system is not fast enough, get a faster one instead of overclocking. Overclocking is actually for jerks who want others to applaud for a 200 MHz 486. That's just lame.

I'm repairing and restoring old hardware for over two decades now and it just pisses me off seeing people killing old hardware just because they think they must overclock everything, have no clue about ESD protection, and what not.

I'm not doubting your knowledge nor your experience. You just came off as a condescending jerk, that's what annoyed me. It's not like you never made any mistakes yourself, and that's ok, everyone does, It's not like you didn't also start somewhere. You weren't always an expert. Nobody was from the start anyway...
Besides, he didn't actually try to run it at 200 MHz, which indeed would have been more than pointless, if not straight-up idiotic.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:15:

He sounds like he's in the l33t mob, ie one of those over sensitive snowflakes I mentioned a few days ago.

derSammlers' advice was sound. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Over-sensitive snowflake? Seriously? So anyone who doesn't like people acting in a certain way is a freaking snowflake? What is that even supposed to mean? Isn't this supposed to be a community?

Also, for the record, derSammlers' advice was in fact sound. I never said it wasn't. I just mentioned other things that could have also gone wrong. And in this case, it WAS in fact something else. The only issue I have is with how he went about saying it.

darry wrote on 2020-05-24, 19:45:

There is nothing "jerky" about it . DerSammler's statement is true in that there are risks to the overclocking process . Now, it's a matter of opinion as to whether those risks are worth it or not to a given person . The owner of the hardware is the one who decides , in the end .

To make an informed decision, information is required. DerSammler provided some information which can be verified through some basic research (the references quoted in the Wikipedia article on overclocking are a good starting point) . If you find that you prefer staying in ignorance or denial, for that matter, that's up to you . What that makes you is something that needs not be commented upon .

Of course there are all kinds of risks in OCing. I have known that for quite some time. I'm neither in denial nor ignorance, I just pointed out other (common) points of failure on such old hardware that could have also struck at that unfortunate time. That's all. No need to make this into a flamewar. Please.

TechieDude wrote on 2020-05-24, 21:05:

I'm not doubting your knowledge nor your experience. You just came off as a condescending jerk, that's what annoyed me. It's not […]
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derSammler wrote on 2020-05-24, 15:31:

That has nothing to do with being a jerk. He did overclocking and I don't feel sorry about anyone killing hardware by doing this. People should learn to stop overclocking retro hardware. All this stuff is rare enough already and there's no need for such silly experiments. I said this many times in the past: if a system is not fast enough, get a faster one instead of overclocking. Overclocking is actually for jerks who want others to applaud for a 200 MHz 486. That's just lame.

I'm repairing and restoring old hardware for over two decades now and it just pisses me off seeing people killing old hardware just because they think they must overclock everything, have no clue about ESD protection, and what not.

I'm not doubting your knowledge nor your experience. You just came off as a condescending jerk, that's what annoyed me. It's not like you never made any mistakes yourself, and that's ok, everyone does, It's not like you didn't also start somewhere. You weren't always an expert. Nobody was from the start anyway...
Besides, he didn't actually try to run it at 200 MHz, which indeed would have been more than pointless, if not straight-up idiotic.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 18:15:

He sounds like he's in the l33t mob, ie one of those over sensitive snowflakes I mentioned a few days ago.

derSammlers' advice was sound. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Over-sensitive snowflake? Seriously? So anyone who doesn't like people acting in a certain way is a freaking snowflake? What is that even supposed to mean? Isn't this supposed to be a community?

Also, for the record, derSammlers' advice was in fact sound. I never said it wasn't. I just mentioned other things that could have also gone wrong. And in this case, it WAS in fact something else. The only issue I have is with how he went about saying it.

darry wrote on 2020-05-24, 19:45:

There is nothing "jerky" about it . DerSammler's statement is true in that there are risks to the overclocking process . Now, it's a matter of opinion as to whether those risks are worth it or not to a given person . The owner of the hardware is the one who decides , in the end .

To make an informed decision, information is required. DerSammler provided some information which can be verified through some basic research (the references quoted in the Wikipedia article on overclocking are a good starting point) . If you find that you prefer staying in ignorance or denial, for that matter, that's up to you . What that makes you is something that needs not be commented upon .

Of course there are all kinds of risks in OCing. I have known that for quite some time. I'm neither in denial nor ignorance, I just pointed out other (common) points of failure on such old hardware that could have also struck at that unfortunate time. That's all. No need to make this into a flamewar. Please.

derSammler sometimes comes across as a bit of a jerk, but I always thought of it as part of the language barrier and left it at that.

It was a very good day for retro activities. I played Ultima Underworld for a couple of hours and then spent the rest of the evening spinning 45RPM singles from the 80-s 😀

Did some more work on my SixtyClone 466 board. One of the few components that are near impossible to get as a original commodore component. Are the choke coil, at the correct ratings as the original one. The 250425 and 250466 boards, use the same coil. You can get modern coils, however, they do not all have the same resistance or other ratings. So I had to eighter search deep and extremely broad, in order to get that original part with the correct rating's. Well... A couple of weeks ago, I went throught the service manual of different commodore machines, and what do you know, I found that the choke coil used on the Commodore16, have the exact same Commodore parts number, as the choke coil used on the C64 250425 and 250466 boards. I quick mail to both Jan Beta and Adrian Black, confirmed that Commodre was rather strict with their parts number, yet used same parts for multiple machines. So I took a gamble and bought a defect C16 board without any chips on it. It was cheap, only 3 euro, and way cheaper if I was to actually find that specific part. (anyone interrested in a donor-C16 board with few parts missing?)

Anyway...
I desoldered the coil, and soldered it on to my board. Then I did a quick continuity test. First from pin 7 on power-in to rectifier, and then from 6 on power-in, through switch and to the fuse. Everything tested perfect. I was rather nervous, that the coil had the legs on the wrong positions. Meaning that pin 7 on the power-in would then connect to fuse instead. I was lucky, and I have found the perfect part. A real Commodore era coil.

Did a lot of maintenance on my retro area today. Main reason was work-related: the powerline set I use to feed the room needed to be removed because it was from a serial number range I need to disable permanently soon (faulty batch), and I also had a different set I wanted to test. Good news: G.hn wave 2 actually lives up to the promise of doubling performance vs G.hn wave 1 under real-world circumstances, factor 2.5 in this case actually.Totally non-retro, but the new beast was so big it interfered with the power socket next to it, so I needed to move that into the pass-through socket on the powerline adapter. No problem, except for the fact that the powerline adater is Belgian and has a big ground pin sticking out of the socket. Any modern EU plug can handle that, with both a hole and clips for NL/DE-style edge ground- but of course my extension cord had an older plug without the hole, so I needed to replace the main extension cord. That meant half an hour of acrobatics over, under and behind my table.

Doing that, I realized that I hadn't wired up my older systems for Ethernet. So did that too, then spent the afternoon using FTPSRV from mTCP to move around all those files I couldn't be bothered to sync properly before getting the systems networked. It was slooooow, but it works beautifully. Also means I'm ready to test exactly how slow when I have time - I've been wanting to do that SMC vs 3Com showdown for quite a while now.

brostenen,

That is common mode filter choke! You can use any of these, works same at 60hz at any voltage from old power supply ac input filter, small PSUs have these.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox- … mmon+mode+choke

https://images.app.goo.gl/SvsW23WX1p5RmXtq6

Intent is to block high frequency noise that interfere both ways.

Cheers,

mastergamma12 wrote on 2020-05-24, 04:57:

Yeah the backplane board has 2 pci slots and an isa slot. […]
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Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-05-24, 04:38:

mastergamma12 wrote on 2020-05-24, 04:26:

It was one of those low profile systems with limited expansion slots.

You didn't answer bjwils question.

Yeah the backplane board has 2 pci slots and an isa slot.

Only issue with using an ide controller card is I lose one of the slots that I'd need.

Maybe if I find a full tower VLI8 that's missing a board will I try this board again.

Looks like I was able to get the ide controllers working after all.

The board's real picky with what it likes.

Finally stripped down the Wyse WT9450XE thin client. Not sure if I like the original cheap plastic clamshell, or the cage-of-doom look.

Tested my 3 PCI sound cards with it, not sure which one I am the most disappointed with for DOS gaming...

AOpen AW744L - Yamaha YMF744b - no output amp and require caps on the PCI riser to filter out bus noise...not happening on this tight chassis.

AOpen AW850 -C-Media CM8178 - works decent as an FM card, but SFX is not functional in most DOS games.

Turtle Beach Santa Cruz- Crystal CS4230?- ummm, just refuses to work no matter what. Not in Windows, not in Linux. And DOS compatibility requires Windows to be sane. No go.

Gave up on PCI for now and went back to the Via VT8231 built-in audio (with SB pro support in hardware). After using umbpci to shove the various drivers (including the 36k Via FM TSR) out of conventional memory, was finally able to get F-15 Strike Eagle III to work. DoTT worked, Pyrotechnica worked, Space Quest III worked, as did TIE fighter and US Navy Fighters (had to use shsucdrd to load the CD ISO to RAM and then load it as a virtual CD drive...but it works). Monkey Island 1 didn’t work and neither did Falcon 3, but it's a good start.

Oh well, that’s 95% of the bucket list tested worked. Now as for that other 5%....ESS Solo-1?

SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-05-24, 10:52:

-blows trumpet- […]
Show full quote

-blows trumpet-

Well, pour one out for her, ladies and gentlemen. My LS486 has bit the dust.

Was tryna OC it a bit more today, came to the realization 160 nor 150 is happening. I finally figured out how to clear the CMOS so inbetween my attempts id do so just incase.
I guess i cleared CMOS one too many times and "Cleared" away whatever life was left in this thing because now it refuses to POST. Even with the jumpers set for normal CMOS operation.

Tried with a 5x86 and a 486ODPR, double checked their respective jumpers, did a board examination, nothing. No beeps out the speaker either.

Well that was an expensive loss. What is it with most 486 boards biting the dust so easy that makes Socket 7 boards so bullet proof in comparison.
Maybe this is just the excuse i need to return to Pentium town ;-;

I also have a Socket 3 system with an AMD 5x86 that, from time to time, decides to die completely, without any reason whatsoever.

The thing is, mine is not overclocked, every jumper is set according to the manual. Plopping in a 486DX2 (and setting the jumpers) somehow makes it come alive, and after that I can put the 5x86 back in and everything works again.

pentiumspeed wrote on 2020-05-25, 01:27:

brostenen, […]
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brostenen,

That is common mode filter choke! You can use any of these, works same at 60hz at any voltage from old power supply ac input filter, small PSUs have these.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox- … mmon+mode+choke

https://images.app.goo.gl/SvsW23WX1p5RmXtq6

Intent is to block high frequency noise that interfere both ways.

Cheers,

I know... Yet they are not always in the correct ratings. And for something like a Commodore64, you really need to use the correct type of parts. Like you do not ever use tanteleum caps were electrolyt is supposed to be. So the coil need to have the exact same ratings as the original one. I have asked around on various forums about were to get the correct part. And even the BOM list of the SixtyClone, have that part added as "potential replacement part under investigation" or something like that. Even the person that updates that list, have no real answer to what part can be used instead. So getting the correct unused or NOS part, is quite hard to come by.

Today, I replaced the barrel battery on my Gigabyte GA-486VS with a new one. To avoid the hassle with external battery packs or coin cell holders, I just ordered a new barrel battery as a drop-in replacement. The existing one had survived 26 years without leaking, so I suppose the new one will be good for another 26 years, which is fine for me.
Since the HDD in this machine had bit the dust, I installed a 32MB Apacer PATA DOM that I had kicking around, probably from some sort of thin client or network appliance. To my surprise, it (almost) booted into a Debian Linux installation (Kernel 2.6.x). Of course, 32MB is way too small, so I'm going to replace it soon. But since I don't have any period correct hard drives left and disks of this age tend to be unreliable anyway, I ordered some CF-IDE adapters from China.
However, to get the machine up and running again, I will probably throw DOS + Win 3.11 on the DOM. 😀

brostenen wrote on 2020-05-25, 09:01:

I know... Yet they are not always in the correct ratings. And for something like a Commodore64, you really need to use the correct type of parts. Like you do not ever use tanteleum caps were electrolyt is supposed to be. So the coil need to have the exact same ratings as the original one. I have asked around on various forums about were to get the correct part. And even the BOM list of the SixtyClone, have that part added as "potential replacement part under investigation" or something like that. Even the person that updates that list, have no real answer to what part can be used instead. So getting the correct unused or NOS part, is quite hard to come by.

Tantalum capacitors are electrolytes, their main advantages over aluminium electrolytic capacitors are high density and low leakage. There should be absolutely no ill effect when replacing aluminium electrolytes with similarly rated tantalums.

This choke only acts as an EMI filter on the power supply input, it's not a critical part at all. It's not in a timing circuit.