I love the debate going on here! 😁

Just a quick update from the lab: I had to replace the RAM on my main machine. It seems Dr. Fred’s latest experiment fried my memory modules. It also took a while because have you seen hardware prices lately? I refused to pay that much, I'd need to pawn the family stamp collection just to afford new sticks! So, I ended up just scavenging the RAM from a donor machine I had lying around.

On the bright side, I used the downtime to think about features. I decided to implement Genre and Publisher/Developer filtering to the launcher.
So, in addition to alphabetical, rating and favourites, you can now filter specifically for "FPS" to rip and tear, or pull up everything by "id Software" or "Sierra" instantly. I think this adds a lot of utility without cluttering the interface, I want to keep the HUD as clean as possible so you don't feel like you're playing with a screen full of status bars.

The code is almost complete. I need to update the docs and doing some final testing. I'll upload the new release likely before this week ends.

Any chance of getting a convertor from Launchbox for MS-DOS Special Edition 2.0? I spent some time working with it and then found out it has a limit of somewhere around 338 games. A conversion from this format to yours especially if you have a higher maximum number of records?

https://forums.launchbox-app.com/files/file/9 … pecial-edition/

Here is my data file for examination:

Thanks @kahuna for your effort you're putting in this very useful tool! 😀

What about having a scrollable list instead of navigating through pages?
Maybe even with mouse support for hitting a scrollbar.

crusher wrote on Yesterday, 07:52:

Thanks @kahuna for your effort you're putting in this very useful tool! 😀

What about having a scrollable list instead of navigating through pages?
Maybe even with mouse support for hitting a scrollbar.

You've pretty much re-created Launchbox 2.0 at that point haha, oh well since that project has basically been abandoned I guess it's time for a new one!

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 08:26:

You've pretty much re-created Launchbox 2.0 at that point haha, oh well since that project has basically been abandoned I guess it's time for a new one!

For me this one looks way better than Launchbox DOS-Edition as this looks like DOS Shell or Basic or old Norton Software.
I don't like the look af that ones.

Shagittarius wrote on Yesterday, 06:05:

Any chance of getting a convertor from Launchbox for MS-DOS Special Edition 2.0? I spent some time working with it and then found out it has a limit of somewhere around 338 games. A conversion from this format to yours especially if you have a higher maximum number of records? [...]

Looking at the structure, a converter is definitely feasible.
The format is clean enough that we can parse those tags (---GENRE---, etc.). Since GROG uses a standardized CSV, we might have to drop specific fields like ---YEAR--- or ---STATUS---, or we could just append them to the 'Notes' field so you don't lose that info.

Quick question regarding the format: Since I haven't used that software, is it safe to assume the entry structure you posted is standard for everyone? Specifically, is the example file something generic, or has it been customized to match your own preferences? I just need to be sure we’re building something generic, useful for everyone.

Regarding limits: G.R.O.G. doesn't have a hard-coded limit like 338 games. The only limit is your available RAM (Extended Memory), and since the menu exits completely before launching a game, using more RAM for the menu won't hurt your gaming performance.
As a rule of thumb, for a list of 4,000 games with all metadata fully populated, the menu would need about 4MB of RAM to load. If you have a standard 8MB or 16MB stick in your retro rig, you are good to go!
Moreover, according to MobyGames, there are a little over 8,000 games released for DOS, that will mean roughly 8MB of RAM will be needed to list the entire collection of DOS games.
I understand there are people that prefer to have absolutely everything. Personally, my DOS game list contains around 300 selected titles, and they are plenty!

crusher wrote on Yesterday, 07:52:

Thanks @kahuna for your effort you're putting in this very useful tool! 😀
What about having a scrollable list instead of navigating through pages?
Maybe even with mouse support for hitting a scrollbar.

That’s a cool idea! Right now the engine is built strictly around pages to keep things fast and simple. Moving to a continuous scrolling viewport (and adding mouse interrupts) would require a pretty big rewrite of the rendering code. I’ll add it to the wishlist for a future major version, but for now, I’m sticking to pages to get this update out.
In total honesty, browsing in blocks of 17 games using the arrow keys feels very smooth and snappy to me. Plus, now that we have filters for Genre and Publisher, you have even more ways to narrow down a massive collection and get to the games you really want to play, rather than just scrolling endlessly!

kahuna wrote on Yesterday, 19:22:

Quick question regarding the format: Since I haven't used that software, is it safe to assume the entry structure you posted is standard for everyone? Specifically, is the example file something generic, or has it been customized to match your own preferences? I just need to be sure we’re building something generic, useful for everyone.

The format is static, there are no custom fields. The biggest difference is that GROG uses a single executable target whereas LaunchBOX stores a multiline script for each game that it essentially executes as a batch file. The lines which have the drive letter, the CD command then the game command - that is the standard line set that LaunchBox fills into the run script but anything that can be in a batch file can be in the run script if customised by the user. My scripts have a bunch of commands for loading CDs and changing modes for example.

The only space saving launchbox does is that it doesn't store empty fields, so any example file used for building a conversion map would need to have all possible fields filled in so they appear in the source data.

Given the fundamental difference between how GROG and LaunchBox executes items, it may not be possible to have a conversion script that keeps everything. You'd also need to be somewhat intelligent about detecting what is a drive, folder and exectution target as there's no guarantee they will be on specific lines or in a specific order.

kahuna wrote on Yesterday, 19:22:

Regarding limits: G.R.O.G. doesn't have a hard-coded limit like 338 games. The only limit is your available RAM (Extended Memory), and since the menu exits completely before launching a game, using more RAM for the menu won't hurt your gaming performance.

Launchbox also doesn't have any hard coded limits, but it doesn't use EMS/XMS so the limit is what can fit in conventional memory (somewhere between 300 and 400 items) - Which brings up the question, if your game database is larger than conventional memory and requires EMS/XMS but you have to boot into conventional memory only mode for compatibility with some items, how does GROG react in this scenario?

All of these suggestions are taking on a bit of a "feature-creep" product, which is just what we should not have here. We don't need cover art, MD5 checksums, and other kludgy stuff which will needlessly bloat this very lean and mean program. Although, I certainly do agree that an easy way to edit the .CSV files should be paramount.

What you've done so far is absolutely exceptional -- and uses a simple and elegant interface. I'm very impressed. Thanks so much.

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]The format is static, there are no custom fields. The biggest difference is that GROG uses a single executable target whereas LaunchBOX stores a multiline script for each game that it essentially executes as a batch file [...]

Thanks for the insight on the file structure! That confirms what I suspected.

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]Given the fundamental difference between how GROG and LaunchBox executes items, it may not be possible to have a conversion script that keeps everything[...]

Ahem... 😉
Does this list look familiar, @Shagittarius ??

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]how does GROG react in this scenario?

Good question. GROG is compiled with DJGPP, so it runs in Protected Mode and requires a DPMI host (like the included CWSDPMI.EXE). This means it does require Extended Memory to launch.
However, this isn't usually a problem for compatibility because GROG unloads itself completely from memory before launching a game. So, you can boot with HIMEM.SYS (giving GROG the XMS it needs), and when you launch a game, the menu vanishes, leaving the game with the full 600KB+ of Conventional Memory it likely needs.

zyzzle wrote on Yesterday, 23:49:

All of these suggestions are taking on a bit of a "feature-creep" product, which is just what we should not have here. We don't need cover art, MD5 checksums, and other kludgy stuff which will needlessly bloat this very lean and mean program. Although, I certainly do agree that an easy way to edit the .CSV files should be paramount.
What you've done so far is absolutely exceptional -- and uses a simple and elegant interface. I'm very impressed. Thanks so much.

I hear you loud and clear! Don't worry, I am 100% agreed on the "Lean and Mean" philosophy.
The main launcher will remain exactly as it is: a fast, text-based executable with zero bloat. No cover art, no hasing, no slow databases. Just a CSV and your games.
Thanks for the kind words on the interface! Keeping it simple and elegant is exactly the goal.

kahuna wrote on Today, 00:51:

Thanks for the insight on the file structure! That confirms what I suspected. […]
Show full quote

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]The format is static, there are no custom fields. The biggest difference is that GROG uses a single executable target whereas LaunchBOX stores a multiline script for each game that it essentially executes as a batch file [...]

Thanks for the insight on the file structure! That confirms what I suspected.

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]Given the fundamental difference between how GROG and LaunchBox executes items, it may not be possible to have a conversion script that keeps everything[...]

Ahem... 😉
Does this list look familiar, @Shagittarius ??

The attachment lb2grog1.png is no longer available

The attachment lb2grog2.png is no longer available

NeoG_ wrote on Yesterday, 21:23:

[...]how does GROG react in this scenario?

Good question. GROG is compiled with DJGPP, so it runs in Protected Mode and requires a DPMI host (like the included CWSDPMI.EXE). This means it does require Extended Memory to launch.
However, this isn't usually a problem for compatibility because GROG unloads itself completely from memory before launching a game. So, you can boot with HIMEM.SYS (giving GROG the XMS it needs), and when you launch a game, the menu vanishes, leaving the game with the full 600KB+ of Conventional Memory it likely needs.

zyzzle wrote on Yesterday, 23:49:

All of these suggestions are taking on a bit of a "feature-creep" product, which is just what we should not have here. We don't need cover art, MD5 checksums, and other kludgy stuff which will needlessly bloat this very lean and mean program. Although, I certainly do agree that an easy way to edit the .CSV files should be paramount.
What you've done so far is absolutely exceptional -- and uses a simple and elegant interface. I'm very impressed. Thanks so much.

I hear you loud and clear! Don't worry, I am 100% agreed on the "Lean and Mean" philosophy.
The main launcher will remain exactly as it is: a fast, text-based executable with zero bloat. No cover art, no hasing, no slow databases. Just a CSV and your games.
Thanks for the kind words on the interface! Keeping it simple and elegant is exactly the goal.

Looking good there, those do seem to be my list of games! Im in a bit of a busy day today but I will get right on checking into the questions you asked me as soon as I have some time. Sorry!

kahuna wrote on Today, 00:51:

Ahem... 😉

Nice work, that should get most people up and running quickly

What I meant by keep everything is the additional lines that may be added to the game launch script which could be somthing like (and I don't mean use me as an example, the launch script is a freeform text entry box)

1Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
2---GENRE---Strategy
3---SERIES---Warcraft
4---DEVELOPER---Blizzard
5---PUBLISHER---Davidson & Associates
6---YEAR---1995
7---STATUS---Working
8REM Mount relevant disc image
9%MOUNT% "WARCRAFT II.CUE"
10REM Load audio mixer settings
11%MIXLOAD% WAR2
12REM Set MIDI mode
13%GM%
14REM Set CPU Speed
15%PENTIUMH%
16
17C:
18CD \DOSGAME\WAR2
19WAR2.EXE
20
21REM Reset system cofiguration
22%RESET%
23---CONFIG---
24REM Load mixer settings
25%MIXLOAD% WAR2
26REM Set MIDI mode
27%GM%
28REM Set CPU Speed
29%PENTIUMH%
30
31C:
32CD \DOSGAME\WAR2
33SETUP.EXE
34
35REM Reset system cofiguration
36%RESET%

The %COMMANDS% are not Launchbox specific, just DOS environment variables I set up to make configuring the system for games easier. At some point I also moved the reset command out of the scripts and modified the launchbox batch file to call %RESET% after every game so I don't have to put it in manually.

Really it's my own fault for not putting it into batch files in the game directory in the first place, it was short sighted to use the LaunchBox script box to do it since it's not portable at all. Just seemed a lot easier at the time.

Shagittarius wrote on Today, 01:13:

Looking good there, those do seem to be my list of games! Im in a bit of a busy day today but I will get right on checking into the questions you asked me as soon as I have some time. Sorry!

All good, I think we got it covered!

NeoG_ wrote on Today, 02:20:

Nice work, that should get most people up and running quickly [...]
What I meant by keep everything is the additional lines that may be added to the game launch script which could be somthing like (and I don't mean use me as an example, the launch script is a freeform text entry box)
Really it's my own fault for not putting it into batch files in the game directory in the first place, it was short sighted to use the LaunchBox script box to do it since it's not portable at all. Just seemed a lot easier at the time.

Yeah, I personally use the batch script approach for exactly that reason. For games that require specific parameters (like choosing MT-32 vs OPL) or mounting ISOs, I just create a local LAUNCH.BAT in the game folder. That way, the launcher entry remains clean and the configuration is portable.
In GROG, you actually have two choices for those complex setups. You can stick with the batch method I mentioned above, simply pointing the executable entry to your "LAUNCH.BAT". Alternatively, you can use GROG's native 'Modules' system to handle things like mounting without needing a separate batch file, e.g., you can just use the command mount_iso:game.iso directly in the modules column.

Haha this always goes without failing.

- Here's a nifty , fast, 0 memory footprint launcher for MS-DOS

Oh wow, amazing!
...Needs cover arts and icons! BGM Music - no wait, a built-in MP3 Player! Wheel and lightgun support! Automatic ISO creation and automatic metadata download! Built-in Hex editor! Network support, a screensaver and mail client, Minesweeper and Solitaire! 😁 😁 😁

Looks really cool kahuna, I'll be following this with curiosity and will probably give it a go at some point. My folders and games are neatly organized, and I mostly consider DOS "browsing" part of my nostalgia kick, but a few builds where I have plenty of games, this could actually come in handy. I for one love the light & simple approach that immediately make it stand out!

kahuna wrote on Yesterday, 19:22:

That’s a cool idea! Right now the engine is built strictly around pages to keep things fast and simple. Moving to a continuous scrolling viewport (and adding mouse interrupts) would require a pretty big rewrite of the rendering code. I’ll add it to the wishlist for a future major version, but for now, I’m sticking to pages to get this update out.
In total honesty, browsing in blocks of 17 games using the arrow keys feels very smooth and snappy to me. Plus, now that we have filters for Genre and Publisher, you have even more ways to narrow down a massive collection and get to the games you really want to play, rather than just scrolling endlessly!

Thanks for adding a scrollable list to the wish list.
I understand that it is build around pages and that would need a totally rewrite.

I agree that scrolling a longer list maybe is slower than switching through pages.
Just an idea to make a scrollable list comfartable too.
You could build in a feature when pressing letter "S" on keyboard, it jumps to the first entry in the list beginning with "S".

Hi everyone,

I’m happy to announce that G.R.O.G. v2.0 is now available!
This update is all about making the frontend self-sufficient as you can now manage your collection from the comfort of the DOS prompt 😁

New Features in v2.0:

• Full In-App Editing: The most requested feature. You can now Add (A) and Edit (E) games directly from the menu. The new 4-page editor allows you to change paths, update metadata and write notes without ever exiting to the command line.
• Expanded Browsing: You can now filter/browse by Genre and Publisher, in addition to the standard Title, Rating and Favourites views.
• LB2GROG Converter: Included in the zip is a new command-line tool to help import text-based game lists from LaunchBox into G.R.O.G. format.
• UI & Stability: Improved text handling for long paths, a cleaner Info screen, and general stability fixes.

Because of the new sorting features, the database structure has changed. GAMES.CSV now requires 21 columns. If you are upgrading from v1.5, your old CSV will not work directly.
As a recommendation, open the new GAMES.XLSX template included in the archive and copy-paste your existing data into it to ensure the columns align with the new Genre/Publisher fields.

Download: https://codeberg.org/jjmarcos/grog/releases
Extensive docs here: https://codeberg.org/jjmarcos/grog

As always, this version contains 0% battery acid, but now includes 100% more panache. Let me know if you run into any issues!

kahuna wrote on Today, 07:44:

As always, this version contains 0% battery acid, but now includes 100% more panache.

But suspiciously not labelled as animal cruelty free

Maybe it contains dolphins🤔

Boohyaka wrote on Today, 06:36:

Haha this always goes without failing. - Here's a nifty , fast, 0 memory footprint launcher for MS-DOS Oh wow, amazing! ...Needs […]
Show full quote

Haha this always goes without failing.
- Here's a nifty , fast, 0 memory footprint launcher for MS-DOS
Oh wow, amazing!
...Needs cover arts and icons! BGM Music - no wait, a built-in MP3 Player! Wheel and lightgun support! Automatic ISO creation and automatic metadata download! Built-in Hex editor! Network support, a screensaver and mail client, Minesweeper and Solitaire! 😁 😁 😁
Looks really cool kahuna, I'll be following this with curiosity and will probably give it a go at some point. My folders and games are neatly organized, and I mostly consider DOS "browsing" part of my nostalgia kick, but a few builds where I have plenty of games, this could actually come in handy. I for one love the light & simple approach that immediately make it stand out!

Haha, careful! I came here to launch games and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of RAM!
But seriously, thanks for the kind words! I definitely want to keep that "light & simple" vibe, so no built-in Minesweeper for now. Let me know how it runs on your larger builds!

NeoG_ wrote on Today, 07:55:

But suspiciously not labelled as animal cruelty free
Maybe it contains dolphins🤔

Psst! Don't worry. No dolphins were harmed, and the poodles at the Governor's mansion are just sleeping... deeply. 🤫

Thanks for this great version 2.0 😀
For me In-App Editing is ultra comfortable if you don't want to edit the Excel file on another computer and transfer the csv afterwards.