I'd be somewhat cautious with 700 series cards - they don't have perfect records for working with older motherboards. The 750 and 770 seem to be the worst offenders from what I've read, but I'd assume 760 and 780/Titan can have similar problems.

obobskivich wrote:

I'd be somewhat cautious with 700 series cards - they don't have perfect records for working with older motherboards. The 750 and 770 seem to be the worst offenders from what I've read, but I'd assume 760 and 780/Titan can have similar problems.

Ah, thanks for the info.

IIRC the latest motherboards that support Windows XP are intel 77 mobo - although it also depends on the manufacturer. If the 700 series has problems with intel 77, then it won't work well with WinXP.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

obobskivich wrote:

I'd be somewhat cautious with 700 series cards - they don't have perfect records for working with older motherboards. The 750 and 770 seem to be the worst offenders from what I've read, but I'd assume 760 and 780/Titan can have similar problems.

Ah, thanks for the info.

IIRC the latest motherboards that support Windows XP are intel 77 mobo - although it also depends on the manufacturer. If the 700 series has problems with intel 77, then it won't work well with WinXP.

Hmm, I'm not sold on the idea of keeping a Win XP box though, so I don't have that problem. 😊
Or maybe I do, just for a couple titles that really take full advantage of EAX HD.

Anyway I still have a GTX 470 which I don't think won't differ that much from a GTX 285 as to compatibility with older games. They're both post DX9 anyway.

The only potential advantage I could see for the GTX 285 with older games is that it has a wider range of drivers that it supports (both are still "current" for nVidia drivers, but the 285 has options for older drivers (pre-DX11) that the 470 won't be compatible with). I don't have the information/data to say if that would or wouldn't end up being a problem though - just food for thought more than anything else.

OTOH, at least for contemporary purposes, the support from here onward is definitely in favor of GTX 400 series, which is said to be ready for DX 12 once it's released. Meanwhile, EOL Windows driver support for GTX 200 series, 9xxx, 8xxx. So we can safely put the 285 off the "current" list 😀. Newer cards should also be able to play DX9/10 software as well since there's no feature that's tied to a fixed pipeline in the hardware to be broken/deprecated anymore (as in the case of pre-DX8/9). That's the nice thing about the evolution of GPUs into GPGPUs.

So we're left with possible glitches per specific titles, options for older drivers etc, which honestly I too am not really sure how that would impact our retro purposes... I guess KAN and I could (should?) do some testing. As far as I remember DX8 games have no problem running in Win7 64 with this card though. But older ones are more hit and miss.

archsan wrote:

OTOH, at least for contemporary purposes, the support from here onward is definitely in favor of GTX 400 series, which is said to be ready for DX 12 once it's released. Meanwhile, EOL Windows driver support for GTX 200 series, 9xxx, 8xxx. So we can safely put the 285 off the "current" list 😀. Newer cards should also be able to play DX9/10 software as well since there's no feature that's tied to a fixed pipeline in the hardware to be broken/deprecated anymore (as in the case of pre-DX8/9). That's the nice thing about the evolution of GPUs into GPGPUs.

So we're left with possible glitches per specific titles, options for older drivers etc, which honestly I too am not really sure how that would impact our retro purposes... I guess KAN and I could (should?) do some testing. As far as I remember DX8 games have no problem running in Win7 64 with this card though. But older ones are more hit and miss.

Release 340 is not released; current is 337.88. GeForce 8 and higher are supported under that (and subsequent releases up to 340; there will also probably be legacy builds as has been done with GeForce 6/7). As far as backwards compatibility, Windows 7 is indeed more likely to break things than GT200 to Fermi - I've never seen this with DX9 (yet?), but DX8 titles certainly can have problems with the newer OS (I can name at least a few). The post you linked does not say that GTX 400 series will support DX12 (it can't) - just that there will be software support, in keeping with Microsoft's backwards compatibility features implemented since DX11. If an application explicitly requires DX12 support, GTX 400 series will be ineligible (it's essentially marketing doublespeak on nVidia's part).

Not released yet, yes, that was an announcement/plan, so very likely this year it will eventually be EOL anyway for mainstream support.

The NVIDIA blog post? Yes, it says so...

NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families.

... as "Fermi" (which includes GTX 460/465/470/480 as well as 560/570/580) so yes it will support DirectX 12. GeForce 405 isn't Fermi though, therefore it belongs to the EOL list. GeForce GTX 4xx series however, has the same D3D/OpenGL/OpenCL version support as GTX 5xx.

As to DX8 games, I think at least I've tried Unreal II and NOLF2 which worked fine out of the box. Hmm, why don't we list the games to be tested while we're at it? What do you suggest, the ones that may have problems...?

obobskivich wrote:

The only potential advantage I could see for the GTX 285 with older games is that it has a wider range of drivers that it supports (both are still "current" for nVidia drivers, but the 285 has options for older drivers (pre-DX11) that the 470 won't be compatible with). I don't have the information/data to say if that would or wouldn't end up being a problem though - just food for thought more than anything else.

Spot on. Part of nVidia's backward incompatibility from the driver. Older cards have more options of (older) drivers, so they have greater potential to be backward compatible with older games.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Spot on. Part of nVidia's backward incompatibility from the driver. Older cards have more options of (older) drivers, so they have greater potential to be backward compatible with older games.

The Splinter Cell thread is a good example of this in action. 😀 I wouldn't be surprised in the least if there were other game/hardware combinations that also see this in action, but like I said - just food for thought.

Ah, yes, I'd play Splinter Cell in XP simply because of EAX Advanced HD.

But the question is, GTX 285 vs newer cards right? be it on XP or 7 ...

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Spot on. Part of nVidia's backward incompatibility from the driver. Older cards have more options of (older) drivers, so they have greater potential to be backward compatible with older games.

The Splinter Cell thread is a good example of this in action. 😀 I wouldn't be surprised in the least if there were other game/hardware combinations that also see this in action, but like I said - just food for thought.

With Tesla-generation card (well at least my GeForce 310M), I haven't found more than a few games that run problematic or otherwise won't run at all. In the flight sims community, Jane's World War 2 Fighters is a notorious example where the problem actually comes from newer drivers instead of newer cards per se.

(and it happened during the Detonator drivers era, so..... 🤣 )

archsan wrote:

As to DX8 games, I think at least I've tried Unreal II and NOLF2 which worked fine out of the box. Hmm, why don't we list the games to be tested while we're at it? What do you suggest, the ones that may have problems...?

Unpatched? Jane's WW2 Fighters and Crimson Skies come into mind, although for the latter, it turned out you have to turn off CSAA to keep the game from crashing at the main menu.

Considering the very few problems I've experienced, I think we can safely conclude that GeForce is better than Radeon in term of backward compatibility with old games? Which is too bad because Radeon cards have better image quality - more vibrant colors, better AA, etc - than that of GeForce cards.

archsan wrote:

Ah, yes, I'd play Splinter Cell in XP simply because of EAX Advanced HD.

But the question is, GTX 285 vs newer cards right? be it on XP or 7 ...

Make it XP. 7 has its place (certainly better than 8 ), but with XP you don't need to mess around with the registry to choose software synthesizer other than the crappy Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth - or to run Neverwinter Nights 1.

Not to mention Microsoft totally castrates EAX since Windows 7 and upwards. 😵

Update: I have settled a partial refund with the seller. Originally she offered me to return the item, and she'll refund everything; the item's price, the S/H cost, and the return S/H cost. But frankly, I really don't have the time for it - not to mention all the hassles.

As such, I asked her a partial refund calculated by the price (and S/H cost) of another GTX 280 on ebay.

Here's what I told her:

How about partial refund? So I keep the card and you give me a partial refund to compensate for my loss. Because it's not only about the money, it's about all the hassles of sending the card back and buying another card, etc, which shouldn't have happened..

As I have told you, if you had named the item correctly, I would have bought this GTX 280 instead instead of yours:
http://tinyurl.com/mtb6jz9

I would have paid the appropriate amount for a GTX 280 card (as opposed to a GTX 285), and you would have kept your card, so it would have been a win-win solution. By the way, even if I didn't buy your card on the first place, some other buyer may have bought your card if you priced them more appropriately.

The price of that card is $95.99, and the S/H cost, which is lower than yours, is $32.29. The import charges he charges to his customer is $23.74, which is also lower than yours, but I'll let it pass.

On the other hand, the price of your card is $150,and the S/H cost is $54.21. So the total (ignoring import charges) is $204.21, which I don't mind spending on a truly new (even though open box) GTX 285, mind you.

If I bought that GTX 280 instead, I would have spend a total of US $128.28. Again, ignoring the import charges which is lower than yours.

So I think it'll only fair if you give me a partial refund of ($204.21 - $128.28) = US $75.93.

I'm already ignoring your higher import charges in this calculation, mind you. I'll still lose about nine dollars, but like I said, I'll let it pass.

If send me a partial refund of the US $75.93 based on the calculation above, then I'll call it a day. I'll close the case I've opened on ebay for this matter, and I'll even give you a positive feedback.
,
A GTX 280 is hotter and consumes more power than a GTX 285, so I'll have more troubles in cooling my system (a mini-ITX case for a legacy Windows XP system). But I can live with the card if the price is more appropriate.

Well she agreed, and the partial refund is being processed through ebay's resolution center. Not quite a bad deal, eh? I'm being lenient this time, because it's clear that the case is the result of pure carelessness instead of malicious intention. She's also quite cooperative.

(Mind you, I have seen ebay sellers giving multiple names to their items, so that the said items would appear on search result intended for other items.)

Case closed, then. Of course, it doesn't have to stop us from discussing old 3D games on new video cards. 😉

Congrats...Glad you got that partial refund. ..you deserved it...that makes the price you got the card for much better now.

retrofanatic wrote:

Congrats...Glad you got that partial refund. ..you deserved it...that makes the price you got the card for much better now.

+1. It also sounds like you saved both you and her a lot of hassle having to deal with returning, refunding, reselling, rebuying, etc new cards. 😀

obobskivich wrote:

retrofanatic wrote:

Congrats...Glad you got that partial refund. ..you deserved it...that makes the price you got the card for much better now.

+1. It also sounds like you saved both you and her a lot of hassle having to deal with returning, refunding, reselling, rebuying, etc new cards. 😀

Thanks, folks. 😀

Well, let just say that I successfully rolled my speech and barter skill, thanks to my high charisma. But I would've never been able to do it without the help and information given by the dwellers of the Vault-Vogons.

Guess what game I'm currently playing now? 😉

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Guess what game I'm currently playing now? 😉

Tekken 3? 🤣 😜

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Guess what game I'm currently playing now? 😉

Tekken 3? 🤣 😜

Nobody guessed Pac Man? 🤣

Although I am late to this thread I got to say that after a refund it is indeed a nice price! I have owned both the 280 and 285 cards back then, the 285 was a bit faster with less nm. But it's not a big deal IMHO, stuff that won't run on the 280 won't run well on the 285 as well.
I am pretty sure Kreshna is playing DOOM atm, he berserk'ed that case 🤣 🤣 🤣

keropi wrote:

Although I am late to this thread I got to say that after a refund it is indeed a nice price! I have owned both the 280 and 285 cards back then, the 285 was a bit faster with less nm. But it's not a big deal IMHO, stuff that won't run on the 280 won't run well on the 285 as well.
I am pretty sure Kreshna is playing DOOM atm, he berserk'ed that case 🤣 🤣 🤣

That's because Doom doesn't allow you to talk your way out! 🤣