Still do not understand that anal legal ropewalking. Who will come to get you for a 30+ year old dos game. 😂

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-10-05, 16:19:

Who will come to get you for a 30+ year old dos game. 😂

Tell that to the legal people who demanded to take down a non-playable demo retrieved from MicroProse FTP, because this allegedly infringed their company's (newly acquired) copyright to the game.

That was just some years ago. And yes, the demo was taken down, because they threatened litigation and damages.

Afterthought: Also there's a matter of personal honesty and integrity. If you're offering a collection of free games on a bona fide basis, I have all the right to expect that it will contain free games, willingly given away for no charge by the owners. It's not like I "stole" anything from whoever holds copyright to the problematic games that I listed when I downloaded the CD ISO, or that the act of downloading resulted in some kind of financial loss to them, but the inclusion of said games contradicts the original intention and is only indicative of not researching each of those games diligently enough.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-10-05, 16:19:

Who will come to get you for a 30+ year old dos game. 😂

Reminds me of some news from 5 years ago. ;)

https://www.pcmag.com/news/adobe-sends-dmca-t … -acrobat-reader

Edit: The whole thing was probably automated.
I don’t find any further news, nothing about consequences etc.

PS: Some shareware authors seem to regret that they didn't include a deadline in their registration forms.
Because they didn't imagine back then that they would possibly be asked for registration for decades to come,
long after they've god rid of their development tools etc.
That's the other side of the coin, so to say.

Shareware authors had different expectations about how their software would be shared as well. For instance, some of the early epic Megagames titles came with a txt file that described restrictive parameters under which you could share their game, including that if it was to be included on a compilation CD then you could include no more than 2 or 3 epic games total on that CD. They were clearly trying to avoid the concept of a shovelware CD coming out with every single one of their shareware games on it... Other authors wanted publishers to ask permission or give them a royalty, or include the authors information in the packaging if the shareware was to be included in a commercial disk/disc. But of course, it seems many publishers did not pay that stuff any attention and if the title indicated somewhere that it was shareware, it would be slapped onto a disc and sold.

In additon, many shareware authors violated the shareware concept.
Shareware with a nag screen, a time limit or an otherwise limited functionality was "crippleware" or a demo, rather than shareware.
True shareware was fully functional, often came with a registration form.
So users could test a game or application extensively before buying.
The idea was to support small, independent developers in terms of distribution.
Rather than providing well known game studios or publishers a cheap way of distribution ("a free ride" so to say).

Edit: I forgot to mention. Shareware also came on floppies, not only CD-ROMs.
My shareware floppies contained a catalogue or a bunch of text files, explaining shareware/freeware/public domain.
And postcard ware, of course. 😉

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-06, 12:03:

Shareware authors had different expectations about how their software would be shared as well. For instance, some of the early epic Megagames titles came with a txt file that described restrictive parameters under which you could share their game, including that if it was to be included on a compilation CD then you could include no more than 2 or 3 epic games total on that CD. They were clearly trying to avoid the concept of a shovelware CD coming out with every single one of their shareware games on it... Other authors wanted publishers to ask permission or give them a royalty, or include the authors information in the packaging if the shareware was to be included in a commercial disk/disc.

I've seen the clause about asking permission for inclusion on a CD in many licenses for shareware games, and I think this was largely because at least up to mid-90s shareware games and retail commercial games were two different markets altogether. These clauses very clearly mention the CDs being sold in a "retail environment", which was not the target market of shareware games:

Distribution of the Program on CD-ROM's […]
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Distribution of the Program on CD-ROM's

Shareware vendors may not distribute this program on CD-Rom without
obtaining explicit written permission from Epic MegaGames, Inc.

Distribution in a Retail Environment:

Shareware vendors may not distribute this program in a retail
environment (in stores or otherwise) without obtaining explicit written
permission from Epic MegaGames, Inc.

Distribution via Subscriptions, "Disk-of-the-Month", Magazine "Cover
Disks" and "Cover CD's":

Any party wishing to distribute this Program via subscriptions, "disk-of-the-
month", magazine "cover disks" and/or "cover CD's" must obtain Epic's
written permission, in addition to complying with the General Terms and
Conditions set forth above and other applicable terms and conditions. Please
contact us and we'll be glad to consider granting permission to you in
appropriate cases.

[*] If you want to distribute it in a retail location (such as on a rack), or as part of a hardware or software bundle, or […]
Show full quote

[*] If you want to distribute it in a retail location (such as
on a rack), or as part of a hardware or software bundle, or
on CD-ROM you must get PRIOR signed written permission from
Apogee. Apogee reserves its right to withhold permission.

I can only assume that they did not want retail sellers of these CDs to effectively profit from truncated versions of their games, since a buyer of a retail game generally expected to receive a complete product, not what is generally a big demo or a part of the game, with the rest to be ordered by mail or phone.

In the case of shareware vendors, I guess it must be the relative cost of producing a CD compared to writing game files to a floppy, since shareware vendors basically charged for the physical medium on which a shareware game was distributed, while the shareware version itself was always free. Again, in many cases the license or VENDOR.DOC included a clause stating the maximum price they could charge for a floppy version of the shareware episode.

I don't think that Epic MegaGames or any other shareware publisher could have anything against a CD full of their games per se, exactly because the shareware versions were given away for free. They were likely more concerned that people who bought these CDs would never actually order the full games and be content with the shareware episodes, perhaps not even expecting there was anything more to it.

At least, this is my understanding of how the shareware market worked back then.

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-06, 12:51:

In additon, many shareware authors violated the shareware concept. Shareware with a nag screen, a time limit or an otherwise lim […]
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In additon, many shareware authors violated the shareware concept.
Shareware with a nag screen, a time limit or an otherwise limited functionality was "crippleware" or a demo, rather than shareware.
True shareware was fully functional, often came with a registration form.
So users could test a game or application extensively before buying.
The idea was to support small, independent developers in terms of distribution.

There were at least several shareware models, and what you call "true shareware" (which is essentially the full product with no limitations except a note that urges you to register) is but one of them. Scott Miller came up with the episodic shareware model precisely because the above worked well for programmes that you use every day, but not for games. And yet there were other shareware publishers like Webfoot Technologies or Homebrew Software, whose many shareware games are just demos with a limited number of levels (often between two and five), so not even living up to Scott's idea of shareware episodes.

The shareware model was often self-represented as "try before you buy", but this formula does not necessarily mean the user should get the full product without any limitations. At the end of the day, the main difference was that shareware programmes were offered at lower prices thanks to lower production costs, but had to be ordered/registered via mail or otherwise, as opposed to boxed software that you could purchase in a store, usually at a notably higher price. So the difference between a shareware version and a commercial demo is basically just that, whether you could get the full product in a retail software store or not.

MrFlibble wrote on 2025-10-05, 11:02:

Apologies for bumping the topic, but I just downloaded the freeware CD to look at the installer, and I have to say a few things […]
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Apologies for bumping the topic, but I just downloaded the freeware CD to look at the installer, and I have to say a few things about the games offered too!

gaffa2002 wrote on 2021-08-25, 19:01:

Each game can be installed by running INSTALL.EXE and selecting the games you want to install, note that the installer is meant to run under DOS.

Did you write your own installer, or did you use a template from a third-party installer kit?

Now onto the games, the freeware disc includes several that are unfortunately not freeware and/or have limitations on redistribution:

1. Igor: Objective Uikokahonia -- there were indeed rumours about this game allegedly becoming freeware, but the admin of dosgames.com researched this matter and contacted the developers, who replied that the game is not freeware:

Hello DOSGAMES team! Thank you very much for contacting us and for verifying the information before proceeding, it means a lot t […]
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Hello DOSGAMES team! Thank you very much for contacting us and for
verifying the information before proceeding, it means a lot to us 😀 I
inform you that currently Igor: Objective Uikokahonia does not present a
freeware license, although in some sites it is listed as such. We hope
we have helped you by confirming it, thank you and have a nice day!

2. Battles of Destiny -- while Holistic Design had indeed offered this game for free from their website, recently they backpedalled on this, so the game is now sold at GOG.

3. Amulets & Armor -- the download from their site includes the file license.txt which says:

Amulets & Armor (executable) is released for free. No sale or distribution is allowed of the
game except by Exiguus Entertainment or those who have received written permission to distribute
the game.

So it's okay to include on the CD if you obtained such permission from them I guess.

4. Paratrooper -- I don't remember this ever being released as freeware, and it's not even a DOS game, it's a PC Booter game, so the file which you offer is an "unofficial" conversion into DOS format.

There's a perfectly free DOS clone of Paratrooper from PLBM Games called Ack-Ack Attack, which was originally a shareware game but now completely freeware since 2006.

5. MAD TV -- here I cannot blame you, since you were likely mislead by the English Wikipedia article. However, in German wikipedia it is stated that the free release was temporary:

Von 2001 bis 2002 wurden sowohl Mad TV als auch Mad TV 2 zeitweise (bis zur Insolvenz der Greenwood-Entertainment-Muttergesellschaft Phenomedia) als Freeware angeboten.

"From 2001 to 2002 Mad TV and then Mad TV 2 were temporarily given away as freeware until the bankruptcy of Phenomedia, the parent company of Greenwood Entertainment."

You can also see proof in the news section at PC Welt here in the news about Mad TV 2:

Erst im Oktober war der Spieleklassiker "MadTV" kostenlos zum Download angeboten worden. Mittlerweile ist das Spiel allerdings nicht mehr verfügbar.

"In October (2001) the classic game Mad TV was offered as a free download. Meanwhile the game is now no longer available."

6. Death Rally -- while the Windows port is indeed free, the registered DOS version was never officially offered as freeware. The version that you have included obviously comes from an abandonware website and even advertises such in the included text file.

7. Ishido -- a few years back I was in contact with the author Ian Gilman, who told me that while he may offer the game as a free download from his website, the rights belong to different people so it's up to them to decide if the game may be redistributed or not.

8. Blizzard's freeware games -- I'm not sure if it was okay to include those if you have not asked for permission first. The same goes for the Ultima games.

9. Cinemaware's TV Sports games -- these were at some point available from Cinemaware's website, but only to registered users, and have apparently been pulled since around 2014. While the current status of these games appears unclear (in spite of being listed on Wikipedia), plain common sense suggests to play safe and not redistribute these titles.

10. Elite Plus -- considering the rather complicated story between David Braben and Ian Bell, perhaps it would also be prudent to not assume that this game is simply freeware. Unless, of course, you received permission from Ian Bell.

On a side note, I would also advise against offering the "no-CD" version of Daggerfall. At least when running the game in DOSBox or another emulator, there's no reason not to do so as intended, i.e. by mounting a virtual CD. The game is already unstable enough as it is, and using the no-CD trick with edited Z.CFG might introduce further complications. At any rate, Daggerfall is a game big enough to warrant a separate release, outside of a compilation CD.

On another side note, the use of PKUNZIP is also a bit questionable, I suppose you could easily replace that with alternatives such as Info-ZIP (assuming that the installer routine is customizable enough for that)? ESPECIALLY since you have included a registered version of PKUNZIP which says:

This is a registered version of PKUNZIP and is only for use on those machine(s) that it is licensed for. […]
Show full quote

This is a registered version of PKUNZIP and is only for use on those
machine(s) that it is licensed for.

This version is NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED as Shareware.

PKWARE, Inc
9025 N. Deerwood Drive
Brown Deer, WI 53223

Hey, thanks for bringing that topic back and for the suggestions.
The installer was written by myself, I even released it here in the forum so other people can use however they want: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=1118225

As for the games, I really don't remember where I got each one from, but very likely I went to abandonware sites to search for some files as my concern was mostly with the game legal status rather than the source of the download itself. And its not very realistic to expect that regular people like us will be able to get a proper response from companies like Blizzard or Epic.
Personally, I don't really care if the freeware CD is infringing copyright laws or not in its current state because the preservation aspect of it feels far more important to me.
FYI: The “research” for finding which games to add was just a brainstorm we had some years ago: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=80575

Anyway, if you want to create another collection, or even update this one, please feel free to do so. I can help you replacing PKUNZIP with something free if needed (should not be much of a problem to do that as that part is written in a batch file, not part of the program itself).

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-07, 21:13:

The installer was written by myself, I even released it here in the forum so other people can use however they want: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=1118225

That's lovely, thanks a lot! I didn't realise that you'd made a separate topic for it!

I see it can insert separators in the list, this is excellent! A very big unstructured list can become unwieldy, and compilation CDs from the 90s (of those "100/200/etc.+ games" varieties) often offered genre groupings for whatever they included. Well done!

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-07, 21:13:

Anyway, if you want to create another collection, or even update this one, please feel free to do so. I can help you replacing PKUNZIP with something free if needed (should not be much of a problem to do that as that part is written in a batch file, not part of the program itself).

Oh yes, I just took a look, and indeed there should be no trouble replacing PKUNZIP with a version of Info-ZIP UnZip (version 5.32 should work nicely in DOSBox). Generally, your installer is highly configurable, thanks!

I think that it should even be possible to hook self-extracting installers instead of calling an unzip utility, like installers made by DOS RAR?

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-07, 21:13:

FYI: The “research” for finding which games to add was just a brainstorm we had some years ago: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=80575

Well, I just felt obliged to inform you that Igor and MadTV are actually not freeware (the latter, perhaps, not freely redistribitable), whether (or how) you act on this information is up to you.

MrFlibble wrote on 2025-10-09, 09:44:

I think that it should even be possible to hook self-extracting installers instead of calling an unzip utility, like installers made by DOS RAR?

I see no issues with that, the program basically runs the INSTALL.BAT file, sending some parameters, which are:

INSTALLATION_DIR: The game's installation directory (i.e C:\GAMES)
ZIP_NAME: The zip filename without the zip extension (i.e MK2)
SUBFOLDER_NAME: Subfolder that may be used to install game (i.e APPS)

So technically you can modify it to call any program you want, as long as you don't need any extra parameter.

MrFlibble wrote on 2025-10-09, 09:44:

Well, I just felt obliged to inform you that Igor and MadTV are actually not freeware (the latter, perhaps, not freely redistribitable), whether (or how) you act on this information is up to you.

No worries! It's just that I gave up making the "Ultimate" freeware collection simply because each game has it's own complicated terms for distribution (i.e. only the company can distribute it but then they go away with the website, or require an account), or only specific versions were released as freeware (like Death Rally, where only windows version was released even though they are the very same game), not to mention companies backpedaling on their decisions for making a game free. And things got even worse nowadays because companies want you to subscribe to their software instead of just selling it to you, basically using any kind of software, old or new, became a giant gray area now 🙁.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-09, 14:08:

No worries! It's just that I gave up making the "Ultimate" freeware collection simply because each game has it's own complicated terms for distribution (i.e. only the company can distribute it but then they go away with the website, or require an account), or only specific versions were released as freeware (like Death Rally, where only windows version was released even though they are the very same game), not to mention companies backpedaling on their decisions for making a game free. And things got even worse nowadays because companies want you to subscribe to their software instead of just selling it to you, basically using any kind of software, old or new, became a giant gray area now 🙁.

That's why I've mostly shifted my attentions towards truly free (and often open source) games that were such from the start, there are many very good games out there (and even more which I'm not even aware of yet because of my over-focus on DOS titles). In this part of the gaming world, there's a very low chance of the author going "wait, I changed my mind and the game is no longer free", and even less so for some random company to suddenly pop up and be like "hey, I just bought the rights to this, so stop stealing from me you filthy pirate!"

Here's some really cool examples of free DOS games that I'm talking about (hope you don't mind if I hijack your thread a little):

• Crystal Stacker
• Gene Splicing
• The Little Pixy 2
• Anzu Castle Gracula
• Vitetris
• 'Ghini Run
• The Orb of Dilaaria
• Alien Assault II
• Avalon
• Betrayed Alliance: Book I
• Berušky
• Beats of Rage (disregard that is says it's a demo; it's the full game)
• Billabong Racers
• Capt'n Squiddy's Bootleg Push-Push
• HitBlock
• Crillion '97
• Chikie Egg
• The Continuing Adventures of Cyberbox
• Deluxe Snake
• Zmiy
• Devolution: Global Warming
• Earth Shaker
• Firecrow
• Bubble Jeopardy
• Fruit Land
• Happyland Adventures
• Heroes
• Frenetic Plus
• Jaguar GR1: Strike Force Delta Zulu
• Chemical Warfare (technically shareware, but it's a complete game)
• MegaBreakout
• Mirror Magic
• Mysterious Song
• Klondike Pro/Gold
• PANGG!
• Panda 2

MrFlibble wrote on 2025-10-09, 19:01:

That's why I've mostly shifted my attentions towards truly free (and often open source) games that were such from the start, the […]
Show full quote

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-09, 14:08:

No worries! It's just that I gave up making the "Ultimate" freeware collection simply because each game has it's own complicated terms for distribution (i.e. only the company can distribute it but then they go away with the website, or require an account), or only specific versions were released as freeware (like Death Rally, where only windows version was released even though they are the very same game), not to mention companies backpedaling on their decisions for making a game free. And things got even worse nowadays because companies want you to subscribe to their software instead of just selling it to you, basically using any kind of software, old or new, became a giant gray area now 🙁.

That's why I've mostly shifted my attentions towards truly free (and often open source) games that were such from the start, there are many very good games out there (and even more which I'm not even aware of yet because of my over-focus on DOS titles). In this part of the gaming world, there's a very low chance of the author going "wait, I changed my mind and the game is no longer free", and even less so for some random company to suddenly pop up and be like "hey, I just bought the rights to this, so stop stealing from me you filthy pirate!"

Here's some really cool examples of free DOS games that I'm talking about (hope you don't mind if I hijack your thread a little):

• Crystal Stacker
• Gene Splicing
• The Little Pixy 2
• Anzu Castle Gracula
• Vitetris
• 'Ghini Run
• The Orb of Dilaaria
• Alien Assault II
• Avalon
• Betrayed Alliance: Book I
• Berušky
• Beats of Rage (disregard that is says it's a demo; it's the full game)
• Billabong Racers
• Capt'n Squiddy's Bootleg Push-Push
• HitBlock
• Crillion '97
• Chikie Egg
• The Continuing Adventures of Cyberbox
• Deluxe Snake
• Zmiy
• Devolution: Global Warming
• Earth Shaker
• Firecrow
• Bubble Jeopardy
• Fruit Land
• Happyland Adventures
• Heroes
• Frenetic Plus
• Jaguar GR1: Strike Force Delta Zulu
• Chemical Warfare (technically shareware, but it's a complete game)
• MegaBreakout
• Mirror Magic
• Mysterious Song
• Klondike Pro/Gold
• PANGG!
• Panda 2

Nice list! But I see that Anzu Castle Gracula is available for sale on Steam… do you see my point? A game, even if released for free initially, may become more relevant at any moment and become “commercially viable” and start being sold at some point (Minecraft comes to mind). Thats why I gave up creating a freeware collection in favor of shareware/demos.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-12, 18:16:

Nice list! But I see that Anzu Castle Gracula is available for sale on Steam… do you see my point?

No, I don't. You can still grab the "unregistered version" for free from the itch.io page and no one will scowl at you. The Steam release and the itch.io name your own price thing are for those who want to thank the author for this really good game by "registering".

It's a bit like the non-Apogee model of the olden days, except that the registration is purely voluntary, no trial period, limitations or anything. Play as much as you want, for free. So in fact, Anzu Castle Gracula is the exact opposite of everything being commercialised. And this is yet another reason why it is on the list that I made.

There are actually a few other projects that you can purchase from Steam but also get legit for free elsewhere. It's an easy way to thank the authors with a penny, especially if other options like PayPal are not easily available to some.

MrFlibble wrote on Yesterday, 11:43:

No, I don't. You can still grab the "unregistered version" for free from the itch.io page and no one will scowl at you. The Stea […]
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gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-10-12, 18:16:

Nice list! But I see that Anzu Castle Gracula is available for sale on Steam… do you see my point?

No, I don't. You can still grab the "unregistered version" for free from the itch.io page and no one will scowl at you. The Steam release and the itch.io name your own price thing are for those who want to thank the author for this really good game by "registering".

It's a bit like the non-Apogee model of the olden days, except that the registration is purely voluntary, no trial period, limitations or anything. Play as much as you want, for free. So in fact, Anzu Castle Gracula is the exact opposite of everything being commercialised. And this is yet another reason why it is on the list that I made.

There are actually a few other projects that you can purchase from Steam but also get legit for free elsewhere. It's an easy way to thank the authors with a penny, especially if other options like PayPal are not easily available to some.

So the shareware and registered have the same content, sorry, didn't notice that.
But still it feels like a grey area to me (now more on the ethical side rather than the legal one)... one thing is for someone to download the shareware from the intended site where you can read the creator's notes and be properly asked to buy the registered version before opting for the shareware one, another thing is to distribute the shareware version as part of a collection without having the user reading through any information the authors wants the user to. Adding such titles to a collection disc IMHO would require at least prior permission with each author.