Disruptor wrote on 2023-12-22, 01:23:

You may try to disable sync negotiation in BIOS' device configuration. Just for testing purposes - to find termination faults - […]
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You may try to disable sync negotiation in BIOS' device configuration.
Just for testing purposes - to find termination faults - you even may try to not use that terminator then.

Adaptecs surface test just transfers commands - you won't find termination faults with it.

Does your Quantum Atlas IV U-160 disk have a 68pin or 80pin (SCA) interface?
What's the status of parity in your controller?

I haven't noticed any problem when an unused high byte on a wide cable is floating.

Every setting is the default. I'll check up on sync negotiation and parity tonight, if I can find the time.

Horun wrote on 2023-12-22, 03:23:

Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE […]
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Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE setting (pins 13-14).
What type of termination are you using at the end of your scsi cable ? It cannot be a passive one for scsi that new, it must be an "active" termination and the controller or drive needs to supply the Term power.
some reference https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/maxtor/en … _iv_jumpers.pdf
As for seeing the drives in Win9x... if it has NTFS partitions you will not see anything or be able to access them from 98 (without an add-on strictly to read ntfs).
You may need to use Diskpart or similar to view what partitions are on the drives, Fdisk is somewhat useless for that if sco, linux, freebsd was installed with special parms...
Be careful if you use diskpart...

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller.

The terminator is pictured here download/file.php?id=181217&mode=view but I don't have termination power enabled on the drives. One jumper has fallen off one of the drives, it may have been on b termination power. Yet another thing to try.

But wouldn't fdisk see an unknown partition no matter the type?

I know these type of adapters from vintage Compaq servers.
There were different part Nos for adapters attached to devices and controllers.
Check the 123456-001 part no, if there is one, to prove your adapter is of the controller type.

SE jumper is worth a try, 2940AU is an SE controller, while the drives might expect LVD.
Anything else sounds like a termination issue to me .

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 05:52:

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller. […]
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Horun wrote on 2023-12-22, 03:23:

Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE […]
Show full quote

Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE setting (pins 13-14).
What type of termination are you using at the end of your scsi cable ? It cannot be a passive one for scsi that new, it must be an "active" termination and the controller or drive needs to supply the Term power.
some reference https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/maxtor/en … _iv_jumpers.pdf
As for seeing the drives in Win9x... if it has NTFS partitions you will not see anything or be able to access them from 98 (without an add-on strictly to read ntfs).
You may need to use Diskpart or similar to view what partitions are on the drives, Fdisk is somewhat useless for that if sco, linux, freebsd was installed with special parms...
Be careful if you use diskpart...

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller.

The terminator is pictured here download/file.php?id=181217&mode=view but I don't have termination power enabled on the drives. One jumper has fallen off one of the drives, it may have been on b termination power. Yet another thing to try.

But wouldn't fdisk see an unknown partition no matter the type?

Does fdisk sees the drives or not ? ie can you select the drives in fdisk ?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 10:18:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 05:52:

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller. […]
Show full quote

Horun wrote on 2023-12-22, 03:23:

Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE […]
Show full quote

Hmmm. Since they have the ID jumpers the drives are standard LVD/SE wide drives, not SCA. Make sure there is a jumper on the SE setting (pins 13-14).
What type of termination are you using at the end of your scsi cable ? It cannot be a passive one for scsi that new, it must be an "active" termination and the controller or drive needs to supply the Term power.
some reference https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/maxtor/en … _iv_jumpers.pdf
As for seeing the drives in Win9x... if it has NTFS partitions you will not see anything or be able to access them from 98 (without an add-on strictly to read ntfs).
You may need to use Diskpart or similar to view what partitions are on the drives, Fdisk is somewhat useless for that if sco, linux, freebsd was installed with special parms...
Be careful if you use diskpart...

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller.

The terminator is pictured here download/file.php?id=181217&mode=view but I don't have termination power enabled on the drives. One jumper has fallen off one of the drives, it may have been on b termination power. Yet another thing to try.

But wouldn't fdisk see an unknown partition no matter the type?

Does fdisk sees the drives or not ? ie can you select the drives in fdisk ?

I can't ..

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 11:37:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 10:18:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 05:52:

Yes, they're 68 on LVD/SE devices. SE jumper is not set, but again, they've been running on another controller.

The terminator is pictured here download/file.php?id=181217&mode=view but I don't have termination power enabled on the drives. One jumper has fallen off one of the drives, it may have been on b termination power. Yet another thing to try.

But wouldn't fdisk see an unknown partition no matter the type?

Does fdisk sees the drives or not ? ie can you select the drives in fdisk ?

I can't ..

Can you try loading aspi8DOS.sys and aspidisk.sys from config.sys and then see if fdisk allows you to select the disks ?

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 05:36:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-12-21, 23:52:

So the controller can see both disks in the ID scan?
But when you try to access the disks in the BIOS utility you cant do anything with them?

Yes, both disks are visible and both disks can run the verification, but not format.

The install an OS and see if they can be seen there.

Have you got a Windows 2000 CD?

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-12-22, 14:26:

Have you got a Windows 2000 CD?

Yes, but no IDE CD-ROM drive at home 🤣 Wonder if I can do like I did with W98 and install from a secondary partition on the IDE ...?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 11:42:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 11:37:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 10:18:

Does fdisk sees the drives or not ? ie can you select the drives in fdisk ?

I can't ..

Can you try loading aspi8DOS.sys and aspidisk.sys from config.sys and then see if fdisk allows you to select the disks ?

You're challenging my talents now 🤣 Is there a tutorial?

[Edit] Doesn't seem necessary anyways ...

I was WRONG! I actually CAN se the disk from fdisk ... I was just confused about the tabbing/carriage returns in the fdisk setup.

To be continued ...

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

Then I tried removing the terminator and moving the drive to last connector on the cable. This time the drive wasn't even detected by SCSI BIOS

Also enabling or disabling controller termination made no difference.

Then I found that I actually COULD see the drives in FDISK - apparently it's been too long since I've used that. Both have now had their non-DOS partitions removed and created new extended DOS partitions (just for the test of it - I'm not going to actively use these drives in this build). And now, formatting the drives from within Win98SE 😀

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 20:01:

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings: […]
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Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

THose are the proper settings. You cannot low leverl format most LVD/SE scsi drives using the BIOS, is like trying to low level format a SATA drive, the drive will not allow it 😀

Then I tried removing the terminator and moving the drive to last connector on the cable. This time the drive wasn't even detected by SCSI BIOS

Also enabling or disabling controller termination made no difference.

Then I found that I actually COULD see the drives in FDISK - apparently it's been too long since I've used that. Both have now had their non-DOS partitions removed and created new extended DOS partitions (just for the test of it - I'm not going to actively use these drives in this build). And now, formatting the drives from within Win98SE 😀

Great !

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 20:01:

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings: […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

Then I tried removing the terminator and moving the drive to last connector on the cable. This time the drive wasn't even detected by SCSI BIOS

Also enabling or disabling controller termination made no difference.

Then I found that I actually COULD see the drives in FDISK - apparently it's been too long since I've used that. Both have now had their non-DOS partitions removed and created new extended DOS partitions (just for the test of it - I'm not going to actively use these drives in this build). And now, formatting the drives from within Win98SE 😀

Ok, Great !
so no more problems with this I guess ?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 22:12:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 20:01:

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings: […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

Then I tried removing the terminator and moving the drive to last connector on the cable. This time the drive wasn't even detected by SCSI BIOS

Also enabling or disabling controller termination made no difference.

Then I found that I actually COULD see the drives in FDISK - apparently it's been too long since I've used that. Both have now had their non-DOS partitions removed and created new extended DOS partitions (just for the test of it - I'm not going to actively use these drives in this build). And now, formatting the drives from within Win98SE 😀

Ok, Great !
so no more problems with this I guess ?

Apparently working as they should, making my ears bleed, though, but kind of cool copying great amounts of data from one scsi drive to another, and Windows 98 still being fully responsive 😀

Horun wrote on 2023-12-22, 21:51:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 20:01:

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings: […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

THose are the proper settings. You cannot low leverl format most LVD/SE scsi drives using the BIOS, is like trying to low level format a SATA drive, the drive will not allow it 😀

Maybe I was naive in thinking that that function would work, I don't know, but since it's there? 🤣

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 23:15:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-22, 22:12:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-12-22, 20:01:

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings: […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the input - I tried the following settings:

1. Force SE
2. Power to terminator
3. Force SE and Power to terminator

None of these made a difference in the Adaptec BIOS - I couldn't for the love of anything format it from there.

Then I tried removing the terminator and moving the drive to last connector on the cable. This time the drive wasn't even detected by SCSI BIOS

Also enabling or disabling controller termination made no difference.

Then I found that I actually COULD see the drives in FDISK - apparently it's been too long since I've used that. Both have now had their non-DOS partitions removed and created new extended DOS partitions (just for the test of it - I'm not going to actively use these drives in this build). And now, formatting the drives from within Win98SE 😀

Ok, Great !
so no more problems with this I guess ?

Apparently working as they should, making my ears bleed, though, but kind of cool copying great amounts of data from one scsi drive to another, and Windows 98 still being fully responsive 😀

If you really want the good noise, go for some of those 10k or 15k rpm drives. 😁

I don't know what you expected from the format but you have to realize that the scsi bios does not know anything about filesystems, so it doesn't compare in any way to it.
if you want to dig a little deeper, go for a linux install and have fun poking around with tools in the sg3_utils package. though beware, there are possibilities to actually brick the drives in a way that it's close to improbable for most users to debrick it.

Not naive just misunderstanding what its for.

Not all disks should have a low level format performed on them. Maybe your disks are one of those.
Its not going to format the disk in the way Windows format.com will. It will initialise the disk, clear meta data and write zeros to the disk. You will still have to format the disk with Format.com to get a FAT32 format after you run fdisk.

You have to do this when you create an array on their controllers, it can take several days.

Given the thing with operating system awareness makes great sense for the controller not being able to do a format, but as I understood it, it would be a low level format, i.e. "flipping bits" on all sectors.

I must admit that the spin-up sound is cool, sounds really powerful and angry 🤣 but after that, it gets unpleasant 😉

IMO, Never ever doing the format drive from the scsi controller, if the format progress is interrupted, your drive will be toasted with the medium error message even if you confidence that it not before the format.
I brick some of my old scsi disk thinking that the scsi format from controller is behave like normal format in pc and reset the pc which brick the disk 🙁