Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-10, 18:04:

Aren't there Win3.1 drivers for TNT2 cards?

Not stable ones, as far as I'm aware. Just some beta versions that may or may not work.

This driver package works on my Riva TNT2. While there are some font spacing issues, the driver has yet to crash my system.

So... I just bought something on eBay. Not exactly what I had in mind, perhaps, but... this is a Dell D300, PII 300 (that seems to think it's a 233 in the photo, but they also have a photo of the CPU and it is a 300 - something misconfigured because the CMOS battery is dead?), the photo shows what appears to be an AWE 64 Value/OEM/something, an STB video card (likely a RIVA 128?), not clear if there's a working hard drive in it. Looks cleanish enough.

And I love that because it's a Dell, things like BIOS updates are still available.

A Gotek floppy adapter and an IDE to... CF or SD (CF is better, isn't it...? although I have so many SD cards in a drawer...) adapter later, and maybe a network card, and I think this hits most of my requirements?

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-24, 00:14:

(CF is better, isn't it...? although I have so many SD cards in a drawer...)

Because CF is IDE with just a different form factor so an adapter is passive i.e. only provides power and wirings. An SD to IDE adapter requires a controller chip to convert inbound and outbound signals.

So... just trying to think ahead now that I have a system on the way - what do I need for this project?
1) CF cards/CF adapter, although I admit SD is tempting despite being a bad idea...
2) Gotek floppy drive emulator. I guess I can't order that until I know what colour I need - probably yellowed beige?
3) a network card. Or... do I need a network card?

If you're using a CF card (or SD), you don't really need a network card. Unless you want to network it for something like gaming.

Okay, so... how do I find a decent CF card if I'm going to go CF? Amazon seems full of knock-off Sandisks...

I checked my drawer, I have an 8 meg CF, a 32 meg CF, one or two 256s, and one 512. The youngest is probably close to 20 years old; the oldest is 25. So other than maybe the 512, nothing I have is really an option... (meanwhile, my plentiful supply of SD cards is tempting...)

Also, price per gig of CF is... high...

I've been using Verbatim branded cards for a few years now. Used to be able to get them brand new from Amazon, but unfortunately looks like they aren't being sold anymore. There are some on Ebay.

Which is the other option, just buying from Ebay. I've bought both NOS cards (typically genuine Sandisk cards) or bulk lots of random used cards.

A 512MB card would certainly be an option in a pinch. It's a bit small for a Pentium system, but you could install a decent number of DOS games on it.

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-26, 01:07:

I checked my drawer, I have an 8 meg CF, a 32 meg CF, one or two 256s, and one 512. The youngest is probably close to 20 years old; the oldest is 25. So other than maybe the 512, nothing I have is really an option... (meanwhile, my plentiful supply of SD cards is tempting...)

512 MB should be quite sufficient for all but the last batch of most demanding, 3D-accelerated DOS games. IIRC 540 MB was the mainstream HDD capacity around 1994H2-1995H1. FAT16 of DOS 6 or earlier can't handle partitions larger than 2 GB anyway. If you want to stuff as many CD-ROM ISO as possible then you might want to run virtual CD under Win98SE / DOS 7.1 with another larger CF card or even a vintage HDD (as long as it works).

As for CF cards, try brick-and-mortar stores of used items, photographic equipment and electronics in particular, as well as e-waste facilities. Many old cameras arrive at e-waste with memory cards inside, just like many old computers with HDD inside. To be honest, most people don't even know how to remove an HDD from a retired or faulty computer.

If none of these options are available in your vicinity, maybe you could acquire an SD-IDE adapter instead, especially if you could not find a reliable and/or economical source of CF cards online.

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-26, 01:07:

Okay, so... how do I find a decent CF card if I'm going to go CF? Amazon seems full of knock-off Sandisks...

I checked my drawer, I have an 8 meg CF, a 32 meg CF, one or two 256s, and one 512. The youngest is probably close to 20 years old; the oldest is 25. So other than maybe the 512, nothing I have is really an option... (meanwhile, my plentiful supply of SD cards is tempting...)

Also, price per gig of CF is... high...

I've had pretty good luck with the generic 512MB blue from China -- You never bump your head on the 1024 cylinder/16 head limit with older BIOS and they are effectively the same speed as the brand names when running in PIO modes. They are a little smaller than I'd like for a Win9x installation, but they are about 10% slower on UDMA2 (PIIX4 South Bridge) but about ~10% faster on the older WDMA modes frequently used on Socket 5 and early socket 7 / slot 1 systems (PIIX3 South Bridge).

That is probably what I received when I bought a cheap 5 pack of 512s from Amazon, though they had imitation Sandisk pattern label. I have not used them very intensively yet, but so far no quirks, aren't super fast, but aren't super slow. I would probably buy the same ones again if I need more.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-10-29, 13:22:

That is probably what I received when I bought a cheap 5 pack of 512s from Amazon, though they had imitation Sandisk pattern label. I have not used them very intensively yet, but so far no quirks, aren't super fast, but aren't super slow. I would probably buy the same ones again if I need more.

My initial reaction was to be concerned about their reliability... but... this is a retro system, I guess who cares about reliability? Even if you have a super-optimized configuration of something, you can just put the CF card in a modern machine (wait... do any of my modern machines still have CF readers?? or is it all SD?), image it, 512 megs is a trivial amount of storage, at least for me (I think my NAS has 24TB of total usable storage...)...

VivienM wrote on 2024-10-29, 21:32:

My initial reaction was to be concerned about their reliability... but... this is a retro system, I guess who cares about reliability? Even if you have a super-optimized configuration of something, you can just put the CF card in a modern machine (wait... do any of my modern machines still have CF readers?? or is it all SD?), image it, 512 megs is a trivial amount of storage, at least for me (I think my NAS has 24TB of total usable storage...)...

As a photographer I've got four external multi-card readers (three USB 3.0 and one USB 2.0) and one dual-head (USB 3.0 type A + type C) SD/TF reader. The old USB 2.0 reader is really handy as any BIOS with USB bootup support can recognize it as an external HDD. Also very useful when you find a half-destroyed digital camera at e-waste still has a working memory card in an obsolete form factor (Memory Stick series, SmartMedia, xD) inside.

Well... it arrived. My guess as to the video card (Riva 128) was correct. Ordered a Gotek, now I guess I need to swap out the CR2032 and figure out what I'm going to do for storage...

Okay, CR2032 swapped. I have the processor speed set back at 300MHz.

It's funny, in a way. eBay listing had all the indications that this was a 300, but due to a bad CMOS battery, it was booting up as either a 133 or 233 so that's what they listed it as.

Oh, and interesting bonus - there was a Win95 OSR2 CD in the CD-ROM drive. Those... aren't bootable..., are they?

They are but the BIOS needs to support CD boot, which shouldn't be a problem if the boot order is set so that CD comes before HDD.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-10-24, 22:48:

If you're using a CF card (or SD), you don't really need a network card. Unless you want to network it for something like gaming.

Meh. Yes, CF cards are swappable, but if you're using it as an HDD replacement you don't want to keep swapping it in and out, and indeed it might be buried deep in the machine (or sticking out the back of it). I'd thoroughly recommend getting a simple Ethernet card working and running mTCP FTP server as prime means of file exchange. So much easier than messing around with cards.

dionb wrote on 2024-11-11, 10:40:

Meh. Yes, CF cards are swappable, but if you're using it as an HDD replacement you don't want to keep swapping it in and out, and indeed it might be buried deep in the machine (or sticking out the back of it).

I got myself a StarTech front loading CF to IDE adapter for just that reason.

It slots neatly into the vacant 3.5" bay below the floppy drive, which makes it super easy to access and swap CF cards. The only thing you need to do beforehand is to power down the PC of course, but otherwise, it's as simple as putting in a floppy disk.

dionb wrote on 2024-11-11, 10:40:

Meh. Yes, CF cards are swappable, but if you're using it as an HDD replacement you don't want to keep swapping it in and out, and indeed it might be buried deep in the machine (or sticking out the back of it). I'd thoroughly recommend getting a simple Ethernet card working and running mTCP FTP server as prime means of file exchange. So much easier than messing around with cards.

I always use rear slot adapters and it's trivial to remove and re-insert a CF card that way. Or as Joseph_Joestar noted, there are front drive bay adapters as well.

Swappable CF cards is also handy if one wants to do multiple OS installs.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-11-11, 14:32:

dionb wrote on 2024-11-11, 10:40:

Meh. Yes, CF cards are swappable, but if you're using it as an HDD replacement you don't want to keep swapping it in and out, and indeed it might be buried deep in the machine (or sticking out the back of it). I'd thoroughly recommend getting a simple Ethernet card working and running mTCP FTP server as prime means of file exchange. So much easier than messing around with cards.

I always use rear slot adapters and it's trivial to remove and re-insert a CF card that way. Or as Joseph_Joestar noted, there are front drive bay adapters as well.

Swappable CF cards is already really handy if one wants to do multiple OS installs.

I hate messing around behind cases unless absolutely unavoidable. I have my cables all worked away which means it's pretty tight back there. Front bay adapters would be great, but not been able to find any locally other than 3D printed brackets which of course don't fit my adapters...

dionb wrote on 2024-11-11, 17:08:

I hate messing around behind cases unless absolutely unavoidable. I have my cables all worked away which means it's pretty tight back there. Front bay adapters would be great, but not been able to find any locally other than 3D printed brackets which of course don't fit my adapters...

True, this depends on one's individual setup. I have mine setup to make the rear of the cases easily accessible for maintenance, CF card swapping, etc.