soviet conscript wrote:

chinny22 wrote:

CPU cycles? meh you have 2 CPU'S! 😀
Decided on an OS yet?

I'm curious about your final OS choice as well. I have a very similar build getting put together and I cant decide between NT 4 or W2k. I'm guessing nt would be less of a resource drain but 2k look a lot more user friendly at least driver wise.

is mid 90's windows/DOS compatibility any worse on w2k vs NT?

I'm still trying to decide whether to go for NT4, Windows 2000, or XP Pro. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.

NT4 would be the fastest and smoothest, infact I expect it would fly along, with the spec of machine. I was a bit concerned about drivers, but it looks like my Highpoint RocketRAID has NT4 drivers available if required. And the rest of the hardware is also supported under NT4. This machine will be mainly used as an online games server, and maybe a bit of browsing and the occasional classic game. Only downsides... I'd probably have to use an ancient browser? And I guess some games from around '99 onwards would be a problem?

Win2000 would probably be best all-round, (if not quite as fast as NT4 on this machine). Again, I'd be limited on browsers perhaps? I think Firefox 12 is the limit from Mozilla on Win2000 without hacks? IE would be similarly ancient. Not sure about Chrome....

WinXP Pro... I'm still interested in seeing how this OS would run on this hardware 😀 .... Badly I expect! But the 1Gb EDO and the striped RAID array might help it along, and the drives I'm going to be using are pretty fast. I might well try XP initially, and if it runs like a snail, I'll probably go to Win2K next. Half the fun of a build like this is trying different things anyway 😀

Skyscraper wrote:

ODwilly wrote:

There are threads about using ATX psu with AT boards. Or you could order a new AT psu from an online retailer. Make sure the ATX psu you use has plenty of power on the +3.3 and +5 and also the -5 rail if you go that route
Edit: I bought one of these and it works great http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … N82E16817338010

This board is ATX 😉

Yes the board is ATX, though ODwilly nevertheless raises a good point, do I really want to be running by newly rebuilt PC every day on a 19-year old PSU ? 😕

TELVM wrote:

JohnnySL25A wrote:

... I am concerned about the old Astec 200W PSU that was with the case originally ...

Take pics of its guts and we'll assess quality and current state. There are Astecs 200W that were well built and still healthy after many years:

Yes that's a good idea. I'll take the PSU apart, give it a good clean, and see how it looks and upload some photos. It'll probably be into next week now, as some "real" work is looming this weekend. 😠 The PSU itself is 19 years old, although it was really only in use for the first three years or so. However when I got the machine, the insides of the tower were covered in plastic filings about an inch deep, and there was some in the PSU and everywhere else too, (caused by the cutting machines in the factory). It was a bit of a hostile environment for a PC to be in! 😲

I'm thinking I might feel happier swapping the PSU... possibly something decent with 300W or more, and -5V... Brand New would be preferable, or new / old stock....any suggestions??

This is the label on the old PSU :-

The memory has arrived today! 😀

They are 4 x Micron 256Mb 50n/s EDO ECC. Previously the machine had 4 x Compaq / Siemens 128Mb 50n/s EDO. The new modules are huge. Here's a comparison shot of the two sets of memory...

(The new ones are obviously on the right!)

This board is now maxed out on RAM, although the P-Pro 200 / 1Mb CPUs can apparently address / cache up to 4Gb. Real Star Trek stuff for 1997... 😲

Skyscraper wrote:

ODwilly wrote:

There are threads about using ATX psu with AT boards. Or you could order a new AT psu from an online retailer. Make sure the ATX psu you use has plenty of power on the +3.3 and +5 and also the -5 rail if you go that route
Edit: I bought one of these and it works great http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … N82E16817338010

This board is ATX 😉

Hahaha oh man I was tired yesterday and out of it 😊 the advice on the rails is still relevant at least.

Look for a new PSU that is the old ATX standard like 1.3

FSP Group's older power supplies were abundant here and were common in such machines. Their 300 Watt model was everywhere and is very solid, I have had several for over a decade and no matter how much abuse I give them they keep going, even after hours of drawing more than their rated current, they did not care.

Sometimes the were branded Power Man. They were a cheap re-badge of someone's old stock, they resemble SeaSonic internally, so maybe that is where they came from, possibly also Fortron. They weigh a metric tonne.

I have the AT version of that Astec one, interestingly it uses the exact same internals and has a switch on the end of the PS-ON wire as opposed to the regular way of doing things where the mains go to the switch.

I really like where your going with this, maxing out the RAM and all. Both my duel P3 boards only support 1GB and really don't use anywhere near all of it, but its cool! I went with Micron RAM as well (MT18LSDT3272DG) Big is beautiful they say.
What to do with a duel socket machine really is the biggest problem with them. Game wise they really aren't worth the hassle.

I quite like playing with server OS's, get them up and running just to see the difference including Exchange or whatever. I'm 1/2 way though rebuilding the Prolient 1600 with NT4 Terminal server which I found in a Comms room along with Citrix. Netware 3.12 is a personal favourite as well. NT3 will be interesting when I get round to it, None are much use as servers though 🙁

At this time, i'm also building up a PPro system. And on this rig, BeOS will be installed. In 1996/97/98 i was regularly working with BeOS. It is lightweight, quick and modern.
Maybe this OS is an option for you?

HighTreason wrote:

FSP Group's older power supplies were abundant here and were common in such machines. Their 300 Watt model was everywhere and is very solid, I have had several for over a decade and no matter how much abuse I give them they keep going, even after hours of drawing more than their rated current, they did not care.

Sometimes the were branded Power Man. They were a cheap re-badge of someone's old stock, they resemble SeaSonic internally, so maybe that is where they came from, possibly also Fortron. They weigh a metric tonne.

I have the AT version of that Astec one, interestingly it uses the exact same internals and has a switch on the end of the PS-ON wire as opposed to the regular way of doing things where the mains go to the switch.

Thanks HighTreason. I'll look out for an FSP group PSU. Preferably I'd like to find new / old-stock if possible. I'd also been thinking of going for one of the earlier CoolerMaster models, like their 385W unit.

Interesting you've also got an Astec PSU. I'd not seen one before until I started this..!

chinny22 wrote:

I really like where your going with this, maxing out the RAM and all. Both my duel P3 boards only support 1GB and really don't use anywhere near all of it, but its cool! I went with Micron RAM as well (MT18LSDT3272DG) Big is beautiful they say.
What to do with a duel socket machine really is the biggest problem with them. Game wise they really aren't worth the hassle.

I quite like playing with server OS's, get them up and running just to see the difference including Exchange or whatever. I'm 1/2 way though rebuilding the Prolient 1600 with NT4 Terminal server which I found in a Comms room along with Citrix. Netware 3.12 is a personal favourite as well. NT3 will be interesting when I get round to it, None are much use as servers though 🙁

I think whatever OS I choose, I'll probably end up tinkering ...and installing something else in a few months. But initially, I'm definitely leaning towards Windows 2000.

Me and some mates like to play Quake II Multi-Player Co-Op. So I was thinking of running the P-Pro as an on-line games server, with the console open on the screen next to me, whilst I play the game on one of my other systems nearby.

However the bigger spec I throw at it, I'm thinking it will enable the P-Pro to do more and varied stuff. (This was my reasoning behind the upgrade to 1Gb RAM, and the RAID 0 array I'll be using).

More components ordered today... graphics card (Matrox) and an additional hard-drive to enable me to run the RAID array.

Once they're here, all that's left to get will be a Voodoo 2, and possibly a better PSU. (Unless I decide to stay with the original Astec PSU).

Then I'll be starting to prep/restore the case itself.

Pics will follow when the parts arrive....

Just make sure it is an older model as they still make one and that new one has no -5V line. I can get the model number of mine if you like?

Corsair is also a good choice, possibly easier to find depending on where you are. The Astec supplies were used in AST branded systems. I don't know much about them.

Win2K should work fine, I used XP on a P2-266 just fine, so I don't see 2K struggling too much on a dual PPro 200 provided you don't try to do anything ridiculously demanding with it.

The hard-drives for this build are now both here. I have chosen Maxtor MaxLine III 250Gb. Not really an authentic mid/late 90's drive, but I couldn't really make use of something like a 4.3Gb drive in this PC... I want the PC to be a useable machine when it's finished.

I did however want to stay with P-ATA, (as S-ATA in a system like this would've seemed just that bit too new!)

The MaxLine was my favourite IDE HDD when I was working at the computer firm, and the MaxLine III was the final version in the series, before the product was dropped. They sat in Maxtor's range between the desktop DiamondMax parts, and the server-orientated Atlas drives. The MaxLine was designed as a kind of entry-level server / high-end workstation drive, (which I thought would be a good match with a server PC such as this). The MaxLine had an improved MTBF over the DiamondMax drives, thanks to the use of what Maxtor described as "premium components" within.

Having said all that, being over 10 years old I'm sure they'll both give me the Maxtor click-of-death as soon as I try to install anything 😀

I'm going to set them up as a RAID 0 striped array. I'm probably looking for trouble here, with a couple of ancient IDE Maxtors in a Stripe! 😵 ....but TBH data integrity etc is not really too much of a concern, this is going to be a fun PC for running game servers etc, if a drive dies I'll just replace it and do a rebuild, (and maybe try a different OS whilst I'm at it).

The drives are both 250Gb MaxLine III's. However one is a the earlier 7B250R0, and the other is the slightly later 7L250R0. Apparently the drives are functionally identical right down to firmware, just that the 7L250R0 is RoHS compliant whereas the 7B250R0 isn't RoHS, ....which implies that the older drive is full of deathly harmful chemicals 🤣

7B250R0 :- (The "poisonous" drive)

7L250R0 :- (The "planet friendly" drive)

Next up I've ordered an ASUS beige fronted DVD drive, and a new /old stock Microsoft PS/2 mouse, plus I've started restoring the chassis - pics will follow.

Rubs hands together and laughs maniacally. I like this build.

The drive with deathly chemicals will be the last one to die, you mark my words. RoHS compliance does not do anything good for the end user or the environment, it is a waste of time. Also, I have a very noisy Hitachi Deathstar drive which has been used heavily and is rocking on for fifteen years old... It still works flawlessly, so you never know, these might actually be problem free for quite a while. Then again, I don't think I've seen a working Maxtor for about three years now... Aside from the two rejected-rejects (You read that right) which are Nikimi labelled and in RAID0 without issue, though in a PII.

Good luck.

HighTreason wrote:

Rubs hands together and laughs maniacally. I like this build.

The drive with deathly chemicals will be the last one to die, you mark my words. RoHS compliance does not do anything good for the end user or the environment, it is a waste of time. Also, I have a very noisy Hitachi Deathstar drive which has been used heavily and is rocking on for fifteen years old... It still works flawlessly, so you never know, these might actually be problem free for quite a while. Then again, I don't think I've seen a working Maxtor for about three years now... Aside from the two rejected-rejects (You read that right) which are Nikimi labelled and in RAID0 without issue, though in a PII.

Good luck.

Yes it's probably down to luck really. One of these drives has been in my storage cupboard for about 10 years, and I can't remember it's history now. The other one I bought second-hand, the seller said he didn't know whether the drive still worked, and no longer had a motherboard with IDE ports to test it.... though I'm not too worried as it cost me virtually nothing. However, I think I'll be lucky under these circumstances if both drives are working flawlessly!

And I would agree with you - my money would be on the non-RoHS drive being OK, and the RoHS drive being most likely dead. I'm going to test both the drives when I get a moment.

Cooling Decision

I've got a couple of sets of Pentium Pro Socket 8 heatsinks, and have been trying to decide which pair are likely to provide the best cooling, and therefore which set use for this build...

The pair on the left are of unknown origin, but have a larger surface area when viewed from above (see pic below) :-

However the pair on the right (from an old Compaq server), are taller :-

The taller heatsinks from the Compaq server are also heavier, 150 grams each rather than 101 grams :-

So it's a question of surface area versus height and weight. With either set I'm intending to attach 80mm fans somehow. So, I'm currently leaning towards using the Compaq heatsinks, would you guys agree with this, or go for those lighter heatsinks that have the larger "footprint" ?

It's a guess really, as this old motherboard doesn't have any temperature monitoring in the BIOS, and I don't have a temperature probe either 😢

Those heatsinks are designed for server racks with large 120mm fans blowing air through the whole system. In fact the taller heatsinks are from compaq. Anyway, as long as you have good airflow you will be okay. But just for safety sake, a small quiet fan will do fine.

I'd go with the Compaq heatsinks as well, and a quiet 80mm fan for each.

JohnnySL25A wrote:

...So it's a question of surface area versus height and weight. With either set I'm intending to attach 80mm fans somehow. So, I'm currently leaning towards using the Compaq heatsinks, would you guys agree with this, or go for those lighter heatsinks that have the larger "footprint" ?

You need to be looking not only for bigger foot print, but also total surface area exposed to air flow. Just by looking at them, I can see that the Compaq ones (bigger, heavier, etc.) has more total surface area then the other ones. This might be a better choice.

JohnnySL25A wrote:

Having said all that, being over 10 years old I'm sure they'll both give me the Maxtor click-of-death as soon as I try to install anything 😀

In my experience Maxtor's one of the better ones for longevity. Have a DiamondMax Plus 7200rpm drive still rocking in my S7 desktop. It makes a racket, both seeking and from bearing whine... fluid bearings were a godsend for quiet PCs. I think it's dated 98 or 99. In the meantime I've had plenty of Seagates and IBMs fail.