appiah4 wrote:

The three of us should put together OS/2 Warp 3 or 4 PCs.. And this conversation should probably split off into an OS/2 discussion thred.. 🤣

My first ever retro rig was a 8-HDD 15 or 16-OS multiboot weirdo. It had both OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 🤣 (just out of curiosity and nostalgia)

😊

There's another memory manager called Memory ServerII from I-O Data.
The version for the PC-98 platform is easy to find on Yahoo auctions but a DOS/V version does exist.

1+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +
2| Memory Server II for DOS / V Ver 1.04 Supplemental Information |
3+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +
4
5  This document is about important information about this product.
6  Before use, please be sure to pass your eyes along with the manual.
7
8
9+ ------------------------------------------------- +
10| File structure |
11+ ------------------------------------------------- +
12
13    Memory Server II consists of the following files.
14
15    Directory \
16
17INSTALL.EXE Memory Server II Installer
18ED.EXE Simple editor for installer
19Logo data for IOLOGO.DAT installer
20MSLOGO.DAT ?
21README.TXT Supplementary information file (This file is)
22
23    Directory \ IOSPRO
24
25VMM 386. EXE Virtual Memory Manager
26VMM386.VXD VMM386.EXE VxD module for Windows
27DPMI32.EXE DPMI server
28LUMB.EXE UMB loader
29OPTUMB.EXE UMB optimization tool
30OPTUMB.INI OPTUMB.EXE configuration file
31MSTAT.EXE memory usage display command
32
33
34+ ------------------------------------------------- +
35| INSTALL.EXE Ver 1.03 |
36+ ------------------------------------------------- +
37
381. To install in an environment where you do not use EMS, select "Custom installation
39    Please select and set not to use EMS server.
40
412. Do not execute in Windows DOS compatible box.
42
433. If the EMS page frame can not be secured after installation, VMM 386 is included
44    It is not rare. In such a case, use / EMS (option of VMM 386. EXE)
45    Because it is necessary, add it with an editor etc., or run the installer again,
46    Please select "Custom installation" and make settings not to use EMS server.
47    Yes.
48
49
50+ ------------------------------------------------- +
51| VMM 386.EXE Ver 3.53 |
52+ ------------------------------------------------- +
53
541. / NOREF 67 switch is provided as a speeding up option. However, some
55    Because it may not operate properly with the utility (MSD etc.), use
56    Please be careful enough.
57
582. Some models of COMPAQ recognize only 16MB even if 16MB or more memory is installed
59    It may not be. In such a case, use the editor etc. for the / COUNT switch
60    Please add to it.

61
623. A memory of 64 MB or more is installed, and a memory space of 64 MB or more is protected memory and
63    If it is used, the / COUNT switch is necessary, so add it with an editor etc.
64    Thank you for your kind attention.
65
66
67+ ------------------------------------------------- +
68| DPMI 32. EXE Ver 1.03 |
69+ ------------------------------------------------- +
70
711. In an environment where DPMI function is provided by DPMI 32. EXE, Borland C ++ is normal
72    It does not work. When using Borland C ++, temporarily by DPMI 32 / OFF
73    Please prohibit DPMI or cancel resident status with DPMI 32 / R before using.
74
75
76+ ------------------------------------------------- +
77| OPTUMB.EXE Ver 1.02 |
78+ ------------------------------------------------- +
79
801. Do not execute in Windows DOS compatible box.
81
822. For models with resume function, do not use resume function when OPTUMB is executed
83    Please do.
84
853. On models with PC card slots, the PC card is unplugged when OPTUMB is executed
86    Please.
87
884. EMS may be unusable after UMB setting, such as when using a PC card.
89    Please confirm with MSTAT / E or MEM command etc after setting UMB.
90
915. Device file OPTUMB.INI does not operate properly if it resides in UMB
92    Representative of the driver and TSR are registered, and in both automatic / manual mode UMB
93    It is used to determine whether or not loading is possible.
94
95    It is not registered in this setting file "It will not work properly if it resides in UMB"
96    If you are using a device driver or TSR, set "Manual UMB setting"
97    Please set not to load the UMB.
98
996. In the UMB setting of OPTUMB, for safety reasons, F0000h - FFFFFh is set as the default in the UMB area
100    It is not set as. If you want to use this area as the UMB area, set the manual UMB
101    Please make "area change (add area of ??F0000h - FFFFFh)" by definition. However
102    If this area is set to the UMB area, some applications will operate normally
103    Please be careful as it may be gone.
104
105
106+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +
107| Memory Server II for DOS / V Version 1.04 Supplemental Information |
108| 1996.January.19 |
109| Issued I / O Data Equipment |
110| ? 920 Ishikawa prefecture Kanazawa city Sakurada Town 24 blocks 1 |
111| |
112| Copyright 1995-96 I-O DATA DEVICE, INC. All rights reserved.
113| This software and this document are protected by copyright law |
114Therefore, it is forbidden to copy, reproduce, reprint or modify without prior consent. |
115+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +

@jo22
OS/2 1.2 is installed on ? 286/386/486?

The first one. Picture was taken in PCem with IBM 5170 emulation beeing choosen (Quadtel BIOS). :)

Edit; lolo799, thanks for the information about Memory Server II, too! - Never heard of it it before.
I think it's really cool how we can do learn still a lot about vintage tech (or software) every day, here on Vogons.

Some screenshots of the Memory Server II installer and of the UMB Optimizer:

The output of the /? switch of the utilities:

1VMM 386 Virtual Memory Server Release 3.53
2Copyright (C) 1992-1995 I-O DATA DEVICE, INC. All rights reserved.
3
4Command format: vmm386 [/?] [/ I] [/ E | / NE] [/ X | / NX] [/ V | / NV]
5      /? Display help message
6      / I status indication
7      / E, / NE ON / OFF of EMS
8      / X, / NX ON / OFF of XMS
9      / V, / NV ON / OFF of VCPI

1DPMI32.EXE DPMI Server Version 1.03(DOS/V Version)
2
3  The available options are : 
4
5       /S=dd           Stream buffer size ( dd= 1..64)
6       /L=dddd         Number of LDT      ( dddd= 512..8192)
7       /X              Use XMS memory
8       /NX             Not use XMS memory
9       /V              Use VCPI memory
10       /NV             Not use VCPI memory
11       /U              Use UMB for stream buffer
12       /NU             Not use UMB
13       /ON             Activate DPMI
14       /OFF            Inactivate DPMI
15       /R              Remove from memory

1LUMB  UMB Loader  Version 2.01
2Copyright (C) 1992-95 I-O DATA DEVICE,INC. All rights reserved.
3
4Style-1  To display UMB information
5  LUMB [option]
6        /?              Quick reference.
7        /MAP            Display UMB map.
8        /I              Show UMB list.
9        /F              Show free UMB list.
10        /NOESC          Disable to use escape sequence
11
12Style-2  To load device driver on UMB
13  DEVICE=LUMB.EXE [options] [filename [parameters]]
14        /INFO               Display information during installing.
15        /M                  Load driver to conventional memory
16                                    if no UMB to install found.
17        /S=<Bytes Count>    Specify memory size reserved for driver.
18        /B=<Block No.>      Specify block number to load driver.
19
20Style-3  To load TSR program on UMB
21  LUMB [options] [filename [parameters]]
22        /INFO               Display information during installing.
23        /M                  Load driver to conventional memory
24                                    if no UMB found to install.
25        /S=<Bytes Count>    Specify memory size reserved for TSR.
26        /ENVLAST            Set environment area at highest UMB.
27        /ENVSIZE=<Byte Count>   Specify largest UMB size
28                                        to set environment at.
29
30NOTE
31        All value in "<>" needs hexadecimal.

And the output of mstat.exe:

1MSTAT  Memory Status  Version 2.21
2Copyright (C) 1992-95 I-O DATA DEVICE,INC. All rights reserved.
3
4Û Conventional Memory Information
5   Address         Size        ID      Name   
6  --------------------------------------------
7   0B8A-0F67    15840 03DE0h  0008  System Data
8    0B8B         5008 01390h          DEVICE=VMM386  
9    0CC4          208 000D0h          FILES
10    0CD1          272 00110h          FCBS
11    0CE2         8000 01F40h          BUFFERS
12    0ED6          464 001D0h          LASTDRIVE
13    0EF3         1872 00750h          STACKS
14   0F68-108E     4720 01270h  0F69  "COMMAND"
15   108F-1093       80 00050h  ----  Not in use
16   1094-10A4      272 00110h  0F69  Environment
17   10A5-10AA       96 00060h  ----  Not in use
18   10AB-12B3     8336 02090h  10AC  "DPMI32"
19   12B4-12BB      128 00080h  ----  Not in use
20   12BC-9FFF   578624 8D440h  ----  Not in use
21
22  Total Memory Size .................. 655360 bytes
23  Free Memory Size ................... 578928 bytes
24  Maximum Image Size to Load ......... 578608 bytes
25
26Û UMB Information
27@Not implemented UMB Function.
28
29Û EMS Information
30  Version ............................  4.0
31  Total Page Count ...................  945(15120 Kbytes)
32  Unallocated Page Count .............  934(14944 Kbytes)
33
34  Page Frame Segment Address ......... D000h
35  Mappable Physical Page Count ....... 4
36  Mappable Physical Address .......... D000h  D400h  D800h  DC00h  
37
38  Total Handles ...................... 64
39  Free Handles ....................... 61
40  Attribute Capability ............... Only Volatile Handles
41
42  Handle    Name          Pages        Attribute
43----------------------------------------------------
44       0                  0(    0 KB)  Volatile
45       1    XMS           0(    0 KB)  Volatile
46       2    VCPI         11(  176 KB)  Volatile
47
48Û XMS Information
49  XMS Version Number ................. 3.00
50  Driver Internal Revision Number .... 3.53
51  Entry Address of XMS Function ...... 0B8C:0430
52  HMA Status ......................... Not in Use
53  Largest Free EMB ................... 14688 Kbytes
54  Total Amount of Free EMB ........... 14688 Kbytes
55
56Û VCPI Information
57  Version ............................  1.00
58  Free 4K Page Count .................  3737
59
60Û DPMI Information

61  CPU ................................ 80486
62  Version ............................ 1.00
63  Supported API ...................... 32Bit
64  Size of private data area .......... 0 bytes
65  Entry address for protected mode ... 10BCh:0CBEh
66

Wow, thanks a lot for these pictures, lolo799! :D
IMHO, it looks quite polished and nice and tidy..
A bit like the GUIs of Towns OS or Human 68k from other platforms.

There are several alternatives to QEMM and 386max. Personally I had good results with Helix Netroom.

You can try Memory Commander too, but, unlike Netroom, I do not have good memories of it.

Hello,

Do you need to run Memmaker after a fresh install of DOS, but before installing Win98? Or, does the install of Win98 automatically optimize your memory for the best performance of Win98?

Never mind. Found the answer.

I know you found your answer, but Windows 9x does not make use of any DOS memory management utilities.

There were Qemm97 Versions for win9x!

I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the....

Then I remembered that the DOS menu wasn't available until DOS 6.
Now that I am a bit more aware of how to move things around into different memory and cut down to exactly what I want the configuration to do, it seems, at this point to me, that the different vendors are for the masses so they did not have to think of how programs are loaded into memory.

So I am not sure if there is really any difference other than the convenience of automation.

CraigAB69 wrote on 2022-12-30, 04:50:

I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the.... […]
Show full quote

I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the....

Then I remembered that the DOS menu wasn't available until DOS 6.
Now that I am a bit more aware of how to move things around into different memory and cut down to exactly what I want the configuration to do, it seems, at this point to me, that the different vendors are for the masses so they did not have to think of how programs are loaded into memory.

So I am not sure if there is really any difference other than the convenience of automation.

At least QEMM has major differences over EMM386 when it comes to getting a lot of conventional memory available.

The most notable one is the "stealth" mode feature which relocates ROMs away from upper memory to provide more UMB for loading more TSRs, it can introduce incompatibilities depending on the circumstances and I don't recommend that for beginners.

Another is DOS-Up, which can load COMMAND.COM and DOS resources (BUFFERS, FILES, etc.) into UMB. Being more useful with older DOS versions that didn't have these abilities out of the box.

I don't known about 386Max, but QEMM (v7 up) supports VME aka Enhanced V86 (that one feature Ryzen did mess up) .
So in theory, both performance and compatibility could be improved.

https://linustechtips.com/topic/779261-ryzen- … -vme-is-broken/

https://www.os2museum.com/wp/vme-broken-on-amd-ryzen/

http://www.rcollins.org/ddj/Jan98/Jan98.html

http://www.rcollins.org/articles/vme1/VME_Overview.html

PS: The source code of 386Max was released since this thread was created.

Edit: Helix Netroom, as mentioned by dieymir before, is an interesting alternative, too.
It uses a completely different approach:
Afaik, it tries to use modified drivers (if possible) and loads them past 1 MB border.
With lots of trickery, real-mode and protected-mode applications will still get access to them.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-30, 05:35:

At least QEMM has major differences over EMM386 when it comes to getting a lot of conventional memory available.

The most notable one is the "stealth" mode feature which relocates ROMs away from upper memory to provide more UMB for loading more TSRs, it can introduce incompatibilities depending on the circumstances and I don't recommend that for beginners.

Another is DOS-Up, which can load COMMAND.COM and DOS resources (BUFFERS, FILES, etc.) into UMB. Being more useful with older DOS versions that didn't have these abilities out of the box.

Thanks for that, I'll have a bit of a look at the Stealth and Dos-Up feature.

To be honest, though I am hesitant to put trust in things that may introduce weird incompatibilities and end up chasing faults that would otherwise not be there.
Is there an old Knowledgebase archived somewhere?

CraigAB69 wrote on 2022-12-30, 11:08:

Is there an old Knowledgebase archived somewhere?

There is a manual for version 7 on archive.org. It requires an account to "borrow" it and get access to all pages.

Apart from this, a boxed copy of QEMM comes with technotes and the manual in physical form.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-30, 13:31:

There is a manual for version 7 on archive.org. It requires an account to "borrow" it and get access to all pages.

Apart from this, a boxed copy of QEMM comes with technotes and the manual in physical form.

Thanks for that mate.
I luckily discovered that site some time ago. I usually find the book on Internet Archieve then try and locate a printed version. I prefer to read an actual book. But it is great for doing searches through texts.

But I was hoping Quaterdeck had a old KB like the MS one: https://www.pcjs.org/documents/books/mspl13/kb/ There is also one on GitHub.

Yea, I don't think Qemm 8 or 8.03, likes VirtualBox 7.0.4r154605.

I was getting exceptions when exiting Norton Commander 5.5. It seemed to go away in NC 5.51 but every now and then something would flash up.
Then in Win 3.11 I would get GPF's and when exiting Windows back to DOS it would just become unresponsive.

But then again 386MAX did strange stuff as well.

I wonder if the testing primarily just revolves around MS memory management.

Maybe it acts differently on real hardware?

CraigAB69 wrote on 2023-01-01, 03:28:

Yea, I don't think Qemm 8 or 8.03, likes VirtualBox 7.0.4r154605.

I'm using an MS-DOS 6.22 VM with QEMM 9 in Virtual Box 4.1.12..
I've created it a few years ago when I was testing DESQView/X, I believe.

Edit: Newer releases of the famous virtualization products seem to use hardware-assisted virtualization all the time.
Maybe there's some sort of stability issue. Maybe the host CPU has compatibility issues on its own, too.
I'm currently on an Intel Xeon system, running Windows XP 32-Bit. Intel-VT isn't used.
It's my emulator PC, so to say. Not the main PC - that's a Raspberry Pi 4, still.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-01, 10:25:

I'm using an MS-DOS 6.22 VM with QEMM 9 in Virtual Box 4.1.12..
I've created it a few years ago when I was testing DESQView/X, I believe.

Yea, I don't know mate.

I have been using that Dos 6.2, Win 3.11 for about 12 months now and it ran as expected. Install Qemm and strange crashes started.

Qemm has been removed, and stability has returned.

I don't really have time to dig into it at the moment and RTFM.

The TECNOTE directory didn't even help, nor the 2 books on Internet Archieve.
Which is is why I was looking for a KB.
I even tried to look for quaterdeck.com on WayBackMachine, be even those snapshot redirected to porn sites.