yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-24, 23:13:

we can do almost anything on the sidecar because we have no physical constraints. If you want to make my life easy use components that have symbol,footprint and 3d model in SnapEDA.com , otherwise it is no big deal but I have to make the footprints/symbols myself. if the datasheet has example/reference design that is even better for me.

for our sidecar we will not utilize the speaker pin on the pcmcia standard, but I will still investigate and understand it better so the "card" version of the sound only aspect of this can use it, and having an external headphone jack/headphone can be optional

Ok,
I'll make a list of what we need and links to the PDFs containing the components technical details here,
example/reference schematics (or an additional PDF which contains one)...

Here we go:

For the AD8397 opamp (the opamp to drive a set of headphones)

Here is the manufacturer's PDF with all the technical information (but no example/reference design/schematic in it...)
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-doc … eets/AD8397.pdf
However, here is a PDF containing the schematics of an evaluation board for op-amps like the AD8397, so you can use that as a reference design:
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-doc … ides/UG-128.pdf (you could use this for any similarly packaged dual-opamps)
And, another one with a reference schematic: https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-doc … tes/AN-1429.pdf

SnapEDA page for the part:
https://www.snapeda.com/parts/AD8397/Analog%2 … search&t=AD8397

For the LM4889 "boomer" 1 watt mono speaker amplifier SMD IC that we'd need to drive the micro-speaker in the lxsidecar

Manufacturer's PDF containing several reference schematics:
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm4889.pdf? … s=1614212141955

SnapEDA page for part:
https://www.snapeda.com/parts/LM4889MM/Texas% … search&t=LM4889

For the 1 watt micro-speaker to be mounted inside the LXsidecar case

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2869785.pdf

SnapEDA page for part:
https://www.snapeda.com/parts/ABS-239-RC/Pro% … ch&t=ABS-239-RC
(seems to be lacking a 2d and 3d model, but it says to click a button and they will create one for you... never used this site before so not sure about how this works and if you have to pay for it or something,
but it doesn't matter anyways as we're not going to mount the speaker on the PCB, it will be mounted into the lxsidecar's case and connected via wires to the PCB which contains the LM4889 amplifier IC...

There we go, if I find any others I will update this page, however I'm going to move this to the github issue page instead, and just leave this post here,
but we should continue discussing this on the github issue page...

Cheers,
Terrence

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one. I wouldn't really know where to start with hardware design but I'll be following your development on your sidecar project as it sounds really interesting!

A while ago I started porting my first person shooter game to DOS and it runs quite nicely on the 100LX. The screen ghosting isn't great but overall it is quite playable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0UFvSoetcI&feature=youtu.be

I've also done a bit of hardware tinkering with the IR port. I hooked up an Arduino (later swapped for an ESP32) and was able to communicate reliably on the IR port at about 300 baud. If I plugged the Arduino into a Raspberry Pi I could then use the 100LX as a terminal to log in and run commands on the Pi. Unfortunately at higher baud rates the IR receiver setup I had was unreliable (I suspect to do with my resistor values).

With some minor modifications to the Arduino sketch I was also able to emulate a mouse over the IR port. Some small changes were also needed for the DOS mouse driver. My plan was to use the ESP32 to communicate with a Bluetooth mouse and emulate a serial mouse whilst communicating over IR. Unfortunately it is not currently possible for the ESP32 to pair with a mouse so I didn't get much further.

If I do manage to get the IR communication running at a higher baud then potentially the ESP32 could act as a SLIP server which would provide my 100LX with wireless networking. I also managed to find some small connectors which are the right size for the 100LX/200LX serial port so maybe one day I will attempt to make a DIY serial cable or make some sort of ESP32 dongle. I would have to do some voltage regulation to change from the 12V to 3.3V that the ESP32 would need but my electronics knowledge is a bit limited.

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network […]
Show full quote

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one. I wouldn't really know where to start with hardware design but I'll be following your development on your sidecar project as it sounds really interesting!

A while ago I started porting my first person shooter game to DOS and it runs quite nicely on the 100LX. The screen ghosting isn't great but overall it is quite playable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0UFvSoetcI&feature=youtu.be

I've also done a bit of hardware tinkering with the IR port. I hooked up an Arduino (later swapped for an ESP32) and was able to communicate reliably on the IR port at about 300 baud. If I plugged the Arduino into a Raspberry Pi I could then use the 100LX as a terminal to log in and run commands on the Pi. Unfortunately at higher baud rates the IR receiver setup I had was unreliable (I suspect to do with my resistor values).

With some minor modifications to the Arduino sketch I was also able to emulate a mouse over the IR port. Some small changes were also needed for the DOS mouse driver. My plan was to use the ESP32 to communicate with a Bluetooth mouse and emulate a serial mouse whilst communicating over IR. Unfortunately it is not currently possible for the ESP32 to pair with a mouse so I didn't get much further.

If I do manage to get the IR communication running at a higher baud then potentially the ESP32 could act as a SLIP server which would provide my 100LX with wireless networking. I also managed to find some small connectors which are the right size for the 100LX/200LX serial port so maybe one day I will attempt to make a DIY serial cable or make some sort of ESP32 dongle. I would have to do some voltage regulation to change from the 12V to 3.3V that the ESP32 would need but my electronics knowledge is a bit limited.

Hi JhHoward! 😀

I'm extremely interested in knowing where you can get these connectors that fit into the palmtop's serial port, that you found...

Can you give me any information about them? the brand/type and maybe a link?
I've been thinking about making custom mice for the 200LX, so you don't need a 200lx serial cable and a null-modem adapter and gender changer adapter to hook up a mouse...

Terrence

I found these on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392406978951?ul_noapp=true

One thing that isn't ideal is that the connector isn't deep enough but you could stack two together and it is about right.

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 22:17:

I found these on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392406978951?ul_noapp=true

One thing that isn't ideal is that the connector isn't deep enough but you could stack two together and it is about right.

Thanks, a lot! I bought some 😀

Terrence

nice work on that FPS game!

re: esp32, I am doing something similar. I packaged an ESP8266 into a PCMCIA card that aside from acting as a virtual modem can give access to the LAN via SLIP, I mainly use it for ipx multiplayer gaming.

one of the advantages, because I am implementing my own UART I can use my own non-standard crystal and run baud rates above 115200, so far I have done 460800 but I think 921600 is possible.

You mention 12V, where does that come from, there is no 12V available on that serial connector is there? on my internal pcmcia board I use a high efficiency DC-DC to get 3.3V from the 5V and stay (so far) below the ~150mA limit while transmitting on the wireless.

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network […]
Show full quote

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one. I wouldn't really know where to start with hardware design but I'll be following your development on your sidecar project as it sounds really interesting!

A while ago I started porting my first person shooter game to DOS and it runs quite nicely on the 100LX. The screen ghosting isn't great but overall it is quite playable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0UFvSoetcI&feature=youtu.be

I've also done a bit of hardware tinkering with the IR port. I hooked up an Arduino (later swapped for an ESP32) and was able to communicate reliably on the IR port at about 300 baud. If I plugged the Arduino into a Raspberry Pi I could then use the 100LX as a terminal to log in and run commands on the Pi. Unfortunately at higher baud rates the IR receiver setup I had was unreliable (I suspect to do with my resistor values).

With some minor modifications to the Arduino sketch I was also able to emulate a mouse over the IR port. Some small changes were also needed for the DOS mouse driver. My plan was to use the ESP32 to communicate with a Bluetooth mouse and emulate a serial mouse whilst communicating over IR. Unfortunately it is not currently possible for the ESP32 to pair with a mouse so I didn't get much further.

If I do manage to get the IR communication running at a higher baud then potentially the ESP32 could act as a SLIP server which would provide my 100LX with wireless networking. I also managed to find some small connectors which are the right size for the 100LX/200LX serial port so maybe one day I will attempt to make a DIY serial cable or make some sort of ESP32 dongle. I would have to do some voltage regulation to change from the 12V to 3.3V that the ESP32 would need but my electronics knowledge is a bit limited.

Your ESP8266 in a PCMCIA card sounds interesting! Do you have any further details or posts about this? How easy would it be to replicate? It sounds like you were also able to run the microcontroller from just the palmtop power which is a plus. The ESP chips are pretty powerful so you could probably emulate a network card like an NE2000 (instead of using SLIP) or even a sound card if there was enough power to drive audio output.

Regarding the crystal, are you talking about the one inside the palmtop that dictates the clock speed? What speed are you running at?

For the serial connector, as I understand it the standard PC serial port communicates on a -12/+12V signal so I assume you would need to do some conversion before connecting up to the pins of an ESP32 which is only 3.3V tolerant?

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one
...

Hello,
One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd party and that's a lot of space for an XT-class palmtop. The Omnigo 700LX (a 200LX which cradles a Nokia 2110 GMS phone at the top has two PCMCIA interfaces by factory default, maybe that expansion circuitry could be copied, so you could use a sound card alongside an Accton or Silicom ethernet card?)

Another curious idea would be to re-purpose the 200LX's nearly useless (not fully IrDA compatible) infrared serial/printer LED light to drive an older, IR-comms based "wireless" headphone? Is the palmtop's circuit fast and flexible enough for that?

(Anyhow I remember participating a little in the beta test of LXMidi program and based on that experience, not sure if the HPLX is ideal platform to mix the next Vocaloid hit or something like that...)

BR: Tamas Feher.

etomcat wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:00:

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one
...

Hello,
One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX and that's a lot of space for an XT-class palmtop. The Omnigo 700LX (a 200LX which cradles a Nokia 2110 GMS phone at the top has two PCMCIA interfaces by factory default, maybe that exapnsion circuitry could be copied, so you could use a sound card alonside an Accton or Silicom ethernet card?)

Try finding an internal 32 or 64MB upgrade board for your HP200LX 😉
You'll end up searching for months and paying hundreds of dollars,
compared to a 2GB CF card in a CF to PCMCIA adapter.
There are 2 companies that remain that can upgrade you HP200lx (they don't sell the upgrade boards directly) to 32mb and they usually have no stock, and if you're lucky when they have one,
you have to send your palmtop to them to be upgraded and expect the whole thing to cost you hundreds of dollars...
During the last 4 months, there has been only 1 system for sale on eBay (worldwide), with 32MB internal ram and it's on sale for $800 instead of the usual ¬$200 for a stock model! 😀
Compared to a widely available 256MB or more CF card that costs $30, having external storage on the LXSidecar is a *must* have,
in fact, it's the whole reason why it's being made, to be able to have your CF storage at the same time as other features which would occupy your CF card slot like sound cards, parallel port PCMCIA cards, etc...

Terrence

etomcat wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:00:

Hello, One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd pa […]
Show full quote

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one
...

Hello,
One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd party and that's a lot of space for an XT-class palmtop. The Omnigo 700LX (a 200LX which cradles a Nokia 2110 GMS phone at the top has two PCMCIA interfaces by factory default, maybe that expansion circuitry could be copied, so you could use a sound card alongside an Accton or Silicom ethernet card?)

Another curious idea would be to re-purpose the 200LX's nearly useless (not fully IrDA compatible) infrared serial/printer LED light to drive an older, IR-comms based "wireless" headphone? Is the palmtop's circuit fast and flexible enough for that?

(Anyhow I remember participating a little in the beta test of LXMidi program and based on that experience, not sure if the HPLX is ideal platform to mix the next Vocaloid hit or something like that...)

BR: Tamas Feher.

Unfortunately, the serial port (and IrDA port) on the 200LX is far too slow for digital audio of any acceptable quality.
You need a parallel PCMCIA card to drive a COVOX for example (which is 8bit ¬22KHz mono).
Unfortunately the serial port on the 200LX is far too slow to drive a pair of headphones with acceptable sound quality...

Terrence

radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:13:

Unfortunately, the serial port (and IrDA port) on the 200LX is far too slow for digital audio of any acceptable quality. You nee […]
Show full quote

etomcat wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:00:

Hello, One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd pa […]
Show full quote

jhhoward wrote on 2021-02-25, 12:34:

I've got an HP 100LX and I've always thought it would be neat to have a sort of super PCMCIA card which can do storage, network and sound all in one
...

Hello,
One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd party and that's a lot of space for an XT-class palmtop. The Omnigo 700LX (a 200LX which cradles a Nokia 2110 GMS phone at the top has two PCMCIA interfaces by factory default, maybe that expansion circuitry could be copied, so you could use a sound card alongside an Accton or Silicom ethernet card?)

Another curious idea would be to re-purpose the 200LX's nearly useless (not fully IrDA compatible) infrared serial/printer LED light to drive an older, IR-comms based "wireless" headphone? Is the palmtop's circuit fast and flexible enough for that?

(Anyhow I remember participating a little in the beta test of LXMidi program and based on that experience, not sure if the HPLX is ideal platform to mix the next Vocaloid hit or something like that...)

BR: Tamas Feher.

Unfortunately, the serial port (and IrDA port) on the 200LX is far too slow for digital audio of any acceptable quality.
You need a parallel PCMCIA card to drive a COVOX for example (which is 8bit ¬22KHz mono).
Unfortunately the serial port on the 200LX is far too slow to drive a pair of headphones with acceptable sound quality...

Terrence

Someone is currently offering a batch of Digispeech DS201A audio devices on eBay right now. The cool thing about these devices is that they connect to the serial port, unlike later Digispeech models that connect to the parallel port.

Apparently, the DS201A is capable of outputting digital audio at 8kHz. That's even better than the Disney Sound Source, which only does 7kHz.

And there is a DIGPAK driver for it, so you might be able to make it work with a number of games.

Why not try that with the 200LX? 🙂

digger wrote on 2021-03-14, 16:37:

Someone is currently offering a batch of Digispeech DS201A audio devices on eBay right now. The cool thing about these devices i […]
Show full quote

radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:13:

Unfortunately, the serial port (and IrDA port) on the 200LX is far too slow for digital audio of any acceptable quality. You nee […]
Show full quote

etomcat wrote on 2021-03-13, 23:00:

Hello, One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd pa […]
Show full quote

Hello,
One doesn't really need external storage since 32/64MB internal upgrades are available for the HP100/200LX through 3rd party and that's a lot of space for an XT-class palmtop. The Omnigo 700LX (a 200LX which cradles a Nokia 2110 GMS phone at the top has two PCMCIA interfaces by factory default, maybe that expansion circuitry could be copied, so you could use a sound card alongside an Accton or Silicom ethernet card?)

Another curious idea would be to re-purpose the 200LX's nearly useless (not fully IrDA compatible) infrared serial/printer LED light to drive an older, IR-comms based "wireless" headphone? Is the palmtop's circuit fast and flexible enough for that?

(Anyhow I remember participating a little in the beta test of LXMidi program and based on that experience, not sure if the HPLX is ideal platform to mix the next Vocaloid hit or something like that...)

BR: Tamas Feher.

Unfortunately, the serial port (and IrDA port) on the 200LX is far too slow for digital audio of any acceptable quality.
You need a parallel PCMCIA card to drive a COVOX for example (which is 8bit ¬22KHz mono).
Unfortunately the serial port on the 200LX is far too slow to drive a pair of headphones with acceptable sound quality...

Terrence

Someone is currently offering a batch of Digispeech DS201A audio devices on eBay right now. The cool thing about these devices is that they connect to the serial port, unlike later Digispeech models that connect to the parallel port.

Apparently, the DS201A is capable of outputting digital audio at 8kHz. That's even better than the Disney Sound Source, which only does 7kHz.

And there is a DIGPAK driver for it, so you might be able to make it work with a number of games.

Why not try that with the 200LX? 🙂

Hmmmmm 8Khz is abysmal... it sounds like making a long-distance, international phone-call during the 1930s 😉 🤣
It's interesting to try though, but i wonder how the drivers would be compatible with old dos games...
ALso, is this digpak driver able to run on a 8086 type CPU, as many of these parallel port "redirection" drivers use the 386 CPU's features,
so won't work on an HP200LX...
It might be worth it to buy one and play around with it, i'll go over and have a look and see if i can get one cheaply to play around with...

Terrence

radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-14, 21:26:

Hmmmmm 8Khz is abysmal... it sounds like making a long-distance, international phone-call during the 1930s 😉 🤣

To be fair, most DOS games that even had digital SFX had samples that played back at 11kHz or less. So it wouldn't sound that much worse in most of them.

It's interesting to try though, but i wonder how the drivers would be compatible with old dos games... ALso, is this digpak driv […]
Show full quote

It's interesting to try though, but i wonder how the drivers would be compatible with old dos games...
ALso, is this digpak driver able to run on a 8086 type CPU, as many of these parallel port "redirection" drivers use the 386 CPU's features,
so won't work on an HP200LX...
It might be worth it to buy one and play around with it, i'll go over and have a look and see if i can get one cheaply to play around with...

DIGPAK is not an emulator. It was a sound driver standard that provided hardware abstraction for DOS game developers. It therefore doesn't rely on the port trapping functionality of 386+ CPUs.

However, looking at the DIGPAK source code, I see that it does make use of 386-specific instructions here and there. Perhaps that's only for some of the supported audio devices, but it indeed makes it less likely to work with any older CPUs.

I should have checked what CPU the HP200LX had, but since people here were talking about PCMCIA, I was kind of assuming it would be a 386 or 486. Sorry.

digger wrote on 2021-03-14, 22:45:

To be fair, most DOS games that even had digital SFX had samples that played back at 11kHz or less. So it wouldn't sound that mu […]
Show full quote

radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-14, 21:26:

Hmmmmm 8Khz is abysmal... it sounds like making a long-distance, international phone-call during the 1930s 😉 🤣

To be fair, most DOS games that even had digital SFX had samples that played back at 11kHz or less. So it wouldn't sound that much worse in most of them.

It's interesting to try though, but i wonder how the drivers would be compatible with old dos games... ALso, is this digpak driv […]
Show full quote

It's interesting to try though, but i wonder how the drivers would be compatible with old dos games...
ALso, is this digpak driver able to run on a 8086 type CPU, as many of these parallel port "redirection" drivers use the 386 CPU's features,
so won't work on an HP200LX...
It might be worth it to buy one and play around with it, i'll go over and have a look and see if i can get one cheaply to play around with...

DIGPAK is not an emulator. It was a sound driver standard that provided hardware abstraction for DOS game developers. It therefore doesn't rely on the port trapping functionality of 386+ CPUs.

However, looking at the DIGPAK source code, I see that it does make use of 386-specific instructions here and there. Perhaps that's only for some of the supported audio devices, but it indeed makes it less likely to work with any older CPUs.

I should have checked what CPU the HP200LX had, but since people here were talking about PCMCIA, I was kind of assuming it would be a 386 or 486. Sorry.

I just purchased one unit to try it out...
If it ends up not working with the 200lx because the drivers or TSR requires a 286 or 386 CPU,
I can always put it back up on ebay and sell it to someone who can use it...

Let's hope it arrives soon, i'll post a test video of some music or some game or something playing with it on the 200lx (if it works with the 200lx's 8086-based CPU that is) 😀

Do you or anyone else here know of any games that support the DIGPAK audio driver, but are MS-DOS and 8086 compatible and have support for CGA ???
It also says something about being able to emulate tandy sound (I think it's 3 square waves and one noise channel), probably via some software synth as a TSR,
but again, I hope it's 8086 compatible...

Cheers,
Terrence

Most DIGPAK games were real mode games, actually. But again, at least some of the DIGPAK drivers appear to have 386 instructions in their assembly sources.

Considering the overseas shipping (slow and overpriced), you'll probably get to test it a lot quicker than I will.

We might want to open a separate topic on this. There are already topics for other (later) Digispeech devices, but I believe none yet (at least on Vogons) for the DS201A.

digger wrote on 2021-03-15, 00:02:

Most DIGPAK games were real mode games, actually. But again, at least some of the DIGPAK drivers appear to have 386 instructions in their assembly sources.

Considering the overseas shipping (slow and overpriced), you'll probably get to test it a lot quicker than I will.

We might want to open a separate topic on this. There are already topics for other (later) Digispeech devices, but I believe none yet (at least on Vogons) for the DS201A.

I don't think so, I live in NZ and use a forwarding service from NZ Post, they have an address in the US that I have all my USA-based eBay resellers send parcels to,
and they wait in the warehouse at the forwarding centre until I have enough parcels, then I consolidate them into one large parcel and pay for shipping to NZ,
which I usually choose to do via sea freight as it's much cheaper than airfreight, and, I don't have a burning need to get my hands on this device tomorrow,
it can wait a month or two 😉 It usually takes 2 months to ship via sea-freight...

So I think you'll be testing it out before me! 😀
It would be really cool if you could post your findings here, maybe some screenshots or a youtube video or something (if you can get it to work),
and maybe if you can find some games that run on 8086 systems with CGA graphics, and list them here, that would be great as i'll be able to start
testing the same games on my 200lx once the unit has arrived 😀

Cheers!,
Terrence

Hello,

Does this have any practical significance nowadays? It weighs about almost a kilo / 2lbs.
(The HP 100LX Cougar was more or less an early 200LX without Intuit Quicken.)

BR: Tamas Feher.

radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 00:55:

So I think you'll be testing it out before me! :) It would be really cool if you could post your findings here, maybe some scree […]
Show full quote

So I think you'll be testing it out before me! 😀
It would be really cool if you could post your findings here, maybe some screenshots or a youtube video or something (if you can get it to work),
and maybe if you can find some games that run on 8086 systems with CGA graphics, and list them here, that would be great as i'll be able to start
testing the same games on my 200lx once the unit has arrived 😀

Cheers!,
Terrence

I'll definitely play with with it and share my findings once the shipment has been delivered. To be continued!

Hello,
Whatever happened to that japanese crowd-funded HP386LX design that was supposed to be powered by an AMD 386DX derived SoC?
BR: Tamas Feher.

etomcat wrote on 2021-03-30, 11:36:

Hello,
Whatever happened to that japanese crowd-funded HP386LX design that was supposed to be powered by an AMD 386DX derived SoC?
BR: Tamas Feher.

I (think) i read somewhere that the project was abandoned during early development...

Cheers,
Terrence