aircrusader wrote on 2024-09-26, 00:53:

Good day all, Longtime listener, first time caller. […]
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Good day all,
Longtime listener, first time caller.

Just checking my PCChips MB-M754AL-LMR-MATX for TNT2 sdram pads.
It's labelled "2Mx32@ SDRAM"
On very close inspection I noticed pin 21 on both sets of pads in "n/c".

The datasheet for ISSI IS42S32200L-6TL (as used by JLPedro above) shows pin 21=NC. This gives you 16MB total VRAM.
The datasheet for ISSI IS42S32400F-6TLI show pin 21=A11. This 'would' give you 32MB total VRAM, if the motherboard pads went anywhere useful.
Mouser carries huge inventory of these parts.

It could just be my motherboard, YMMV. Please check both pin21 to see if it goes to your ALI chipset or is NC. 👍
At worst, your 32MB SDRAM would only be used as 16MB.
(Now, has anyone dropped Tualatin onto these boards?)

16MB max
No tualatin support.

Nexxen wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:12:

I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable. […]
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I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable.

BIOS + Pics
American Megatrends 07/15/97
Was wondering if anyone had the latest Bios version.

Does anyone have a version with SDRAM? Any idea of the chip I could try to solder there?

Recap if you don't want to read the whole thing:

Supported cpus:
PIII :Coppermine up to max (tested), no Tualatin;
C3: up to Samuel2 core (all tested worked).
Celeron: Mendocino (333 to 533) + Coppermine (up to max, 1100)

About the SDRAM sockets:

they come unpopulatated (TSOP-II 86 pins) and you can only use "shared" memory for the onboard TNT2; max 32MB.

If soldered, the two SDRAM chips are recognized and used, but in BIOS shared memory must be set to "none" (0 MB) to work.
Local buffer memory used shows at POST.

I couldn't make 3D tests because I failed soldering the two chips and many traces got damaged, but it does work.
Micro soldering is difficult, you need a microscope and good skill, also the working area isn't very large.
I was partially successful with 16 MB, but I think that 32 is feasible.

Video ram speed depends heavily on Bus speed.

Sorry for the necro, I was given the same board recently and I'm thinking of using it for a win98 build,. How does the integrated VGA compare to a dedicated TNT2, is it severely crippled by the lack of dedicated vram or is performance similar? Do you think it makes for a decent win98 machine?

Guy wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

Nexxen wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:12:

I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable. […]
Show full quote

I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable.

BIOS + Pics
American Megatrends 07/15/97
Was wondering if anyone had the latest Bios version.

Does anyone have a version with SDRAM? Any idea of the chip I could try to solder there?

Recap if you don't want to read the whole thing:

Supported cpus:
PIII :Coppermine up to max (tested), no Tualatin;
C3: up to Samuel2 core (all tested worked).
Celeron: Mendocino (333 to 533) + Coppermine (up to max, 1100)

About the SDRAM sockets:

they come unpopulatated (TSOP-II 86 pins) and you can only use "shared" memory for the onboard TNT2; max 32MB.

If soldered, the two SDRAM chips are recognized and used, but in BIOS shared memory must be set to "none" (0 MB) to work.
Local buffer memory used shows at POST.

I couldn't make 3D tests because I failed soldering the two chips and many traces got damaged, but it does work.
Micro soldering is difficult, you need a microscope and good skill, also the working area isn't very large.
I was partially successful with 16 MB, but I think that 32 is feasible.

Video ram speed depends heavily on Bus speed.

Sorry for the necro, I was given the same board recently and I'm thinking of using it for a win98 build,. How does the integrated VGA compare to a dedicated TNT2, is it severely crippled by the lack of dedicated vram or is performance similar? Do you think it makes for a decent win98 machine?

A user tried something after successfully soldering ram (Re: PC Chips 754LMR+). Try quoting him to get answer.

I'd use a dedicated card really just because it's easier to manage and does not require soldering.
I don't have benchmarks as I fried the ram chips when soldering (facepalm).

P-iii + some ram and it's a nice machine, nothing fancy though.
If it's your first motherboard in the retro area use it as a learning tool, cpus aren't high priced and it could be retro gaming machine.
In that case open a new thread to get better help.

Hope this helps.

Nexxen wrote on Yesterday, 22:34:

A user tried something after successfully soldering ram (Re: PC Chips 754LMR+). Try quoting him to get answer. […]
Show full quote

Guy wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

Nexxen wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:12:

I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable. […]
Show full quote

I had this board for a while, had to replace the VGA connector because it just stripped away when removing the cable.

BIOS + Pics
American Megatrends 07/15/97
Was wondering if anyone had the latest Bios version.

Does anyone have a version with SDRAM? Any idea of the chip I could try to solder there?

Recap if you don't want to read the whole thing:

Supported cpus:
PIII :Coppermine up to max (tested), no Tualatin;
C3: up to Samuel2 core (all tested worked).
Celeron: Mendocino (333 to 533) + Coppermine (up to max, 1100)

About the SDRAM sockets:

they come unpopulatated (TSOP-II 86 pins) and you can only use "shared" memory for the onboard TNT2; max 32MB.

If soldered, the two SDRAM chips are recognized and used, but in BIOS shared memory must be set to "none" (0 MB) to work.
Local buffer memory used shows at POST.

I couldn't make 3D tests because I failed soldering the two chips and many traces got damaged, but it does work.
Micro soldering is difficult, you need a microscope and good skill, also the working area isn't very large.
I was partially successful with 16 MB, but I think that 32 is feasible.

Video ram speed depends heavily on Bus speed.

Sorry for the necro, I was given the same board recently and I'm thinking of using it for a win98 build,. How does the integrated VGA compare to a dedicated TNT2, is it severely crippled by the lack of dedicated vram or is performance similar? Do you think it makes for a decent win98 machine?

A user tried something after successfully soldering ram (Re: PC Chips 754LMR+). Try quoting him to get answer.

I'd use a dedicated card really just because it's easier to manage and does not require soldering.
I don't have benchmarks as I fried the ram chips when soldering (facepalm).

P-iii + some ram and it's a nice machine, nothing fancy though.
If it's your first motherboard in the retro area use it as a learning tool, cpus aren't high priced and it could be retro gaming machine.
In that case open a new thread to get better help.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the answer, I'm not planning of soldering the extra vram chips, I don't have the equipment nor the skills. I'm gonna use it as is, I was just wondering how does the onboard chip compare to a regular TNT2.

Guy wrote on Today, 08:28:

Nexxen wrote on Yesterday, 22:34:

A user tried something after successfully soldering ram (Re: PC Chips 754LMR+). Try quoting him to get answer. […]
Show full quote

Guy wrote on Yesterday, 19:07:

Sorry for the necro, I was given the same board recently and I'm thinking of using it for a win98 build,. How does the integrated VGA compare to a dedicated TNT2, is it severely crippled by the lack of dedicated vram or is performance similar? Do you think it makes for a decent win98 machine?

A user tried something after successfully soldering ram (Re: PC Chips 754LMR+). Try quoting him to get answer.

I'd use a dedicated card really just because it's easier to manage and does not require soldering.
I don't have benchmarks as I fried the ram chips when soldering (facepalm).

P-iii + some ram and it's a nice machine, nothing fancy though.
If it's your first motherboard in the retro area use it as a learning tool, cpus aren't high priced and it could be retro gaming machine.
In that case open a new thread to get better help.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the answer, I'm not planning of soldering the extra vram chips, I don't have the equipment nor the skills. I'm gonna use it as is, I was just wondering how does the onboard chip compare to a regular TNT2.

Ok, my guess is on par but the other user never posted back.
If you benchmark maybe post here some the results. It's always nice to have more data to compare to.

Have fun mate!