I've now tested it with the SATA II RAID card and another SCSI card to give me SCSI CD-ROM and both cards as well as the onboard SCSI work. (I now need to fit a BIOS battery and two SATA SSD's)

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-08-15, 23:59:

A number of the big board maker shipped their own backplate solutions for this class of boards, though Tyan doesn't seem to have […]
Show full quote

A number of the big board maker shipped their own backplate solutions for this class of boards, though Tyan doesn't seem to have been own of them 🙁

My Asus NCCH-DL & NCCH-DR boards both came with the X-PAD accessory kit, with adhesive backplates plus various heights of threaded nuts and rubber pads (these replaced the CEK springs)...

Xeon 604 CPU Support.jpg

...and my Iwill Dh800 came with a full size backplate to be screwed to the chassis...

Iwill Xeon backplate.jpg

You also used to be able to get similar generic solutions like this - hard to find today though...

Xeon 604 backplates.jpg

If making your own, watch the height of the tapped threads (may have to add small threaded spacers) so as to apply sufficient load when the heatsinks are screwed fully down

All the Supermicro 603/604 boards I bought over the years came with the back plates. It used to be something of a problem when they first hit the used market because they almost never came with the back plates.
Of course now-a-days people dont realise they came with their own cooler mounting solution so they dont look for it on the ebay auction description. But that fact has stopped me from buying a fair few boards on there, including a few Ive seen turn up pictured on here over the years.

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-08-16, 05:31:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-08-15, 22:59:

You might as well get those two coolers in some white vinegar while youre waiting for the back plates

For bringing out the copper shine, or is there some other advantage, I don't know of?

Copper shine.
Being dirty free helps with the heat too of course, but it doesnt last with all that air blowing over it so for me its just about the shine. now 😀

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-16, 06:33:

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-08-15, 23:59:

A number of the big board maker shipped their own backplate solutions for this class of boards, though Tyan doesn't seem to have […]
Show full quote

A number of the big board maker shipped their own backplate solutions for this class of boards, though Tyan doesn't seem to have been own of them 🙁

My Asus NCCH-DL & NCCH-DR boards both came with the X-PAD accessory kit, with adhesive backplates plus various heights of threaded nuts and rubber pads (these replaced the CEK springs)...

Xeon 604 CPU Support.jpg

...and my Iwill Dh800 came with a full size backplate to be screwed to the chassis...

Iwill Xeon backplate.jpg

You also used to be able to get similar generic solutions like this - hard to find today though...

Xeon 604 backplates.jpg

If making your own, watch the height of the tapped threads (may have to add small threaded spacers) so as to apply sufficient load when the heatsinks are screwed fully down

Thanks very much for the info!

I intend to have the plate made up from 4.5mm plate aluminium. I checked the distance or depth to which the screw posts extend and they line up with the underside of the motherboard and the maximum extension length of the screws beyond that is 4mm with the coolers sitting on top of the CPU’s. A standard standoff is 6mm in length, the plate aluminium that I'm going to have made up has 1.5mm less height, so it will be able to take the full length of the screws beyond the screw post (The screws will be able to be driven 2.5 mm into the aluminium before the coolers starts exerting a downward force on the CPU's), driving the screws to a depth of 3.5mm should allow for a sufficient amount of pressure to be applied to the CPU’s. I'll make use of "tube spacers" to apply pressure to the CEK springs if required.

I get mine made up by a local company. They cut me up some nylon or PTFE plate to the specs given.

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-16, 12:53:

I've just run an initial test just to see if the motherboard and CPU's work, and they do indeed! […]
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I've just run an initial test just to see if the motherboard and CPU's work, and they do indeed!

Sorry for the messy setup, but I can't mount it in the case as yet, but I absolutely had to check to see if it indeed works!

What is your planned use for it? Will you run Win2k3 on it or >?
Whats your plans?

Whats the PCI addin SCSI card you have there? The PCB layout looks like a AHA2940UW! But I doubt its that.

I've set it up running Windows 7, as XP would not allow me to install a driver for the GTX 690.

I've also found out during the course of my troubles that my old 8800GTX is completely dead!!! (It won't even output in the BIOS)

I've literally been battling to get this thing to work all day! (As Windows 7 simply refused to install with the SCSI CD-ROM attached to the Adaptec AHA-2940UW PRO, so after hours of battling I pulled the card and installed an IDE DVD-ROM, which did the trick!)

Here's an ATTO test showing the SATA II RAID 0 performance: (That's pretty quick for a P4-type system)

Here's a 3DMark 2001 bench-test result: (Not quite as impressive as I'd hoped for, but still not too bad if you consider the vintage of the base hardware being used here! I suppose the GTX 690 would perform better with later versions which would take more advantage of it's hardware)

I've upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8 Professional and I've just installed Crysis, and I'm pretty darn impressed with what I'm witnessing!!!! (I'm running it @1920x1080@very high settings @30 to 40 FPS!!!)

These two CPU's generate an impressive amount of heat. (I'm running the CPU fan at 100% for now and you can feel the warm air blowing off them!)

Here's an example of the Crisis Performance I'm getting on this system: (I had to put it in a windowed mode in order to screenshot it)

I'm pretty happy with this, as this performance is only a couple of FPS off my Alienware Core2 Quad Extreme's performance. (The GTX 690 is much more powerful than the Quadro Plex 1000 model IV featured in that system though, but it's impressive performance none the less!)

The system's now neatly packed away, awaiting me to come up with a CPU cooler chassis mounting solution!

By the way, it's a mission to get to coolers off the CPU's, as the thermal paste causes the coolers to stick to them like glue! (I now know why intel opted for LGA Sockets after these!)

Excellent, well thought out build so far! Its hot and out gunned by a core duo but there is something redeeming about this era just before core duos debuted. Two cores meant you needed a workstation board and $$$. I remember the first SLI system advertised in Custom PC magazine was a Scan 3XS system, comprising of a Supermicro E7525 board, top of the line Xeons and 6800 Ultra SLi 🤤

I have a similar project but was disappointed that no 604 Xeon board with PCIe e.g. E7525 supports the old Gallatin cores at all. They stipulate 800Mhz FSB as mandatory.

So I'm going down the old Granite Bay road and having a funky PCI-X to PCIe adaptor to keep the 4MB Gallatins.

My IWill boards come with small backplates that are not for chassis mounting and my Alpha 604 coolers were the same. Seems another difference with these newer boards.

Those 604 Xeons are so easy to rip out!

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-17, 19:40:

The system's now neatly packed away, awaiting me to come up with a CPU cooler chassis mounting solution! […]
Show full quote

The system's now neatly packed away, awaiting me to come up with a CPU cooler chassis mounting solution!

By the way, it's a mission to get to coolers off the CPU's, as the thermal paste causes the coolers to stick to them like glue! (I now know why intel opted for LGA Sockets after these!)

I remember that I often powered systems in for a few seconds to heat up the thermal paste before removing coolers. That way, I could carefully twist the heat sink a bit to release the stickiness ...

Hanamichi wrote on 2023-08-17, 23:57:

Excellent, well thought out build so far! Its hot and out gunned by a core duo but there is something redeeming about this era j […]
Show full quote

Excellent, well thought out build so far! Its hot and out gunned by a core duo but there is something redeeming about this era just before core duos debuted. Two cores meant you needed a workstation board and $$$. I remember the first SLI system advertised in Custom PC magazine was a Scan 3XS system, comprising of a Supermicro E7525 board, top of the line Xeons and 6800 Ultra SLi 🤤

I have a similar project but was disappointed that no 604 Xeon board with PCIe e.g. E7525 supports the old Gallatin cores at all. They stipulate 800Mhz FSB as mandatory.

So I'm going down the old Granite Bay road and having a funky PCI-X to PCIe adaptor to keep the 4MB Gallatins.

My IWill boards come with small backplates that are not for chassis mounting and my Alpha 604 coolers were the same. Seems another difference with these newer boards.

Those 604 Xeons are so easy to rip out!

Thanks!

I also happen to have a Gallatin RDRAM build in the works (I'll be fitting that board with two 3GHz Gallatin's)

Using Blender as a measuring tool, it will be interesting to see how they compare to these 3.8GHz cores how much will the extra 2MB cache help them vs the extra 800MHz

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-08-18, 04:06:

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-17, 19:40:

The system's now neatly packed away, awaiting me to come up with a CPU cooler chassis mounting solution! […]
Show full quote

The system's now neatly packed away, awaiting me to come up with a CPU cooler chassis mounting solution!

By the way, it's a mission to get to coolers off the CPU's, as the thermal paste causes the coolers to stick to them like glue! (I now know why intel opted for LGA Sockets after these!)

I remember that I often powered systems in for a few seconds to heat up the thermal paste before removing coolers. That way, I could carefully twist the heat sink a bit to release the stickiness ...

My chips were slightly warm, but in future I'll take your advice and ensure that they're properly warm before attempting to remove the heatsinks!

Again nice reading Irinikus!

I am somewhat in the same boat, getting the right parts here and there for a dual opteron system from the same era. Two single core Opteron 856 are on the way, the first 3 GHz AMD cpu's I believe.
(Together with the Opteron 256 model)

On this journey, I really came to the conclusion that these kind of systems need a beefy power supply, take up a lot of space, and generate a lot of heat and noise for what they deliver. Aah... the pinnacle of obsoletion. 😁

Slightly warm ought to do it, but I think the careful twist makes the difference?

PD2JK wrote on 2023-08-18, 15:00:

Again nice reading Irinikus! […]
Show full quote

Again nice reading Irinikus!

I am somewhat in the same boat, getting the right parts here and there for a dual opteron system from the same era. Two single core Opteron 856 are on the way, the first 3 GHz AMD cpu's I believe.
(Together with the Opteron 256 model)

On this journey, I really came to the conclusion that these kind of systems need a beefy power supply, take up a lot of space, and generate a lot of heat and noise for what they deliver. Aah... the pinnacle of obsoletion. 😁

Thanks very much! 😀

It's great to heat that you're working on a similar project!

These systems are indeed "the pinnacles of obsolescence", still very capable when slotted with the right hardware, however extremely inefficient! I LOVE IT!!! 😀

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-08-18, 21:50:

Slightly warm ought to do it, but I think the careful twist makes the difference?

I gave them as much of a twist as I could, however the posts on the coolers limit the degree to which you can twist them! (This process just needs an extra degree of caution applied to it!)

my experience with socket 604 coolers has been the same regarding thermal paste. when I got my board, it came with the back plates from supermicro. they screw directly into a "standard e-atx" backplate in the normal locations, and have worked great.

the motherboard is not designed to hold the weight of any cooler. so direct case mounting is required. Dont take off the rubber feet on the board, it keeps the pcb from flexing too much when the coolers are properly applied.

Also Noctua has in the past sold adapter kits to allow their coolers to work on 771 and soc604 xeons: https://noctua.at/en/xeon-mounting-kit/specification I dont know if they are still avail, but if they are, i'm thinking of getting a set or two for myself as a backup.

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mount the CPU coolers.

The only thing is I'd like to do away with the CEK springs and replace them with rubber feet if possible!

I'll also have to carefully trim the leads on the caps surrounding got CPU sockets, as they protrude about 2mm out of the back of the board. (The standard standoffs are 6mm, so this gives me a 1.5mm clearance from the 4.5 mm stainless steel plate.)

I'll apply a layer of Kapton tape to the upper surface of the stainless steel plate:

Any suggestion on adhesive form or rubber feet would be much appreciated!

This is what I'm thinking of using : (Attaching one to the underside of the board at each corner of the CPU sockets)

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-19, 17:14:

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mou […]
Show full quote

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mount the CPU coolers.

The only thing is I'd like to do away with the CEK springs and replace them with rubber feet if possible!

I'll also have to carefully trim the leads on the caps surrounding got CPU sockets, as they protrude about 2mm out of the back of the board. (The standard standoffs are 6mm, so this gives me a 1.5mm clearance from the 4.5 mm stainless steel plate.)

I'll apply a layer of Kapton tape to the upper surface of the stainless steel plate:

Any suggestion on adhesive form or rubber feet would be much appreciated!

This is what I'm thinking of using : (Attaching one to the underside of the board at each corner of the CPU sockets)

Wonder if replacing the hat spring with corner pads might cause issues...this is a quote from the Xeon 800MHz Thermal Design Guide (attached)

"The hat spring on the secondary side of the baseboard provides the
necessary compressive load for the thermal interface material. The baseboard is intended to be
isolated such that the dynamic loads from the heatsink are transferred to the chassis pan via the stiff
screws and standoffs. This reduces the risk of package pullout and solder-joint failures."

Assume you're thinking along the lines of the blue circles, whereas the Asus X-Pad system (although it removes the spring) replaces it with a dense rubber pad (red rectangle 20 x 40mm) slightly taller than the chassis standoffs so than its under sufficient compression directly below the TIM when the heatsinks are fully screwed in. Also, I'd fix any bumpers to the plate rather than the motherboard and I'm not sure the adhesive on those 3M Scotch bumpers will appreciate the heat - both the fixing plate and the rubber pads from Asus come with pre-applied high performance 3M VHB adhesive.

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-08-20, 03:43:

Wonder if replacing the hat spring with corner pads might cause issues...this is a quote from the Xeon 800MHz Thermal Design Gui […]
Show full quote

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-19, 17:14:

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mou […]
Show full quote

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mount the CPU coolers.

The only thing is I'd like to do away with the CEK springs and replace them with rubber feet if possible!

I'll also have to carefully trim the leads on the caps surrounding got CPU sockets, as they protrude about 2mm out of the back of the board. (The standard standoffs are 6mm, so this gives me a 1.5mm clearance from the 4.5 mm stainless steel plate.)

I'll apply a layer of Kapton tape to the upper surface of the stainless steel plate:

Any suggestion on adhesive form or rubber feet would be much appreciated!

This is what I'm thinking of using : (Attaching one to the underside of the board at each corner of the CPU sockets)

Wonder if replacing the hat spring with corner pads might cause issues...this is a quote from the Xeon 800MHz Thermal Design Guide (attached)

"The hat spring on the secondary side of the baseboard provides the
necessary compressive load for the thermal interface material. The baseboard is intended to be
isolated such that the dynamic loads from the heatsink are transferred to the chassis pan via the stiff
screws and standoffs. This reduces the risk of package pullout and solder-joint failures."

Assume you're thinking along the lines of the blue circles, whereas the Asus X-Pad system (although it removes the spring) replaces it with a dense rubber pad (red rectangle 20 x 40mm) slightly taller than the chassis standoffs so than its under sufficient compression directly below the TIM when the heatsinks are fully screwed in. Also, I'd fix any bumpers to the plate rather than the motherboard and I'm not sure the adhesive on those 3M Scotch bumpers will appreciate the heat - both the fixing plate and the rubber pads from Asus come with pre-applied high performance 3M VHB adhesive.

skt604 pads.jpg

30266101.pdf

Thanks very much for the input! 😀

The CEK Spring stays then!

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-20, 07:51:

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2023-08-20, 03:43:

Wonder if replacing the hat spring with corner pads might cause issues...this is a quote from the Xeon 800MHz Thermal Design Gui […]
Show full quote

Irinikus wrote on 2023-08-19, 17:14:

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mou […]
Show full quote

I have ordered a 160mm x 100mm x 4.5mm plate of stainless steel into which the necessary holes will be drilled and tapped to mount the CPU coolers.

The only thing is I'd like to do away with the CEK springs and replace them with rubber feet if possible!

I'll also have to carefully trim the leads on the caps surrounding got CPU sockets, as they protrude about 2mm out of the back of the board. (The standard standoffs are 6mm, so this gives me a 1.5mm clearance from the 4.5 mm stainless steel plate.)

I'll apply a layer of Kapton tape to the upper surface of the stainless steel plate:

Any suggestion on adhesive form or rubber feet would be much appreciated!

This is what I'm thinking of using : (Attaching one to the underside of the board at each corner of the CPU sockets)

Wonder if replacing the hat spring with corner pads might cause issues...this is a quote from the Xeon 800MHz Thermal Design Guide (attached)

"The hat spring on the secondary side of the baseboard provides the
necessary compressive load for the thermal interface material. The baseboard is intended to be
isolated such that the dynamic loads from the heatsink are transferred to the chassis pan via the stiff
screws and standoffs. This reduces the risk of package pullout and solder-joint failures."

Assume you're thinking along the lines of the blue circles, whereas the Asus X-Pad system (although it removes the spring) replaces it with a dense rubber pad (red rectangle 20 x 40mm) slightly taller than the chassis standoffs so than its under sufficient compression directly below the TIM when the heatsinks are fully screwed in. Also, I'd fix any bumpers to the plate rather than the motherboard and I'm not sure the adhesive on those 3M Scotch bumpers will appreciate the heat - both the fixing plate and the rubber pads from Asus come with pre-applied high performance 3M VHB adhesive.

skt604 pads.jpg

30266101.pdf

Thanks very much for the input! 😀

The CEK Spring stays then!

Can't wait to see the result.
Very interesting !

Edit : this inspires me to improve a QuickN'Dirty© adapter i built to attach a zalman on a socket 423. 423 Share the same mounting holes with 603/604 i think.

acl wrote on 2023-08-21, 20:47:

Can't wait to see the result.
Very interesting !

Edit : this inspires me to improve a QuickN'Dirty© adapter i built to attach a zalman on a socket 423. 423 Share the same mounting holes with 603/604 i think.

Yeah, 1st gen Xeon (400 / 533MHz), 2nd gen Xeon (800MHz), 3rd gen Xeon (skt 771) & skt 423 all share common hole centres though they deal with different mounting systems & cpu + IHS heights...

If a board doesn't come with them, finding useable adapters is still possible, if a bit hit & miss...I like to look out for the old 1st gen Supermicro ones that pop up now and again (SKT-0120 or SKT-0120-P) as these can be used (as intended) here

but can also be easily modded to act as chassis tray backplates for 2nd gen as well. Biggest problem with the latter, as @Irinikus has found, is the sheer number of chassis tray cut-outs on modern ones.