VOGONS


The "best" sound card for dos

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First post, by luckybob

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My experience with sound hardware is what I would call "limited". However I do know, that a good sound card is well worth the money. I have a 386/40 setup for cga/vga dos games. And the last bit of hardware I need to get is a quality card. I have the "major" soundblaster cards.

awe64-gold
awe32
pnp16

a few others but those are the best? ones I have. I would think the 64 would be the obvious choice, but I don't see anyone else use them so I have to ask. Like most things, there is a point where a more expensive piece of hardware isnt worth the time/money to get for most people. Sound equipment seems to be one of those things where people lose their objectivity and think a $100 "oxygen free" gold power cable actually makes a difference.

I see a lot of people that seem to love roland products. (and gravis)

My questions are:

1: What is the ULTIMATE sound setup for a 386 & how much should I pay for it.

2: What is the SMART sound setup I should buy & for how much.

3: What is the MOST COMPATIBLE?

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 1 of 44, by sliderider

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There actually is no ultimate sound card. Too many competing standards back then. You would need at least two, possibly three if you wanted to drop some cash for a Roland SCC-1 or LAPC-1 card, to cover all the bases.

Reply 2 of 44, by sprcorreia

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sliderider wrote:

There actually is no ultimate sound card. Too many competing standards back then. You would need at least two, possibly three if you wanted to drop some cash for a Roland SCC-1 or LAPC-1 card, to cover all the bases.

And in your opinion those 3 are...?

Reply 3 of 44, by SquallStrife

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YMF719 is the popular choice at the moment. Near 100% SB compatibility, genuine OPL3, no hanging notes, DB header.

So you'd need that, and an intelligent MIDI interface if you wanted to play old Sierra circa-SCI0 games that require such an interface. MPU-401AT, MPU-IPC-T, SCC-1, LAPC-I, MM401, Music Quest, etc will fit the bill here.

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Reply 4 of 44, by luckybob

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I'm still getting laundry lists of things...

However I have noticed, both of you (2 out of 3) have an awe64 card. And then some sort of midi device. Is the midi bad on the awe64? is getting a mt32 worth it?

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 5 of 44, by sprcorreia

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luckybob wrote:

I'm still getting laundry lists of things...

However I have noticed, both of you (2 out of 3) have an awe64 card. And then some sort of midi device. Is the midi bad on the awe64? is getting a mt32 worth it?

Lets just say Roland is best. 😉

Getting the MT-32 depends on what you will play but if you can get it cheap, why not? However a General Midi synth is recommended.

Last edited by sprcorreia on 2012-08-09, 01:35. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 6 of 44, by DonutKing

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I bang on about the YMF719 a lot here, but I've tried a LOT of different sound cards and for your basic Sound Blaster compatible digital and OPL3 FM, and with a working MIDI port (no hanging note bug), its the best I've tried. It's compatibility seems equal to a real SB and has much better sound quality than all the Creative cards I've tried.

AWE64 is good (especially the Gold version with better SNR) and the MIDI port doesn't have the hanging note bug, but the CQM synth is a bit hit and miss.
Some games that were written for AWE do sound better with it (IMHO I think Tyrian sounds best on AWE) but trying to make the AWE work with games that only support General MIDI can be frustrating due to the drivers and often doesn't have good results.

The AWE sample set is a bit ordinary sometimes though. Some of the Doom songs sound terrible on an AWE for example.

Similar situation with the Gravis Ultrasound. Some games that were written for it sound best on it, and it has a large demoscene following as well. Again, trying to make it work with games that didn't support it natively can be frustrating and gives poor results. I also could never get the MIDI port to work on my GUS Classic under DOS.

If you play games that support MT32 natively then you really want to get a MT32 or compatible (CM32, LAPC-I etc) as there's really no substitute.

Once you get into MIDI it becomes even harder to choose. I like the Yamaha XG synths (like DB50XG/XR385), some people like the Roland synths like the Sound Canvas. Again, some games will sound better than others on other synths. Some people like the Ensoniq card's MIDI. There are plenty of others out there to try as well.

So basically there can't really be an objectively best sound card for DOS, there are too many options and people have different tastes, and it really depends on what you want to do.

I should point out that in the 90's I had an SB16 with those standard black plastic unamplified paper cone speakers , and was happy with it because I didn't know any better. 😀

1: What is the ULTIMATE sound setup for a 386 & how much should I pay for it.

In my 386 I have an MPU-401 card and a SB PRO. I'd happily swap the SB Pro for a YMF719 but I'm using a Sony CDROM drive with it and I'm too lazy to swap all those around. With the MPU401 I can swap between my MT32 and DB10XG (Yamaha GM synth) as required.
I have an Ensoniq S2000 and a GUS Classic to stick in there if required... but I haven't felt the need to yet.

2: What is the SMART sound setup I should buy & for how much.

Well... I'd say 'smartest' to do in terms of cost is to get a YMF719 and use it to run an SC55, or similar external synth.
SC55 can run in MT32 compatible mode (it won't sound as good as the real thing and you'll still need to patch your games) but will work reasonably well and has good GM sound, and you won't need to wrestle with drivers to make the sound work. SC55's can be had for about $100 and the YMF719 can be found for about $20 on ebay

There may be 'better' cards out there but they tend to cost a lot more. I think the above is a reasonable compromise.

You COULD get the XR385 for even cheaper but you'll need to wire up a cable and I believe there's a MIDI file you need to play to set it to MT32 compatible patch set. An external synth like the SC55 is more expensive but less hassle

3: What is the MOST COMPATIBLE?

Compatible with what? If you want MT32 compatibility you need an MT32 type device from Roland.
If you want SB Pro compatibility then get a SB Pro.
If you want Gravis compatibility then get a Gravis.

Again, I vote for the YMF719 for SB/OPL3 compatibility and with a working MIDI port you can use any external synth without too much fiddling. I've yet to run into a game that doesn't work with my YMF719.

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 7 of 44, by Anonymous Coward

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I second the YMF719. It sounds clean (hooked up to an amp), and works with all the SB Pro stuff I have thrown at it. You get 16-bit sound in windows, and WSS seems to work in DOS so long as your IRQs and DMAs are set right. My only real complaints are that the setup software is shit, and the DB header isn't in the right spot.

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V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 8 of 44, by MaxWar

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This is kind of the question the Grand OPL3 comparison run would like to answer.

The YMF719 sure is a popular choice, the card certainly seems to have it all as great SB clone. Unfortunately both 719 cards i have are faulty and would need some repair so i cant test them for myself yet.

I'd like to get a good recording of the YMF719 so i could compare it with other possible contenders.

I still have a lot of other cards to test though...
And there are some mystery cards in my pile for which i have some hope 😀

FM sound card comparison on a Grand Scale!!
The Grand OPL3 Comparison Run.

Reply 9 of 44, by luckybob

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Let me ransack my stockpile of sound cards and post up what I have. I'd pick the best one for the normal audio and then I'll probably buy a mt-32. I'm watching this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320958617470 but something just screams DON'T BUY! ITS A TRAP! What do I need to hook it up? an LAPC-I?

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 10 of 44, by Great Hierophant

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Duke Nukem II uses 8-bit to 3-bit or 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM capabilities of the Sound Blaster cards for sound effects that the YMF cards do not emulate.

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Reply 11 of 44, by MaxWar

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Great Hierophant wrote:

Duke Nukem II uses 8-bit to 3-bit or 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM capabilities of the Sound Blaster cards for sound effects that the YMF cards do not emulate.

Thats quite a deal breaker for me 🤣

FM sound card comparison on a Grand Scale!!
The Grand OPL3 Comparison Run.

Reply 12 of 44, by DonutKing

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What do I need to hook it up? an LAPC-I?

You just need a MIDI interface. You could use Sound Blaster 16 or newer but you won't get intelligent mode (games that require this won't work without a patch if one is available)

There are standalone ISA intelligent MIDI interfaces available, although they can be expensive. Such as the Roland MPU401, or compatibles from Music Quest and MidiMan.

I believe that some Ensoniq Sounscape cards have an intelligent MIDI port on them (or at least, one is emulated by the driver).

An LAPC-I is basically just the card version of the MT32 (although the LAPC-I is actually a bit advanced and has a few more sounds that some games may use). You can't use the MIDI port on an LAPC-I without an MCB-1 adapter which is even more rare than the LAPC-I card itself.

Duke Nukem II uses 8-bit to 3-bit or 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM capabilities of the Sound Blaster cards for sound effects that the YMF cards do not emulate.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that, will have to look into this. Can you give an example of particular sounds that are noticably affected?

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 13 of 44, by tincup

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I'll go out on a limb here and say a simple SB16 CT1750 [DSP 4.05 to avoid the handing note bug], and add on an NEC XR385 daughter card for improved midi. I recently installed this pair in a DOS retro rig and I'm pretty pleased. The card is not without it's faults - sound can be a bit crackly [a 'noisy' card in Vogons parlance I'm finding] and figuring out which were the proper drivers and how to install them, and how to register the card settings after installation, took a bit of trial and error on my part, but nothing crazy.

But in it's defense the combo is cheap, easy to track down, sounds okay at low to mid volume [I don't use headphones so I can't say anything there] with a fairly minimum amount of fuss and arcane skills required, and has so far been compatible with every DOS game I've tried. I'm new to the multi audio card scene so take this as a newbie recommendation..

Reply 14 of 44, by badmojo

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You won't have much use for general midi on a 386, so I'd recommend a Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 + an MT-32.

The only catch is tracking down an intelligent MPU-401 port to drive the MT-32. I tried the Soundscape option and it didn't work, but Roland or Music Quest MPU 401's come up on eBay from time to time, and if you're lucky they won't cost an arm and a leg.

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Reply 15 of 44, by luckybob

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Now that I sit here and think about it. I had a soyo 486 board that had a MIDI option for the COM2 header in the bios. I sold the board, but does such things exist or was I drinking?

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 16 of 44, by Great Hierophant

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DonutKing wrote:

Duke Nukem II uses 8-bit to 3-bit or 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM capabilities of the Sound Blaster cards for sound effects that the YMF cards do not emulate.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that, will have to look into this. Can you give an example of particular sounds that are noticably affected?

The issue does not affect all sound effects. If you blast a door in Episode 1, I recall that the effect is not heard.

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