VOGONS


It's 286 time!

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Reply 80 of 110, by Scali

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Caluser2000 wrote:

Looking at the ads some earlier 16-20s even sported intergrated IDE.

I'm not surprised. I have a Commodore and a Philips 8088 from 1987 which have IDE on board as well (and floppy).
These are of the XT-IDE variant of course, but still.
The Commodore has everything on board, floppy, graphics, printer, serial, even a mouse-port (Amiga-compatible).
The Philips only has a graphics card, the rest is on board as well.

My Commodore 386SX-16 dates from 1990 I believe, and it also had everything on board except for graphics.
I guess it was a good way for larger manufacturers to save cost. Better integration means lower production/assembly costs.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 81 of 110, by dr.zeissler

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Commodore and Atari used some know-how and existing Hardware of theire homecomputers and put them
into theire PC clones. e.g. the Atari PC 1? had the same gfx-chip onboard as the ST but I did not know if
there are any PC-programms that used these special features beside the standards (mda,cga, ega?)

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 82 of 110, by badmojo

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Some more developments here in 286 land.

I decided to try harder to get an IDE --> CF doo-dad working as a slave drive, because there was no reason it shouldn't. Initially I thought that perhaps the 4GB CF I was using might be too big - although in theory I should just be able to use as much as the BIOS could handle - but I had no more luck with a 64MB card. Finally it occurred to me that the existing master drive, a Seagate ST351AX, might not be playing nice, and some googling confirmed that it has a relatively complicated jumper arrangement which required me to specify that a slave was present (see diagram below).

Once I'd set that the CF slave was detected and works as you'd expect. I love the CF-as-a-slave setup because it lets me move all of the interesting stuff off the 25 year old mechanical drive, and back it up easily to my main PC (and then the cloud). It also meant that I didn't need the Gotek floppy emulator anymore, and I could go back to enjoying the sights and sounds of a real 3.5" floppy drive.

I've also been messing around with slow-down utilities and not being 100% happy with the results. This machine has a turbo function which under-clocks the CPU to 8MHz, and that in theory is the right speed for California Games, Double Dragon, etc. But it was still noticeably too fast. The solution was to add a wait state via the BIOS; now with the turbo off, SI reports that I'm bang on the speed of an 8MHz machine (where previously I was 1.5 points higher), and the afore mentioned games play as expected.

And finally I added in a MusicQuest MQX-32m, so that I can drive my MT-32 when the time comes.

Some pics of my adventures:

DSCN2597_zpspyxvrlwg.jpg

ST351%20Jumpers_zpsocqhvi18.png

DSCN2612_zpsxcyu2vbz.jpg

DSCN2618_zpsedqyz1ag.jpg

DSCN2633_zpszmillluo.jpg

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 83 of 110, by dr.zeissler

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Some of my 286 Machines:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/se … 157659570777142
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/se … 157657266763213

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 86 of 110, by dr.zeissler

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I love the 286 machines. My main Tower-AT has EGA-Onboard and it is great!
https://www.youtube.com/user/drzeissler/videos

I have 4 machines of that type. They have a great design and work really
fast for a 286!

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 88 of 110, by badmojo

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computergeek92 wrote:

I thought that the 286 computers were unpopular due to the real/protected mode bug.

It wasn't a bug, the 286 just didn't implement protected mode as well as the 386. They were a very popular and power chip in their day, pre-Windows.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 89 of 110, by Scali

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386 protected mode is a completely different protected mode from 286 protected mode.
The 'bug' is not really a bug, but a poor design choice. Apparently Intel did not consider the possibility that people wanted to switch between real and protected mode, so they can run legacy software.

They completely redesigned it for the 386, introducing the v86 mode, which worked great for running legacy software in a 16-bit virtual machine 'sandbox' environment.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 91 of 110, by carlostex

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Scali wrote:

386 protected mode is a completely different protected mode from 286 protected mode.
The 'bug' is not really a bug, but a poor design choice. Apparently Intel did not consider the possibility that people wanted to switch between real and protected mode, so they can run legacy software.

They completely redesigned it for the 386, introducing the v86 mode, which worked great for running legacy software in a 16-bit virtual machine 'sandbox' environment.

Today there's a somewhat similar caveat, when in long mode, 16bit real mode applications cannot be run.

Reply 92 of 110, by Caluser2000

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Good to see you got it sorted RTFM has a lot going for it.

computergeek92 wrote:

I thought that the 286 computers were unpopular due to the real/protected mode bug.

I had a nice run out of my original 286/16 clone setup. Some of the OEM systems had a few extra tweaks. I'm pleasently surprised how well my current 286/12 runs.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 93 of 110, by Scali

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I think the 286 was mainly unpopular because of bad timing.
That is, when they were introduced, they were high-end and expensive.
By the time prices came down and people were ready to upgrade from 8088-based machines, Intel came up with the 386SX.
Back in the day quite a few of my friends had a 386SX-16, as did I. Only one of my friends had a 286-16.
Performance-wise they were about equal, then again, I don't think the 386SX systems were more expensive either. At the very least, they were considered better value for money, because of their ability to run 32-bit software.
So the 386SX hit a certain sweet-spot in the market, preventing the 286 from ever really going mainstream.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 94 of 110, by oerk

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dr.zeissler wrote:

Wow, Schneider really had some interesting and good-looking designs back then!

Reply 97 of 110, by dr.zeissler

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/22 … 57657434520533/

LEFT: Main RetroPC
Schneider Tower AT M(EGA) Limited
- 286@10Mhz 2MB Ram (added SIM-Sockets on the CPU-Board)
- EGA Gemini VC001 max. 800x600@16colors drivers: http://greyghost.mooo.com/eg3000/EG-3000.zip
- FPU 80287/8 (i387 core)
- ISA Bustek SCSI Controller 2GB IBM DCAS
- ISA CT1350b
- ISA MPU-401
- ISA ETHERLINK III
- 1,44MB Floppy

RIGHT:
Schneider Tower System 70 386sx16/VGA Onboard...

Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 98 of 110, by Caluser2000

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Nice.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 99 of 110, by dr.zeissler

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dr.zeissler wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/22 … 57657434520533/ […]
Show full quote

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/22 … 57657434520533/

LEFT: Main RetroPC
Schneider Tower AT M(EGA) Limited
- 286@10Mhz 2MB Ram (added SIM-Sockets on the CPU-Board)
- EGA Gemini VC001 max. 800x600@16colors drivers: http://greyghost.mooo.com/eg3000/EG-3000.zip
- FPU 80287/8 (i387 core)
- ISA Bustek SCSI Controller 2GB IBM DCAS
- ISA CT1350b
- ISA MPU-401
- ISA ETHERLINK III
- 1,44MB Floppy
...

The idea is a slideshow with demoscene-effects to run on this machine.

conception:
***testing for real tower-at with multiscan-hires-display", if not only 640x350 possible***
- intro-logo "schneider" ega-hires 640x350@16 "thank you for using a real tower-at 😀 "
- old-skool demo-effects like:copper-bars like "cgademo" but in hires 640x350 if possible; horizontal or vertical scroller (using the ega-hardwarescrolling/panning)
- mod-music with a player that works with 10mhz (like glx)
- changing up to 800x600 or 640x480@16 (Multisync required)
- using the code for the 64colors at once and if possible in hires 800x600 @64colors (currently search for a pictures that fits in that)

Don't know if things are possible at the same time (music/effects). If not, then one thing after the other.

I think, I will need about 3 years for that...perhaps longer, but it would be really nice.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines