Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

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Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby nesvariigi » 2019-8-14 @ 20:04

dgVoodoo2 gives me white textures in 16-bit mode. It works fine with 32-bit +dithering, but I think it's not quite the same as 16-bit + dithering. So, the question is, am I right that 32-bit + dithering ≠ 16-bit + dithering and whats the point of applying dithering over 32-bit mode? And how to get Mafia to work in 16-bit mode properly? Without dgVoodoo2 16-bit mode works fine, but then I can't get that lovely ordered4x4 dithering. I want to create retro look (low res + 16-bit dithering + no texture filtering). Thanks in advance.
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby Dege » 2019-8-15 @ 17:07

nesvariigi wrote:am I right that 32-bit + dithering ≠ 16-bit + dithering and whats the point of applying dithering over 32-bit mode?

dgVoodoo always renders in (at least) 32 bit internally so you'll get the same result.
Dithering with ordered2x2 or ordered4x4 are designed to get result as if the rendering were happening in 16 bit mode.
Forcing dithering on 32 bit rendering (selected in a game) is just an extra. You can look how the game would look if it used 16 bit rendering with dithering.

nesvariigi wrote:And how to get Mafia to work in 16-bit mode properly?

What do you get when you choose the WARP output in dgVoodoo?
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby nesvariigi » 2019-8-15 @ 22:45

With WARP everything works correctly (except for poor performance & windowed).

Dege wrote:dgVoodoo always renders in (at least) 32 bit internally so you'll get the same result.


But, it's not the same result.

16bit + ordered4x4 (WARP)(doesn't dgVoodoo dither banding thats baked into textures?)
16bit ordered4x4 warp mafia.png


Dege wrote:Forcing dithering on 32 bit rendering (selected in a game) is just an extra. You can look how the game would look if it used 16 bit rendering with dithering.


32bit + ordered4x4 (ok, if this is "game would look if it used 16 bit rendering with dithering", then what the hell is that previous image? 256+dithering? :D)
32bit ordered4x4 mafia.png


I want that 16bit + ordered4x4, but in non-WARP I get this
16bit ordered4x4 mafia.png


P.S. On the same note, I fail to understand how there can be dithering and banding at the same time. I am so confused.
ordered4x4 banding KOTR.png
king of the road
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby Dege » 2019-8-18 @ 14:37

nesvariigi wrote:With WARP everything works correctly (except for poor performance & windowed).

What videocard do you have?

nesvariigi wrote:But, it's not the same result.16bit + ordered4x4 (WARP)(doesn't dgVoodoo dither banding thats baked into textures?)

Ok, you're right. I forgot about the fact that if textures are also 16 bit then indeed there is difference because quality loss comes from the textures themselves even with 32 bit rendering.
Dithering isn't baked into the textures. It's a postprocess step at the end of the frame on the final image.

nesvariigi wrote:P.S. On the same note, I fail to understand how there can be dithering and banding at the same time. I am so confused.

Bands are too large in extent to suppress their presence with a little 4x4 dither-matrix.
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby nesvariigi » 2019-8-18 @ 23:51

Dege wrote:What videocard do you have?

xfx rx 480 gtr black edition
Dege wrote:if textures are also 16 bit then indeed there is difference because quality loss comes from the textures themselves

Can't dgVoodoo fix that with dithering?
Last edited by nesvariigi on 2019-8-19 @ 00:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby dirkmirk » 2019-8-19 @ 00:09

Is this an experiment?

Second question if its not... DO you plan on playing the game through with a Voodoo?

Closing thoughts, I dont see the point playing old games with sh!thouse hardware, if theirs a better option its much more enjoyable, Modern hardware with Full HD/4K/16X Anti-aliasing etc, cant do that with all games of course like older dos games etc, I always look to play games with the best of whats available, just downloading system shock from GOG craploads better than a tradtional dos system.
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby nesvariigi » 2019-8-19 @ 00:28

.
Last edited by nesvariigi on 2019-8-19 @ 11:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mafia 16-bit + dithering.

Postby dirkmirk » 2019-8-19 @ 00:33

I know what your talking about as I like to push my old 486s to the max, I was pleasantly surprised how well TIE FIGHTER works on a am5x86-160 at 640x480, I could see myself playing that game through, back in the day my 386sx-33 got me through on lowest settings and was a slideshow, a dx-40 is better but nothing like the supercharged 486.

Quake is another game that never really gelled with me, the latest aftermarket graphic renders like they used in Doom3, 1920X1200 full AA gave it a new lease and fast paced action feels like a totally new game.

These days for me its an experiment unless theirs a better option, Mafia is one of my all time favourite games and theirs no way I'd play on anything less than the best.

I first played mafia with a duron 1000/voodoo 3 and that was bad enough, a year later I had a athlon 1800XP with ti4200 and I still wanted for more, finally a Geforce 6800 with an overclocked barton 2500XP @ 3200 speeds gave me what the game was capable of, these days If it runs on windows 10 im playing that game absolutely maxed out.

SO yeah I dont get it, sorry...
Last edited by dirkmirk on 2019-8-19 @ 01:10, edited 1 time in total.
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